Unicorn go round, or, it works in turning as well

David Barnett

David Weaver

I never knew what happened with David but greatly greatly enjoyed any discussion with him

I've been rounding over the edges on a skew (I don't turn often) for quite some time so that the edges last, and polishing them on a finish stone (so that the cut they leave is clean).

I never thought until this came along to buff them, though.

In the turning community, it may be frowned upon, but for someone who turns as little as I do, it makes more sense to grind the tools and then work the edges with stones like any other chisel to prevent a large burr from forming.

Your accounting of what a scraper does when the edge is polished is something I'm inclined to try now. I never liked how any of them worked with a regular ground or tooled edge, even if that was turned up into a burr on purpose, the burr was coarse. The buffer is probably just the thing to make it work like a finishing tool.

Thanks!

Re: David Barnett

Warren in Lancaster, PA

David Barnett had a debilitating stroke in 2015 and died a few months later. He was 63. For some reason he deleted many of his posts on this forum.

Some wood sculptors buff their tools; carvers generally not.

Thanks for information on David

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

I used to correspond with him until he suddenly vanished. Never knew what happened. He was a wealth of useful information. Steered me to a hand lens I cherish.

The effect of buffing like this...

David Weaver

..I don't know many professional carvers. As in people who carve for a living, do nothing else (no classes, etc) and who don't have supplemental income or another job.

The only two I've seen do prolific amounts of carving (randall rosenthal and mark yundt) both mentioned long ago that they use a buffer. Randall mentioned that he uses only a buffer, and referred to it as being lazy.

Hasluck's book on carving refers to using an emery charged strop instead of a finish stone if cost is an issue (this is kind of the same thing as we are doing, setting up geometry with a stone and then finishing an edge with rounding).

I never liked full-bevel sharpening with a buffer, but have seen randall's tools and the bevels are relatively long. One would also assume that more than one wheel is used (a coarser harder wheel and a fine one, though a felt wheel with compound could be used by itself on pushed carving tools if it was used often).

My point is, I assume that you carve or have carved professionally, and you mention using slip stones. I have never seen another professional carver online (including those who carve as their sole means of making a living) who doesn't use a buffer or rotating wheel of some type at least sometimes.

For folks who use rotating wheels entirely, I have seen much longer primary bevels, presumably to compensate for the rounding that occurs when using a buffer or felt to do everything.

After coming up with the methods described lately, I went around and looked at the machines sold to carvers figuring they were doing what we're discussing. I tried to dicker with woodcraft about a koch machine (they're clearancing them but pretty much at normal price, and with little explanation). I ultimately didn't buy one, but I think they marketed them wrong (koch), as the focus is on the "magic compound" that goes on the wheels whereas an explanation of what the machine was doing probably would've invited more buyers. What I see is this after looking at the specs. The machine has two to four wheels. The coarse wheels are hard, the fine wheels are softer felt.

I've had bad luck with hard felt on a grinder - it's too aggressive. Further reading with the koch machine finds that the wheels are only 4 inches in diameter and they run only at 1350 rpm. This makes more sense to me.

I am not fully familiar with what else is out there, but quite often see a set of felt wheels on a long arbor in the background of carver's photos. What's unknown is just how professional they are. At least two are making a living from their work.

Years ago, I saw you mention something along the lines of "I don't know anyone who doesn't sharpen carving tools with slips". I haven't exactly thought about that often, and you may have said something slightly different than that, but it was enough for me to remember because randall's suggestion of only buffs was a contrast to it, and mark yundt referred to carving only the final profile (he uses a power carver to waste wood from the initial work. What I see of what he's doing is generally not elements in furniture, but instead large carvings where the entire piece is carved. That could have changed, but he is prolific).

I wonder if the case for stones and not buffs in your area is exclusive to the area both because of the nature of what's being carved, and due to the fact that some of the carvers must be amish or mennonite (though there wouldn't be a problem with a mennonite carver using a powered buff as far as I know).

Re: David Barnett

Steve Voigt

Thanks for that info, Warren. I'm sorry to hear it. I sent David an email after his stroke but never heard back; I guess this explains why. He was an incredibly knowledgeable guy and I learned a lot from his posts.

Slips

Paul in NJ

David,

I don't know how you would sharpen or buff the in-cannel side of veiners or tighter radii gouges without slips. I also think it would take some practice with the buffer to not round over the corners of the tools.

regards,

Paul Dzioba

Re: The effect of buffing like this...

Mike In Los Angeles

I saw the long bevels and thought it was in service of a shallow bevel, then I was convinced it was to accommodate a rounded edge. Watching Phil Lowe and Chris Pye, it seems more like the approach is to grind a bevel that presents the chisel to the work at a happy angle, and form a bevel on the face side to get the final bevel angle.

I’m a total novice carver (if that) but that’s what I observed.

Re: Slips

Leo Cuellar

In a lot of older carving books I've seen a shaped wheel setup, possibly hard felt or leather or shaped stacked hardboard/masonite charged with the buffing compound. An assortment of profiles, v's, half rounds, flutes, and whatever profiles fit your tools are shaped into the disks on a lathe. I've not personally done this on a big scale as I used to rely on slip stones & cones back when I used to do carving. I'd do some buffing, and re-grind if the corners got too out of shape.

Re: Slips

David Weaver

Shaped hardwood for the inside of a veiner. Actually, better sharpness is achieved with something like that than can be achieved with a translucent slip, and the cost is much lower.

Re: The effect of buffing like this...

David Weaver

That's a good point. One of the early points of confusion for me when wars on the internet were more like the clearance wars mentioned below was that I read a few threads about whether or not carving tools should have two bevels.

I didn't carve anything at the time but had gotten a few gouges and didn't learn anything from the back and forth because most of the answers were like. "I went to a class with ____ and they said this is the only right way to do it".

I forgot about that. Most of my gouges that up until this point, I've maintained with slips, have a small inside bevel, but it's less about dogma and more about making them easier to refresh. The bevel angle accommodates whatever that ends up being -including heavier gouges that I used to mallet.

Want to know about sharpening carving tools?

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

Go to May May's web site and learn how she does it. Might read her history should you doubt she knows carving. And a very nice person too.

Needlemovers

Warren in Lancaster, PA

Some of these guys above are moving the needle backwards.

I once watched a video of Mary May sharpening a carving gouge. She uses a slip stone, as most of us do. However she is rather slow at sharpening. If it took me 15 minutes to sharpen a gouge, I might have had to make videos to make ends meet.

Re: The effect of buffing like this...

Mike In Los Angeles

That’s the impression I got, what I’ve been messing with lately.

Do you think it is possible .......

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

.....that in a teaching video that she might be slowing things down for the students?

If you think she lacks work try to get her to take on a commission. Be accommodating, have a favorable history of working with her, supply excellent carving wood, and she might accept additional work. The quote will suggest she carves efficiently and I presume that includes tool preparation. The result will dispel any reservation whether she is skilled. And if one wants to learn to carve she is an excellent teacher.

From her bio for those that don't know her:

I was fortunate to find a European master carver, Konstantinos Papadakis, who taught me the traditional, old-world techniques and styles of classical, European woodcarving. After studying with Konstantinos for three years, I returned to Europe; first to Greece and then to the City and Guild’s College in London, England to learn the varied techniques from other master carvers.

Re: Do you think it is possible .......

Warren in Lancaster, PA

Yes, things are often slowed down in a video. Do you think it is possible that a woodworker could figure this out? The video I watched was eleven minutes, but in it she said she averages 15 minutes per tool.

Thanks Warren

John in NM

I too wondered what became of David. Sorry to hear it, I liked the guy.