Search query: «dale nish»

Re: Finish Swirls or Streaks

Doug Reynolds

Dick: Sorry, yes I am using the Dale Nish "system" as per the video. No steps omitted. All the finishes are brand new from Rockler in Seattle. Freshly mixed then applied.

John: These are not runs, just tiny swirl marks around the bowl as it turns on the lathe and I apply and wipe off finish. Look just like and about the size of the t-shirt's weave. I have the Beall system. Do you start with Tripoli, White Diamond or, wax? How long do you wait for the finish to cure before you buff?

Re: Finish Swirls or Streaks *LINK*

Dick Coers

Are you saying you use a special finish, or the Dale Nish finishing method? I think you are missing a step if you are using his method. Dale applied a thin layer of lacquer first making sure it had extra applied where it soaked in, then at least two coats of Waterlox, then a wax. Sounds to me like you are taking a couple short cuts and not getting enough finish on the wood.


https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/Video/326

Finish Swirls or Streaks

Doug Reynolds

I am using a finish the results of which I really like. It is the Dale Nish finish from Craft Supply. Basically, with the lathe running as slow as possible, I am putting on General Finishes Arm-R-Seal with a grey Scotch Bright pad then wiping off the access with a white cotton flannel cloth (t-shirt). The last step seems to leave the finish with swirl marks or streaks in the finish. Probably from the weave of the cloth.

I plan to apply wax with Liberon 0000 steel wool which I hope removes or reduces the swirls/streaks.

Any suggestions as I am trying to make these pieces really nice?

Thanks, Doug

Re: How to turn to a drawing

David Walser

Alan -- Thank you for the suggestion and for the link. It's good information.

What I found interesting about the video that I linked to was that is supplied information that many self-taught turners lack. My school district eliminated shop classes (and home economics) the year before I would have been required to take shop. So, I never had the benefit of turning a table leg in 9th grade wood shop and didn't learn the process of turning to a drawing.

Years later, I took a 5-day introductory turning class from Dale Nish. He taught how to make all the various cuts and he used projects to reinforce that learning. But, he never taught the process of turning to a drawing. In the 15+ years since I took that class, I have learned on my own how to turn to a drawing. (That skill became critical the first time I turned a segmented vessel. If my outside curve didn't follow the drawing, I could have easily blown through the side of the vessel.) Over time, I developed a process that is surprisingly similar to the one shown in the video.

Using a video overlay (or turning to a shadow cast by a light above the turning onto the drawing mounted on the lathe bed) makes it fairly easy to turn to an exact shape. But, it doesn't help with knowing where to start taking away the wood. To many of you, that may sound obvious, but I found it daunting at first.

Re: Question......

David Walser

I agree with Lan. This Delta model and similar Powermatic lathes from the same era are well made machines. If you're turning small projects or spindles, they are a good choice -- particularly if you upgrade to electronic speed control.

Dale Nish, the founder of Craft Supplies USA, had one of these lathes in his basement shop. He could have had any of the modern lathes, but he bought a quality used one from the local school district when they discontinued their shop classes. I asked him about it when he gave me a tour of his shop. (I was taking a class he was teaching at CSUSA and he'd invited all of us over to his house.) He said that for the small bird houses and ornaments he turned in his spare time, the old lathe was all he needed. And, if he wanted to turn something larger, he could always go to CSUSA. (Most of us don't have that option.)

Re: Ellsworth book

Robert Lalonde

What a fun coincidence, John. I am currently re-reading David's book now as well. I agree that the second time around is well worth it. I can't believe the stuff I missed the first time.

I also just finished reading Dale Nish's 1975 book Artistic Turning. Not only a great read but also a fun look back to see how turning has evolved.

Re: Building club library

john lucas

Dale Nish's book on wood turning

Richard Raffen's book on Bowl design

Chris Stott's book on Boxes

Malcolm Tibbets segmented turning

Doc Green on chucking wood

Any of Mike Darlow's books although they can be hard reading. He has tons of information in each book but it's like you ask him what time it is and he will tell you how to build a clock.

Re: Building club library

Don Orr

Woodturning: A Foundation Course by Keith Rowley. No turning library should be without it. Any of Dale Nish's books.

