Est. 1998 — 27 years of woodworking knowledge
Scratches after Tung Oil
Dennis J. Gooding
>Does anyone have a current home address and/or email address for Richard Raffan? Thanks in advance. Dennis
Remove "2" from email address to respond.
Unicorn go round, or, it works in turning as well
Leo Cuellar
As for turning, it was a comment from Mike Stafford commenting on Richard Raffan:
"Richard sees no advantage to negative rake scrapers and is not concerned one iota about a burr. As a matter of a fact he routinely hones the top and side surfaces of his scrapers with a diamond hone and achieves remarkably smooth surfaces. Perhaps the only time he has a burr is when it is fresh off the grinder and after that he hones. "
"The burr lasts a very short amount of time while the sharp clean intersection of the two adjacent surfaces cut very well for a long time. The thin wispy shavings coming of a honed scraper sometimes amaze me." 7/13/2012, 9:22 am
http://www.woodcentral.com/woodworking/forum/archives_turning.pl/bid/2001/md/read/id/456940/sbj/negative-rake-scraper-angles/
Being me, I had to take it one step further:
"I took one of my scrapers to about a 70 degree angle then polished the face and top. I then ran the tool on both sides with red rouge on the buffer. It did not feel particularly sharp with the fingernail test, no burr. Man does that baby cut!" 7/14/2012, 4:15 pm
http://www.woodcentral.com/woodworking/forum/archives_turning.pl/bid/2001/md/read/id/456970/sbj/holy-cow-mike/
I've been watching these exchanges with great interest and some small amusement. I greatly respect and appreciate those of you have the time & patience to get into the nitty gritty detail of the wherefore & why. While I certainly didn't invent buffing, (I held my tongue because it would have been heresy at the time to mention it), I've been doing it for many years on chisels and plane blades because of just plain laziness. I'm guessing I picked up this habit (of buffing) after an exchange with David Barnett (may he rest in peace).
Re: Consumables vs skilled labor
TomD
I went to gold beach in OR one summer around 1990, a friend of mine there was friends with the local Myrtlewood turner in town. He had heard it was wrong to scrape bowls, so since I had pretty much mastered all the Richard Raffan and Del Stubbs moves, I was detailed off to give him a demo. I didn't have any of my own tools, and his lathe was a strange set-up. I don't recall how well I did in the difficult conditions, but do remember there were some points of tear-out in my hollowing, these would require more time and consumables, even though I had achieved a result that had an overall better finish. I don't really recall why I couldn't shear scrape it. The pro could crank these pieces up to some humming speed, wiggle his scraper around, hit it with sandpaper, he was done. This did require him to have very simplified forms, but basically people came to his shop, looked at what he had for sale. If they wanted a bowl, it was to have some myrtlewood to take back home with them, put some candy in, etc... It would probably have sold fewer bows if they were many of the things then popular, like super thin, detailed, too narrow in the base, etc... When it came to making pieces that looked like they could be packed out of snow, his method was certainly excellent.
I was certainly impressed to meet a guy who would even investigate the issue, and was very impressed with what I learned.
But the point is that it is pretty hard to dismiss what people know. A lot of it starts with the clients, and in the US and Canada, that doesn't leave you much to work with in many parts of the country. If one wants to do good work, choice of zipcode is pretty important.
Re: Leg vise accessories
don stephan
Always a pleasure following another from Down Under (Richard Raffan is my favorite for turning instruction). Could you start incorporating some "Down Under" talk - expressions - to keep us on our toes?
Re: Grinder parts
TomD
Yeah, partly it is the machine, partly it is the belt, and partly it is how powerful and adjustable the motor is. 3hp is a nice amount. It's like wood lathes. I have the big union graduate, bowl lathe that Richard Raffan had in his early videos. It is specked with a 3/4 hp motor. 22 inch capacity. Today a lathe like that would be 3-5hp. And in both cases the extra horse power isn't scary as it can be on a table saw. The really big grinders aren't all that dangerous, the main issue are fire, air, and tiny particles that may get into the eyes, therefore spaceman suits, or Racals. I am not sure the particles are all that dangerous to the eyes, but you need to keep your MRI potential open if that maters to you.
Re: How to keep Sugar Maple white?
Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia) When does Derek get to go on a fishing trip, spend a weekend with Richard Raffan, learn to play harmonica, . . .?
