Veritas Honing Guide

Re: Veritas Honing Guide

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

It does, indeed, square up plane irons quite nicely, in my experience. It's a little tricky on irons like rabbeting planes (e.g., Stanley 78), but will accomplish squaring those, too, if you fuss a bit.

I like mine. I know that hand sharpening is considered the Right Way by a lot of folks, but I appreciate the certainty of this jig.

I will say, though, that it's brought up an issue: the degree setting jig I use on my Delta wet-wheel grinder is off by about one degree relative to the Veritas jig. I've had to rough-grind several blades*, and, when I put the irons in the Veritas jig, I wind up grinding the heel of the bevel. The problem is, I think, with the grinder jig, not the Veritas; I need to spend some time figuring that one out.

*...that were apparently previously ground by someone with a violent aversion to straight and square.

Re: Veritas Honing Guide

Chuck Nickerson

The MarkII does make it easier to keep the blade straight. The Eclipse-style jig ($12) does also.

The MarkII makes it quite easy to set all kinds of bevels and skews (another attachment).

I've ended up with all of them. Why? Versatility. As a for instance, my LN 1" chisel does not fit

in the Eclipse-style jig; it's too thick. There's a seat for every rear, and I need three seat to handle

all the rears in my shop.

And now we await the arrival of the no-jig cult.

Re: Veritas Honing Guide

Michael Brady

Ain't that the truth. If you sharpen without a jig, why not just throw the plane body away and just use the iron freehand?

Re: Veritas Honing Guide

Chuck Bjorgen

Well, I use a jig for sharpening many of my turning tools, so it seems a natural thing to do. You're right though. The plane body really is just a jig for holding the cutter.

Re: One suggestion

North of the Border

I've used both the MKI and MKII honing jigs and yes the MKII is better and can do more than MKI. However, if you don't have a lot to sharpen and your main issue is with the squareness, there's an easy fix (I do that with my MKI all the time):

Follow the instructions as given with the MKI jig to set the angle (if you lost it, go to the LV site and read it or print it out). After you mount the blade in the jig, check the squareness with a reliable engineer or try square. (I don't tighten too much the blade in the jig until the squareness is checked or ensured.)

When you sharpen the blade on the waterstones, you don't need to force hard and down on the stone which could throw the blade a little off. Moderate downward pressure is all that is needed. As they say, let the tool (in this case, the waterstones) do the work. (This will speed up the job a little: http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=51961&cat=1,43072,43071,51961)

Happy holidays,

A fix ..

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

Hi Chuck

The Mk II adds a number of new features, such as a roller for cambering the blade, a template for skew blades, and a built-in template for bevel angles. If you plan to keep it simple, the Mk I is still an excellent honing guide.

If you have struggled in the past to with set the blade square, the very simple fix is to use a jig like the following. This sets the blade depth and squareness in one go (I made this jig a good many years ago - pre-Mk II days - so apologies for the poor images. The jig is now pretty common place) ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

Nihilism in the quotidian. Bah.

cult???

Larry Williams

I think it's a good idea to learn how to sharpen. Jigs only do the easy stuff anyway. Show me how you sharpen something like this with any of your jigs. I guess if it takes belonging to a cult to be able to sharpen this, I belong to one. BTW this one cuts a 1/8" bead.

Oh, I don't know...

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

that you use a jigged tool in one setting doesn't require you to use every jig that exists.

Why?

Schtoo

I don't have a plane that needs cutter like that, don't need one, don't want one. Why would I care how to sharpen it?

(I just got a new sharpening jig for my own amusement, so feel like sitting on that side of the fence today. )

Stu.

Re: A fix ..

Chuck Bjorgen

Thanks, all, for your comments. I will work more with the original jig. I also have the Eclipse-styled jig as well as a Stanley jig that I acquired for handling spoke shave irons. I believe now that I need to be more careful the way I apply pressure to the two sides of the jig. Might even try freehand sharpening.

Hope your holidays are great.

Challenge accepted

Bob Hackett

The jig I use is the already established bevel. I jig the angle of my my slip stones off of that.

I am for whatever gets the job done and have been known to use a 5" right angle grinder and sanding disc to reshape and grind some tools then an old felt wheel to power hone that same edge. I always do the final honing with (wait for it) ... diamond.

The ladies love it when you tell them you have jars full of diamonds in your shop.

an alternative sharpening approach, jig-free

Bill Tindall

If you turn much you must have a power grinder with a quality wheel and some feel for removing metal from tool edges. This experience can translate to plane iron sharpening to employ a technique that is cheap (if you already own a grinder), quick and effective. With a bit of practice the following will be easy to use and not involve a jig.

Equipment needed - grinder, cool running crowned wheel , stable tool rest like the Wolverine or what ever you use for skews, square, "fine" fixed diamond plate, and some means for final edge refinement.

Step 1, establishing the hollow grind - using a light touch and a back and forth "touch and go" sweeping motion grind the plane iron nearly to, or just to, its edge. The touch must begin beyond the leading blade side and extend to the far side to keep the sides from over grinding . While this may sound difficult you will find it is in fact easy given your lathe tool sharpening experience. The secret here is patience. Use only a light touch, taking but a few microns of material off per pass. You can easily judge the light touch because the blade engages the wheel safely away from the side of the blade and you can push the blade to the wheel only until a very light shower of sparks fly. These sparks are carrying the heat from grinding away from the blade Check the edge for square with a square and good light and correct as needed. The final result is a bevel hollow ground to the edge or nearly to the edge.