Woodturning; A Fresh Approach by Robert Chapman.

There are so many others on things like toys, tops, jewelry, design, etc.

Barbara Dill has an excellent self-published book on multi axis turning for example.

Re: Building club library

Dale Gillaspy

Best is very subjective. There are a lot of great videos and books out there. I would suggest Ellsworth on Turning, Dale's Nish's book on ornaments, Stuart Batty videos, Ray Key's work, Glenn Lucas, and the list goes on and on. If you are just starting, I would set a budget within your club limits, or ask people for donations. I have donated several things to our club library when I think I have gotten all that I can from them.

Re: PM90 to buy or not to buy

David Walser

Another comment: Years ago, I toured Dale Nish's personal shop. Dale was the founder of Craft Supplies USA and could have had any lathe then available. What lathe was in his shop? A PM 90 that he bought for a song when the local school district liquidated its woodworking equipment. Dale turned museum quality pieces on that lathe.

Re: lathe speeds for each tool *LINK*

David Walser

As John said, safe spinning speed has more to do with the size of the turning blank than the tool that you're using to shape the blank. Many other factors affect the speed at which you can turn safely: the integrity of the blank (blanks with voids & defects should be turned, if they're turned at all, more slowly than a blank of solid wood), the method of holding the blank onto the lathe, the orientation of the blank, etc.

Several years ago, Dale Nish devised a formula to guide new turners in determining a safe turning speed. His formula is discussed in the article linked below. At the end of the article there is an embedded video that discusses lathe safety. There are lots of good safety tips and the video is well worth watching.

HTH


Determining Safe Wood Lathe Speeds

Re: Turning tops in 30 seconds

Dale Gillaspy

I think we are going to do that again this year. The idea actually was given to me by Dale Nish and. They do an egg cup competition in Utah similar to that one. We didn't want to copy them exactly, but took the idea. I think it was a lot of fun and went over well.

Re: WHAT THE-Any Segmented demos?

George Hurlburt

Will any of the turners be doing segmented demos? I live in Central Ks. Last time I went it was to see Curt Theobald demonstrate. I also saw Dale Nish at the Craft Supplies booth. I also belong to the segmented woodturners group may just to wait until they have a meet.

Re: Magnolia - What a sweet turn

George Hurlburt

Lots of Character in that wood. One my favorites finishing process is what I learned from Dale Nish back in the eighties at Arrowmount. Sand to your satisfaction then apply Deft Clear Wood finish,wipe excess, wait a little bit then go with Antique Minwax Oil. Gives a nice low gloss, or several coats will give higher and if that's not enough bluff. If you go direct with the oil it will darken. Of course other turners will have their favor right way as Dale use to say.

Re: I have a favor to ask

Dave Long

There are numerous articles and publications by the late, great Dale Nish on various subjects which are must reading for turners at all levels

Re: The self centering 4 jaws chuck

Wally Dickerman

Could it be something as simple as the deep fluted bowl gouge? Jerry Glaser and perhaps others had experimented with it in the 60's but it wasn't marketed until the late 70's in the UK. It was introduced in the US in around 1980. It took a few years for it to become popular. I first saw one being used by Dale Nish in 1983 or 1984. Nobody at the demonstration had ever seen one. We were amazed at the flying curls of woodchips. I immediately bought my first Bowl gouge.

IMO, the introduction of the bowl gouge had a lot to do with the rapidly increasing popularity of woodturning. Suddenly it became easy to quickly and cleanly hollow a bowl!

Re: RISK & Dale Nish's bowl speed formula

Geoff Whaling

No problem about the name. I thought you were paying me a compliment (Wally Dickerman?) Hence the Hawkeye line from MASH.

As Mike says the formula was the opening line in my orig post. It is attributed to Dale but I have not seen his books so I can't say for certain where it first appeared.

Lyle Jamieson also gives a good response on lathe/blank speed in his newsletter https://www.lylejamieson.com/newsletter/2013_dec/december2013print.pdf

Re: RISK & Dale Nish's bowl speed formula

Mike Peace

Geoff had the formula in his email. But if you need to see it somewhere else, it is posted on page of the current Craft Supply catalog.

