Building club library

Re: Building club library

Dale Gillaspy

Best is very subjective. There are a lot of great videos and books out there. I would suggest Ellsworth on Turning, Dale's Nish's book on ornaments, Stuart Batty videos, Ray Key's work, Glenn Lucas, and the list goes on and on. If you are just starting, I would set a budget within your club limits, or ask people for donations. I have donated several things to our club library when I think I have gotten all that I can from them.

Re: Building club library

don stephan

The Raffan videos and books complement each other so well, my suggestion would be to match them up.

Re: Building club library

Stuart Johnson

Doc Green's book.

Re: Building club library

john stegall

+1 on Doc Green's book

Re: Building club library

john stegall

Mike Darlow's book Woodturning Design

Bought that one when John Lucas and John K Jordan discussed it here.

Re: Building club library

Don Orr

Woodturning: A Foundation Course by Keith Rowley. No turning library should be without it. Any of Dale Nish's books.

Woodturning; A Fresh Approach by Robert Chapman.

There are so many others on things like toys, tops, jewelry, design, etc.

Barbara Dill has an excellent self-published book on multi axis turning for example.

Re: Building club library

john lucas

Dale Nish's book on wood turning

Richard Raffen's book on Bowl design

Chris Stott's book on Boxes

Malcolm Tibbets segmented turning

Doc Green on chucking wood

Any of Mike Darlow's books although they can be hard reading. He has tons of information in each book but it's like you ask him what time it is and he will tell you how to build a clock.

Re: Building club library

don stephan

So did I, very useful and very little overlap with Richard Raffan's bowl design book, which is also very useful.

Do you really want to invest in a library?

Dick Coers

Our club library gets very little use. The poor guy that has to lug it around brings it every month, and only a couple of guys use it. There are hours and hours of videos on youtube, many are crap. But, many are over an hour long that were recorded by very qualified turners, many pros. I'd suggest a good mentor program and regional turners hired to demonstrate would be wiser investments.

Re: Do you really want to invest in a library?

mike peace

Our club has similar experience of low useage of the library. We quit buying new DVDs.

Re: Do you really want to invest in a library?

mikeee12345

We can only assume DVD's will someday also go the way of the VHS Tapes, Floppy Disks and Dinosaurs.

Books have been around thousands of years, that may be the format to maintain.

Re: Do you really want to invest in a library?

Bill Howatt

I won't argue with the basic premise about books being around a long time. Woodturning, like many other things, can be much more easily taught by a "video" so the student can see what you mean along with the commentary. Diagrams on the paper page are quite lacking by themselves for this type of activity but I wouldn't want a video without good commentary.

On the other side of the coin, don't try to show me how to do some computer configuration setup with a video, for that I much prefer a list of written commands or static pictures of the screen.

BIll

Re: Do you really want to invest in a library?

john lucas

OH I don't know. I thouroughly enjoy listening to a 12 year old telling me how to use some feature of photoshop (NOT). Really sucks when your looking for info, can't find it in the book but find a video online an it's some kid with Zits trying to explain it. And they go through the steps so fast you can't follow along.

Re: Building club library

Lyle Jamieson

I have a police to give my DVDs to clubs for half price. Call me if you are interested.

Re: Do you really want to invest in a library?

John K Jordan

>>>"Woodturning, like many other things, can be much more easily taught by a "video" so the student can see what you mean along with the commentary. Diagrams on the paper page are quite lacking by themselves for this type of activity ...

I understand what you are saying, but if I had to choose between books and videos for a library I would choose books.

I believe it may be more correct to say that some people learn some things better by watching and listening. Others learn just as well by reading and seeing photos and diagrams. And depending on the person, I contend the "book method" can teach much more depth AND breadth in a shorter time.

I learned woodturning from books (mostly from three specific books). For me, good books are better than many of the videos I've seen. I never had trouble visualizing what was well written and diagrammed. On the other hand, videos by their nature have to gloss over or skip so much that can be included in a book. If not, the video would be many hours long!

And how do you put labeled tabs in a video, xerox a page to tack on the wall, flip back and forth for comparisons, write notes in the margins? I often write notes in my books such as "see page 33" or "compare Raffan's method in..." How do you highlight a point in a video? How do you look up a concept in the index? Add reference tables, footnotes, and sidebars?

A book is also quite portable, not destroyed by a scratch or by sitting on it, and can be read by candlelight when the power is out and all the batteries are dead!

Don't get me wrong, I understand videos are a useful learning tool for many people, especially for those who dislike reading in general. For me, videos are best at explaining and demonstrating specific concepts and usually a single way to do a task. ("Watch while I make this thing.") There is not enough time to show five other ways to do the task and explain the pros and cons for each under which circumstances. There are, of course, some excellent exceptions such as the John Lucas skew video I saw for the first time a few days ago.

BTW, although it won't fit in a club library, my recipe for a turning education would combine some good books, some short videos, some live demos, some classes, and most importantly, some one-on-one turning/mentoring with as many experienced turners as possible. (I don't think I've ever spent time with another turner where we both didn't learn something.)

JKJ

Re: Do you really want to invest in a library?

John Jordan

Most Macs no longer have DVD drives, nor do they distribute software on them or other media. Apple has declared it, the DVD is terminal and it will happen more quickly than you think.