You just finished the all-time greatest gift for the Boss, then were repainting the house. Now already you have to start cabinet work?
Thanks for the sentiments, Don. But please don't suggest to my wife that she should go easy on me here. More projects mean more time building, and more projects can mean tools! I've already scored a Domino machine for the Kitchen! (Well, come on, 25 doors to do .. !).
If I play my cards right I can do that workshop with Richard ("Poor Dear .. you really need to get away from all that hard work ..").
As for the harmonica ... did I ever tell you the story about my classical guitar teacher, who would openly weep when he saw me walk into his class? It was not encouraging.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Re: How to keep Sugar Maple white?
don stephan
You just finished the all-time greatest gift for the Boss, then were repainting the house. Now already you have to start cabinet work?
When does Derek get to go on a fishing trip, spend a weekend with Richard Raffan, learn to play harmonica, . . .?
Re: The Butler's Desk - Hikido
TomD
That might still fall into some kind of fake brutalism. On a standard dovetail, and I keep in mind your joinery often is brilliantly far from standard, the back of the front has to make clean contact with the sides which means co-planar at contact which means the try plane marks are actually an additional complication, though I can see how they could be automated with a hand plane routine. And I guess if you are after interest as opposed to pretending to be a vulgarian, then it is gloriously what it is.
Richard Raffan emphasized that a bowl ought to be thinner down the sides than at the edge or at the bottom, because it felt better in the hand, and maybe had better balance as a bowl. I tried a few around the time I ran out of space for my production. I think he may be right. I wonder what the similar deal would be with a drawer. What more can one build into a drawer to make it longer lasting and comfortable, in the hand a complete experience. Some try plane ripples might well do that, or maybe something similar to the raffan tapers. Lots to play with, but boat season is here...
Re: It's the wood
TomD
"My question is, what is the experience with these finishes as they age? The question is relevant because these minimalist finishes are becoming poplar as more people become skilled at planing and gurus advocate them"
Is that true, much of the skill in planing is not at that level, and to really do it right, one needs to blend in a variety of surfaces, like Krenov's file work. I haven't observed this trend, but then I gave up buying any woodworking magazines a long time ago.
Krenov carefully selected his woods, and largely absent among them were the majority of woods we normally use, the Walnuts, cherries, mahoganies, and American oaks. I used to have around a small offcut of maple that I had hand planed, and that had no finish, it was not a special piece, just beautiful tan ink lines and shades of cream. It did not require any finish. I also had a jar of Macasar ebony shaving as an ornament. Stuff like the pegs on violins made of ebony can just be buffed, as can fingerboards, though they sell oils for those, I don't use them.
I have a Jara bowl that Richard Raffan sold me, and it had the usual Raffan finish of oil and wax, it looks fine 20 years later. I must say, my exploits with oily rags and wax, are less ideal in the main.
Softwoods can be planed, and they will glisten or look like polished bone, they do not require finish, but then can end up grimy.
Another major factor is one's objectives, while high gloss finishes can be both necessary, or beautiful, they do not look natural. One has to think of wood in a different way for different finishes. Most of us accept that a hand worn antique can be beautiful and shouldn't be stripped and shot with conversion lacquer, but we can't accept the finish that starts out as that piece did a few hundred years before, in every case.
I would be curious to know how Krenov finished his marketry pieces. He was off on a different tangent there, and I would be a little surprised if he hadn't adapted his finishes. Anyone know?
Re: On Grinding - Dry Vs. Wet
Charles Stanford
Interesting, I suppose, theoretically at least. Most won't have a facility for both types for grinding, it's usually a one or the other proposition (or is it? maybe not these days!). I doubt that those who own Tormeks are worried about leaving a few minutes on the table assuming dry grinding is faster, which it probably is. What I don't like about Tormeks is the diameter of the wheel, they produce too shallow a hollow for regular Stanley/Record plane irons. A gradual hollow is nice for turning tools, I suppose, but HSS is difficult to blue so there's no real need for slower, wet grinding. One can just dry grind on a large wheel all the way to the edge a la Richard Raffan.
Otherwise, being able to grind to the edge with virtually no risk is moot the vast majority of time since there is only a need to refresh the built-in jig, the hollow and you don't need to go all the way to the edge to do this (that wouldn't be a refreshment but a reshaping). And grinding to the edge is not terrible risky with a freshly dressed dry wheel, a dash pot, and a light touch. The risk of burning steel is vastly overblown.