The miracle of the hollow ground bevel. The hollow accomplishes two beneficial results. The hollow will suck itself to a flat surface thereby greatly aiding free hand grinding. Second, subsequent metal removal with a flat abrasive only removes metal over a small fraction of the bevel surface, thereby greatly hastening the metal removal process in the subsequent steps.

Step 2 Edge straightening and refinement Employ a grade "fine" fixed diamond plate, lubricated with water a bit of detergent. Start at the far end of the plate and rock the blade until you feel its bevel suck flat against the plate. Draw the blade toward you. Repeat a few times and then examine the edge. Ideally, this abrasion will extend everywhere to the edge, leaving a wire edge along the length of the edge. But it may not. This step will either leave the blade ready for the next step or at worse it will reveal where more metal removal is needed to either get the edge straight or the bevel more hollow. Then it is an easy task to return to the grinding wheel and using the abrasion marks from Step 2 remove metal as needed to establish a straight edge with a uniform hollow. Alternate Steps 1 and 2 until a straight wire edge is established.

Step 2 final edge refinement Using a finer abrasive further refine the edge. I use 1 micron diamond powder lubed with WD 40 on a cast iron plate and the "seat and pull" technique used for Step 2. The hollow securely sucks onto the cast iron surface. This step is quick because only metal at the very edge is affected due to the hollow grind. A fine water stone or other fine stone or even a fine abrasive sheet stuck to glass will also work for this step.

Bottom line- Don't over-think sharpening. You can stop at Step 2 for some planing needs.

Re: an alternative sharpening approach, jig-free

Chuck Bjorgen

That's a great tutorial, Bill. Yes, I have a Baldor 1725 rpm grinder with aluminum oxide wheels, and use Oneway's Wolverine system which offers a fine tool rest. And I'm familiar with the hollow grind concept. My grinder has seven inch wheels. And I have carefully ground older carbide steel turning chisels without losing the temper, although most of my turning tools are HSS or harder.

I do have a set of water stones as well as oil stones and will probably go back to either of those systems. It's been 10 years since I've done any plane or chisel sharpening so I just have to get back to using the systems I more or less understand. As I said, turning has taken solid hold of me but I got out some of my re-habbed hand planes and was pleasantly surprised that they worked so well thanks to some Hock irons.

Re: A fix ..

Chuck Bjorgen

By the way, Derek, I spent some time browsing your web site this morning and have to thank you for being so generous with your information. Very well done and informative.

Gee, Larry

John Pappas

Larry, I've got to throw out a yellow flag on your post. I think your "curve ball" (some pun intended) is outside this discussion...which I think is about chisels and straight edged plane blades. Still, you present a good argument...sharpening without a jig is a skill worth developing. One never know when it might be required.

Merry Christmas

Larry makes a worthy point

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

I can understand the argument that learning handheld sharpening for one set of tools will improve skills in other areas.

I would counter-argue that the process of sharpening a chisel or plane iron is somewhat different from that of sharpening a molding plane or other shaped edge. A lot of people sharpen molding plane irons by holding the iron still and applying slips to it; few people sharpen chisels or plane irons this way. I think this process difference is not accidental - I believe there are different sharpening requirements between a long, essentially straight edge and a shaped edge. So I'm not sure the skill set for one translates 100% to the other. Obviously, certain fundamental skills do: understanding bevels and microbevels or what constitutes "sharp," for instance. But not all of it.

So I can see using a jig for one type of sharpening but not another.

I may just be rationalizing my use of a jig for my chisels and plane irons; but it's sure helped.

Re: Nihilism in the quotidian. Bah.

Michael Brady

Actually I recommend you freehand your nihilism.

Question

John Pappas

You say, "...rock the blade until you feel its bevel suck flat against the plate. Draw the blade toward you."

Just curious, I have watched sharpening demos at several woodworking shows by various people. I have seen the blade drawn back toward the person as you state, and I have seen more who push the blade away. I sharpen by pushing the blade away. What's the argument for drawing the blade back toward yourself? Thanks.

In all fairness...

John in NM

If you want to throw a flag, throw it at the fellow fishing for a fight (or at me for such shameless alliteration )

I would say that "And now we await the arrival of the no-jig cult." is a pretty clear invitation to take the discussion in the direction that Larry did.

And in fairness to Chuck, while I don't use a honing guide myself, is the tool rest on my grinder really any different? All guides and jigs of any sort do is help us attain the results we desire, I don't think anyone should be disparaged for using them or not.

Re: Question

Michael Brady

It avoids having the cutting edge "catch" on the stone and 1) dub the edge; and 2) gouge the (water) stone. When you think about it, it probably isn't a good idea to be pushing a keen edge through the slurry on the stone. Pulling totally makes sense...if you you are using a jig. Freehanders have probably rounded over the edge by that point anyway. I'm just kidding about that last sentence....lighten up.

"And now we await the arrival of the no-jig cult."

Pam Niedermayer

Seemed to me it was designed to cut off that debate, prevent it, just too worrisome.

Pam

Perhaps that was the intent...

John in NM

But if so, it doesn't seem to have worked very well

why I draw the blade....

Bill Tindall

I feel I have better control at keeping the bevel engaged with the abrasive surface. I may be the only person in the world that does it this way, or maybe not...I don't know. I start a dovetail saw backwards too.