Re: RISK & Dale Nish's bowl speed formula

phillip Medghalchi

Geoff Whaling, I truly apologize for calling you a different name. In other forum when you want to reply and use the orig. posters name it appears automatically, and here it doesn't so meant no offense. Just was trying to get the message across. BTW, do you remember if that foumla of Dale is on his site or where was it that he posted that formula, i like to reprint it and put it up behind my lathe so i can look at it. Hoping down the road I will always remember by heart.

Re: RISK & Dale Nish's bowl speed formula

Geoff Whaling

Wally?? I resemble that

Always hard to pitch a response but plenty of experts looking at the names on this thread, & plenty of competent advice too. Sounds like you have a good grounding on the bowl turning side of things, maybe a little assistance required with sharpening.

Maybe it was a learning exercise however earlier training and your safety precautions look like they saved your bacon. Looking at the cracks and ring shakes in your latter photos I would have tossed the blank long ago as it was doomed to fail. If you are experiencing flexing of the bowl I would suggest that perhaps you are forcing the cut with a not so sharp tool.

"Life is to short to turn crappy wood." now where have I heard that one

My take is "Your life may get shorter turning crappy wood."

Re: RISK & Dale Nish's bowl speed formula

phillip Medghalchi

Wally, I appreciate the tip you posted. One thing I failed to observe is that I have read Dale's recommendation, however, forgot to make note of it and put it into practice.

my long thread bellow exaplins in detail what happened. to put your mind at ease these are the things I learned early on and put it to practice and I am sure I can improve on them further.

I do turn in between at the beginning according to Lyle's recommendations, I find it easier to reorient the blank to get a better grain pattern for the final design. I never, and I mean it seriously. I learned this at very early stages in my turning endeavor, since I had a friend who had serious face reconstruction because of it. stand in line of fire. At times it gets little uncomfortable to be on the side of the line of fire and it is tempting ,but I made sure that I am to one side or the other even though I have to design my piece. I stop frequently, and maybe tilt my head to look at my curve on the bowl before I go further with it.

I have had (and still does happen) inspect the spigot and make sure it's sound at least visually and at times the darn thing proves me wrong (then again, I don't think I am any exception) to make sure it will hold up for what iam intending to do.

I do not sand at high speed and never did,( please see my long post for detail, and explanation of the error in tying). The highest rpm I ever sanded was about 750 rpm or so and that was when I had my Grizzly Reeves Driven lathe and I wasn't sure where it felt on the speed. Now I have NOVA XRP and digital read out, so I am constantly watching my speed and it's been about almost two years that I ever gotten up beyond 365 rpm for sanding and mostly on Mesquite, which is a sturdier wood. all others based on the texture and stability maybe around 275 and most of the time the back up pad and the discs are held in my hand, not much on the power sander.

I put most of the tips you mentioned above in practice and I am sure I can still improve on them. If a man tells you he knows all there is to know about a trade then you need to run the other way from him since he maybe dangerous to himself.

I am sure we all fall short of following all the precautions in our trade, I strive to do my best and practice as much I can remember and err on the safe side. I am going to find Dale's formula and laminate it and put up in front of the lathe, so i have a good reminder, It was just a dumb assumption of me reading or someone told me that you get a cleaner surface when you sheer scrape at a higher speed, which I guess I am proven wrong here.

I appreciate the time you tokk to share these tips with us.

RISK & Dale Nish's bowl speed formula

Geoff Whaling

RPM x diameter (in inches) = 6,000 to 9,000

Dale Nish recommended this as a basis to determine a safe speed to turn bowls. When you consider the bowl size & rpm some turners work at and then calculate the rim speed of a bowl it becomes quite significant at times.

Dales formula gives guidance on a recommended speed range of 750 to 1125 rpm MAX for a sound 8" bowl blank. Unsound blanks or blanks with "natural features" require careful appraisal and stabilization or modified turning & work holding techniques before proceeding & lower speeds.

If you ask those same turners who recommend relatively high lathe speeds to front up to a major league baseball pitcher or a top line cricket fast bowler without any protective gear their response would most likely be - NO WAY!

Lathes potentially can generate objects with significantly higher speed & mass than a baseball or cricket ball. Potentially the "struck by object" event produces severe head & facial injuries that render the injured turner unconscious & incapable of calling for assistance.