It's always a good idea to wear eye protection when running any kind of grinder and I wouldn't walk into a woodshop without leather steel-toe boots or leather steel-toe shoes.
Re: Nothing new though...
TomD
These ideas have been around as long as I can remember. Richard Raffan also talked about this. He claimed all (most?) wood turns black eventually, and all you have is form. I think it is sorta like furniture in general, where the skill side is moeso in the old stuff. I love Bill Jone's work, as far as seeing some serious skill at a professional level.
I use turned pens, but I am not sure most of them even come up to the level of a Bic 4 colour. There is a whole pen thing, with magazines, making pens is high art, but the wood turning shop pens don't really succeed on any level, mechanically, hand appeal, or art. Which is why it is amazing when someone actually pulls it off. Occasionally one sees a surprise.
Re: Minimalist finishing is for people w/o childre
TomD
Typical overstatement. You are right about a number of things, from people's reasons for using certain products, skills, and also durability. But you are wrong on look, people can tell the difference in look and feel, some times pro or con. To me the biggest disadvantage to the super chemicals is the mess one is left with when they do break down. Natural materials often have certain packages of advantages, edibility, safety, ease of application, ease of refreshing, superior look, application in a dust free environment. Goes for natural glues in somewhat different form.
Another preference is people actually love some of these materials. I remember once trying bees wax as fixed center wax on a turning. It ran the length of the job, and did not smoke or require any more material be added. I had some lattest super chemical grease, and 10 dollars a 4 ounce cup, and it smoked out after a few minutes, just hard to hate bees wax. Certain materials are just kind. Yes I am talking upsell!
On skill I know what you mean, but mastering natural materials is a mixed bag. I think it is a lot easier to shoot just about anything than French Polish. And it is many times more work to FP, and it is more trouble locating all the weird materials. Then you move on to the next, and the next. Once you can shoot you can shoot. Bikes, tables you name it. The only difficult part is the clean-up. Also, it is pretty easy to fix those finishes. The vary first table I made to sell, had a urethane finish on it, for the out of doors. I painted it on, and I rubbed it out. I could have sprayed it if I had had spray. Pretty foolproof.
Now wax is a funny one. I am sorta with you on it, but then you see an English carpenter do it, or Richard Raffan, and in ten seconds he gets a great look, it is ready to go directly to sale. I bought stuff at one of his demos right off the lathe. It still looks fine 20 years later. I don't dust it enough. It is too fancy to eat out of, but I wouldn't be scared to. So how easy it that? Dollops to dollars in a second flat satisfied customers, looks like wood. Holds up for ever, diswasher safe. I have done many pieces that way myself, but he gets just the right touch. Not sticky, etc...
Re: an alternative sharpening approa, not jig-free
TomD
That isn't jig free, probably nothing is. But Using an adjustable tool rest is as much a jig as anything. I just place my fingers on the tool rest balance the tool on top, and grind away. I learned this method from turning, back when Richard Raffan was the dude. He sharpened like that, and it gives great flexibility. It is basically the analog to turning, where you rest a tool on a rest, not a ramp, and move it all over the place, taking cuts at all sorts of angles. The only difference is that in sharpening the tool gets cut.
Often I don't even bother with the fingers on the rest. and just approach the spinning blade. The key is a very gentle approach to the abrasive so you can have it in full contact with "no" cutting occurring. This allows you to find the angle before the cutting starts, and then burn some metal.
More or less at random here is a guy who know how to grind:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt5cR7LQOA0
Re: Way-y-y OT--What happened to pattern-making
ThomD
>Interesting idea. I remember Richard Raffan writting passionately about the fact that far too much effort is spent in WT on wood look, and very little on the form. So on the positive, your kind of file would allow people to study form, or on the other hand people might not care. Sounds like a strange thing to say, people are generally aware of the kinds of shape that are being made, but there are huge blind spots also.
Where it would be interesting would be to see the actual wall thickness. Not just how fat or thin, but the kind of relationship between the inside and the outside, and the degree to which that shape is followed through. Right now a lot of that, particularly with hollow forms is implied by the viewer. An accurate read would be quite revealing, and could even become part of the presentation. You could look at the hollow form but also see a 3D or 3 view of the actual shape. Much of the hobbie of woodturning is pretty static about developing beyond a certain point, so it isn't clear to me people really want to go there.
Re: Grinding wheels
thomd
>Good that you are all right!