I have an entire box of my DVD's on VHS tapes-still nearly full after all these years. Anyone want them? LOL

John

Nothing beats a mentor

Dick Coers

No one can learn the subtle requirements of fine tool manipulation without actually seeing it and doing it. I mentioned this in my other response, but I wanted to emphasis it because of the book/DVD debate. I worked alone with a new Delta lathe in my basement, trying to will some kiln dried wood into submission. Failing horribly! Only after a regional symposium and a weekend class did I build any genuine skill. A book will inspire you, and also show you how to hold the work. But no way does a static picture give enough information to properly present and use a tool. The DVD is only as good as the turner and videographer. A single camera on a tripod does not provide the information needed either. I'll say it again, spend the money on some Saturday events where everyone learns tool control. Then spend weeks looking at Google images. Look at pottery photos and build an inspiration file. That's all it takes! LOL I've taught classes on tool control. I've held their hands, I've kept a hand on the handle to guide them, and as soon as I turn my back they forget everything I showed them, and they get a catch. How would a book present the information better?

Re: Do you really want to invest in a library?

mikeee12345

John,

How much do you want for those VHS tapes?

In another ten years the VHS player and tapes will be in style again. :-)

If VHS will come back, how about BETA now?

Seeing and doing

John K Jordan

>>>No one can learn the subtle requirements of fine tool manipulation

>>>without actually seeing it and doing it...

I don't agree with "No one can learn [tool control] without actually seeing it". But of course, it is impossible to master without doing it!

I agree that nothing beats a mentor. But when I started I had no mentor, didn't know about symposiums, took one mostly worthless beginners class, never watched a youtube video, and saw only the demos at the woodturning club. (Some of these, I realized later, were pretty bad.) My first bowl was from kiln dried oak, hard wood but it came out OK and my sister loved it. After my first few self-misguided attempts with brute force I bought some books and learned there were better ways.

I realize that the book method may not be the best for everyone but it will absolutely work for anyone capable of visualizing from diagrams, photos, and written descriptions. It may be the best option for those without other resources.

There is only one way I know to learn tool control - cut, fail, experiment, try again, experiment, practice, practice... Get a catch? Stop and figure out why then continue.

The books were perfect for me, especially Mike Darlow's with incredible diagrams, photos, and descriptions. They told me exactly how the cuts should work, how to present the tool, and how it should move through the cut. I kept trying until something clicked and I began to get the tools under control, starting with the skew and spindle gouge.

BTW, most of my turning for the first few years was dry wood and much of it was spindles. Looking back, I think repeated practice with hard, dry spindles helped me a lot. And I think learning to control the skew first, the simplest cutting tool in the kit, helped me tremendously as a newbee.

Since then the recommendation I've heard repeatedly in person and from books (Raffan, Darlow, Rowley, Clewes, Penta, etc.) is that spindle turning will teach the tool control that makes face/bowl turning easy. Apparently the other direction doesn't work as well. (Unfortunately learning spindle turning with a skew is not a popular course compared to the sheer joy of making big green shavings fly from a bowl blank!)

I think we can agree that finesse at tool control makes all the difference. I believe instruction can come from different directions: the right book, mentor, video, demo, or class. But regardless of the source, expertise comes only from thinking and practicing.

JKJ

Re: Do you really want to invest in a library?

Mike Brazeau

Heard the other day that the last factory making VHS recorders is stopping production.

Re: Seeing and doing

mikeee12345

You can take many classes on wood turning and learn a great wealth of information, but you will

quickly loose the touch if you don't put the hours on the lathe on a regular basis keeping your

skill level and techniques fresh in your mind and maintaining muscle memory for the delicate moves

of the tool for fine work.

Once a turner grasps the concept of the bevel of the tool and how you approach the wood, it usually

takes a little practice to regain the subtle techniques for each of the tools if you have not turned certain

types of items for a while.

Most of you guys turn bowls on a regular basis, I usually turn bowls several times a year when I have

free time to work on some of my seasoned bowl blanks that have dried. It always takes me several hours

of turning time on the bowls to get back in the "groove". When I first started turning wood I made bowls

just about every day and using the tools for the task was automatic, once I started turning other items, and got away from the bowls it always takes a little time to get back up to speed.

Practice

John K Jordan

>>> ... it usually takes a little practice to regain the subtle techniques for each of

>>>the tools if you have not turned certain types of items for a while.

>>>...

>>>Most of you guys turn bowls on a regular basis...

I wish!

I know guys who turn almost every day and sometimes I'm more than a little envious. I'm lucky to get to the lathe once a week or two except in the freezing winter or hottest part of the summer. (The farm/animal care takes a lot of time much of the year.) But then sometimes I need a fix and binge turn several days in a row to satisfy the addiction. :-)

I've heard what you said from others too but I don't quite understand. I always thought woodturning was more like the proverbial "riding a bicycle" where once you learn you can't forget. Do you mean after several weeks? Several months?

I don't recall consciously having to practice tool technique when returning to specific types of items or even after not turning at all for a while, but maybe I haven't paid attention.

Oh, I just now thought of something I do which probably helps: Years ago I got into the habit of making most of my cuts "practice" cuts. Rough, plane, and taper with the skew, switch to another tool and experiment with shapes for fun then cut them away as I approach the end shape. For a bowl or platter I like to make many repeated "finish" cuts even when not even close to the final shape. (This is probably why I'm the slowest turner I know!) I suspect this habit helps get ramped up after an absence without realizing it.

Does anyone else usually work like this? I'll bet production turners don't!!

JKJ

BTW, I'm with you on the bowl turning - maybe a bowl (or platter) every few months. I always thought I'd have way more time after I retired. Ha. Retired 10 years now and still waiting for that free time to kick in!

Re: Practice

mikeee12345

John,

Wood lathe tool control which a large percentage is muscle memory that makes the cut a fluid motion, would be the same as a golfer swinging a club. If you don't practice on a regular basis you will loose the

subtle techniques and muscle memory for making the different cuts. A golfer needs to practice weekly just to maintain being an average player. Practice, Practice, Practice :-)