Several wood turners have died in similar circumstances in the past ten years. How many received serious life changing injury? A - unknown. How many have had black eyes or significant facial injury? A - many & every club has several examples in recent years. How many turners have lost a bowl off the lathe? - ALL! & it is exceptional to meet one who hasn't - yet ;-)

Yet many turners are quite prepared to accept that level of risk when turning an unsound bowl blank or sanding one at very high lathe speeds. They regularly expose themselves to hazards that are known to produce quite serious even potentially life threatening injuries. The more they expose themselves to hazards with high risk without implementing suitable hazard reduction controls generally means a much higher probability of a failure and injury.

Their response "I've been doing this for X years & nothing has happened" - yet!

Philip,

The others have identified a number of hazards in your particular bowl turning scenario, which in combination present quite a serious risk to your safety.

As a quick summary of hazards,

1. Unsound blank - punky & cracks with high potential for failure.

2. Technique - tool control is producing significant tear out - high potential for severe catches.

3. Tool sharpening - may require attention?

4. Blank mounting technique - between centers at least initially with a soft blank.

5. Unsound tenon - cracks & dia of tenon.

6. Turning lathe speed - unknown but likely high given next point.

7. Sanding lathe speed - very high - 2 times MAX recommended.

8. Use of protective equipment?

9. Potentially turning alone?

10. Emergency plan? - potentially no safety backup plan.

The first five generate a high probability of dislodging the bowl from the lathe or ripping relatively large objects from it.

Combine that probability with high lathe speeds capable of generating objects with high momentum & the risk increases dramatically and so does the severity of a potential injury.

As mentioned above these typical scenarios have caused serious head injuries & brain trauma and often render the injured turner unconscious an unable to call for help.

Turners may "get away with it" for a long time before such a scenario plays out fully & results in the turner actually receiving a direct hit. I liken the risk to fronting up to a blindfolded pitcher or fast bowler at close range. If you do it often enough one ball is eventually going to hit you in the head!

Hand turning is a safe pursuit IF we follow recommended safe turning practices.

p.s. If you look carefully at the 4? cracks near your thumb in photo 2 you may notice that the tear out pattern changes abruptly across the cracks. This indicates a couple of things to me

1. the bowl is flexing across the crack.

2. maybe a fair bit of force is being used to produce the cut.

3. tool presentation & sharpening requires adjustment.

4. it is unsafe to continue in this condition.

Re: Thanks Wally,

Wally Dickerman in Arizona

In my beginners bowl classes we always use semi gloss Deft brushing laquer....applied on the lathe. A quick brush-on followed immediately by a polish to dry with a paper towel with the lathe running. A second coat can be applied immediately and polished dry. Dries to the touch in a few minutes. The bowl is then parted off. It's then reversed using cole jaws. We turn a little design on the bottom and while the lathe is still running apply a coat of Deft to the bottom and polish it dry. The student then takes his/her bowl home with a dry to the touch finish.

I advise the student that succeeding coats of lacquer or oil can be applied later. Yes, oil works over lacquer after a bit of polishing with steel wool.

In the first turning demo I ever saw, in the early 80's, Dale Nish finished a just turned bowl in the same way using Deft. I've been finishing pieces on the lathe ever since.

The Great egg cup race

Keith Tompkins

Me and Steven Gray at the Utah Symposium...we teamed up for the Great Egg Cup Race. Steve: "how fast do you think you can hollow the egg cup?" Me: "About ten seconds, max." Steve: "I can turn the outside as fast, then you part the piece off." Our time: 23 seconds. Not too shabby for the first effort. The Egg Cup race was a favorite of Dale Nish, and it was done is his honor...great fun! What a great symposium!

Lathe Speed Article by Doc Green *LINK*

Doc Green

Here is a discussion of lathe speed that offers suggestions for RPM based on a guideline first put forth by Dale Nish (I think).

http://www.docgreenwoodturner.com/lathespeed.html

Click on the chart to see the suggested RPM for a piece of a given diameter.

The article also presents a smattering of rotational physics, and a way to visualize the energy contained in a rotating bowl blank.

Hope you find this interesting/useful.

~Doc


Doc's Website