I learned to grind from one of Richard Raffan's early videos, and he grinds mostly freehand, and one needs to be to the side to see the bevel contact. An advantage is that one is less likely to be hit with junk should the stone break. Something I keep in mind when using good rests etc... where the rest does the alignment but often one stands right in front of the grinder.
Re: Tool Rest for Grinders (hand or power)
thomd [email protected]
>95% of the time I use Richard Raffan's tool rest which is two fingers plonked on any old post in front of the grinder. One stands to the side so as to see that the bevel is rubbing. The advantages to this method are: Easy to adapt to tools with different angles, like hand made chsiels with different face angles; easy to adapt to weird shaped tools for carving and turning; and it keeps you to the side where an exploding wheel probably won't get your face. Helps a person develop some freehand grinding chops which will help over the years.
Re: Huge Gloat!
john jesseph
>Phenomenal! What are you doing with Drew? I bet Richard Raffan could teach you to turn out some fine Windsor turnings in a hurry, hope you share the info!!
Have fun, would be interesting to hear how things go...
John Jesseph
Huge Gloat!
David Hammond, in Powder Springs GA
>I leave tomorrow morning on an 8:15am flight for Hampton, New Hampshire and the famed Windsor Institute run by Michael Dunbar � woohoooo! I�m actually going to be there for two weeks, beginning with the Sack Back Windsor, then the second week I�ll learn to build the NYC Bow Back Side chair. I really can�t believe I�m getting to do this, but a very gracious gentleman I work for has agreed to let me study under Mike Dunbar for three weeks, with Drew Langsner for a week, with a professional Photographer at John Campbell, and for an entire week with Richard Raffan!!! Life has been so busy and crazy that I�ve hardly had time to even check in here lately, but I�ll check in when I get back with pictures of my adventures.
See you folks in two weeks!
David
Re: How Does Making Shavings Dull a Blade?
John K Jordan
Good question!
My understanding of this: If the edge was only rubbing the bevel at the "existing" angle (with a zero clearance angle) it wouldn't cut at all. To cut needs a (small) positive clearance angle, at least 2-deg or so, which tilts the cutting edge just the right amount into the wood to cut the fibers. IMO, "rubbing the bevel" is mostly a myth, but taught to beginners to keep them from suddenly digging the cutting edge into the wood with disastrous effect. I teach this to beginning skew students too but only as a way to apply the tool safely before adjusting it to make it cut.
If a rounded piece were turning in reverse, yes, honing may happen. But with cutting, the sharp edge is constantly being abraded by being violently jammed into the fibers (on a microscopic scale) to tear them apart and make the shaving. Since wood often contains silica and a variety of extractives it can be quite abrasive. I've looked at a freshly honed edge under the microscope and could see the effects of abrasion with just a short use on the lathe.
The best discussion of all this I've seen is in Mike Darlow's book "Fundamentals of Woodturning." It's chock full of diagrams and photos and explanations. For example, this photo on the first page of chapter 4, "Cutting and Tools" (I don't think Mike would mind me posting a sample!):
This is the first in a series of much higher magnification photos on the subsequent pages that well show the effects of various clearance angles, accompanied by excellent descriptions and diagrams.
I highly recommend this book for the reader and the thinking person. It may be a bit too technical for the show-me-a-quick-video generation! I basically learned woodturning from this book and from "Turning Wood" by Richard Raffan. I still refer to these books more than any of the others on my shelves.
(If you don't have it, do you want to borrow a copy these or at least Darlow's? I keep an extra copy of each here to loan to students. I could send it with John W. when I see him tomorrow if you are close enough to him to get it from him easily.)
Re: Good call...
TomD
As a frequent user of 2 pack finishes, Bill, they would seem to be perfect for this use. You get hard, and very resistant to any solvents, and you probably don't get that result you get with walnut that shows a ton of end grain where the different absorption levels leave a very muddy look.
I have never used Waterlox, so doubtless a good choice also, based on all the replies. I could see almost anything working pretty well, with the correct application. Application is the biggie, and there are work arounds for most products.
The one overlooked category is all the different preparations and techniques specifically for turnings, since once mounted on your lathe (or drill motor) there are a ton of materials that provide good, quick, relatively permanent finishes. I have a bowl that Richard Raffan made, my only piece by another maker, and he finishes everything, it seems, with wax and non-drying oil. What a mess that approach should be. But in his hands, the results are still great decades later.
Re: West Australian Sheoak
Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)
Richard Raffan lives in Canberra, which lies in the ACT (Australian Capital Territory), the capital of Australia. This is the Eastern side of Oz. Canberra, by coincidence, borders on the Kosciuszko National Park. No doubt, the Sheoak Richard used comes from this area.
The Sheoak on the Eastern seaboard is darker than than in Western Australia. I think the stuff we get here has a finer fleck and is more delicate looking. My reference totally (although I would kill to have a piece of Richard's work. Lucky you!).
Here are two pieces of mine in WA Sheoak. You can see how light it is (noting that it can darken over time):
A lapdesk ...
... and a bridle plough plane ...
Regards from Perth
Derek
Re: Timbers of Australia (videos)
John McGaw
There are so many woods in Oz that are almost never seen outside its borders. I'm sitting here beside a largish (18", probably the throw of his lathe) platter made by Richard Raffan from Tasmanian Sassafras (he spelled it as Sassafrass but my spell checker objects). This is probably the only piece of this wood within 500 miles of my location -- maybe more. I've also got a couple of other pieces of his, one is a screw-lid box in the shape of an acorn made of She Oak, a slightly more well known Aussie wood, and somewhere or other there is a box of IIRC Tasmanian Horizontal Scrub which is fascinating if or nothing else than the name. I can't locate it at the moment but it must be here somewhere -- things tend to get jumbled after a couple of moves.
Re: Are woodworking books obsolete?
Don Stephan
Few Internet videos seem to have the planning, preparation and thought I find in the woodworking books I own and occasionally refer back to. Bob Lang's experience is very disappointing, but in general I've never purchased a woodworking book without previewing a copy from the local public library or seeing positive reviews from trusted people. I use one of Bruce Hoadley's books several times a month, same with Richard Raffan's books; Jeff Jewitt and John Kassay several times a year.
Won't await reviews of Richard Jones (Sgian Dubh) book though - his many posts over the years, especially those on drawer slips, have shown clarity and organization that justify an immediate purchase.
To read or not to read
John K Jordan
Few seem to read these days but some of us do. I once had a supervisor who at 40 years old had NEVER read a single book all the way through. Amazing.
Based on my wife's current count, she estimates she will read around 75 books this year. I read every day. I read a lot of fiction on my Kindles but I prefer paper for books with information: woodturning, flatwood, tools, methods, wood ID, trees, mushrooms, beekeeping, machining, welding, electronics, computer graphics, livestock care, spinning wheels, vehicle maintenance, etc. I've bought three real books from Amazon in the last couple of weeks even though they are more expensive than ebooks.
I continue to build my library - fortunately I added an office in my new shop so most of the books are in bookcases there. Some, in particular several on woodturning, are so useful I have two copies so I can lend one to others.
To me a book is so much more useful than a DVD or a bunch of YouTube videos. The information contained in just one of Richard Raffan's woodturning books would probably fill 100 hours of video. Books can present the how and the why as well as alternatives, while even a good youtube video almost always just shows you the how and usually just one method.
I can't underline passages in a video or ebook, write notes in the margins, and mark the pages with real post-it notes so I can instantly flip to passages a year from now. I can't flip between two passages in the same or different DVDs or even ebooks. It is difficult to even scan the titles as you can easily do on a book shelf.
I love my Kindles (I have four) but can take a book anywhere and "access" it without an internet connection and charged batteries.
On-line content is amazing and wonderful, instant, inclusive. But it is indeed often shallow. Just digging through the mass of information can be a huge effort. As for youtube, it is often difficult to find useful information in the sea of videos by beginners and poor craftsmen. I very seldom view youtube videos any more unless one comes recommended by someone I trust.
Although I purchased them, I don't really own any of the ebooks on my Kindle. I can't easily lend them or give them to friends. When I'm gone I guess they are all gone too, a sort of digital book burning.
JKJ
Re: Best Beginner Woodturning Book
John K Jordan
I learned woodturning from two books:
"Turning Wood" by Richard Raffan
https://www.amazon.com/Turning-Wood-Richard-Raffan/dp/156158956X
and
"Fundamentals of Woodturning" by Mike Darlow.
https://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-Woodturning-Darlows-Mike-Darlow/dp/1565233557
There are others that are good but these two are still my favorite. I periodically go back and re-read sections. I bought extra copies so I could loan them out.
JKJ