final finishing question

Re: final finishing question

Dick Coers

I've only ever used the Beall. Love it. If you look at alternatives, the cotton buff quality is most important. No hard cheap buffs. I guess you might look at different foam pads that the automotive guys use. Pretty sure they stopped using wool bonnets years ago and exclusively use foam now. If you go that way, automotive product like swirl remover will provide the abrasive instead of the wax bars used with the Beall. In my opinion, you can't use the buff alone to get a perfect finish. It will not take out dust nibs, or flatten orange peel if you spray. You still need sandpaper to flatten the finish. The buff is just used to achieve the gloss level you want.

Mounting Beall wheels on the lathe *LINK*

Doc Green

If you decide to go with the Beall Buffing System, here is a method of attaching the wheels to the lathe using a simple shop-made mandrel. (No drawbar required.)

http://www.docgreenwoodturner.com/lathebuffing.html


Shop-made mandrel

Re: final finishing question

Wally Dickerman in Arizona

Gary have you ever thought about doing your finishing while the piece is till mounted on the lathe? I've been doing it that way forever. The fine sanding you say is too much work....easy if the piece is spinning on the lathe. With HF's I usually pour some oil inside and let the lathe run slowly for a while. some of the oil comes right through to the outside. Polishing...just turn on the lathe and polish with a soft cloth (T-shirt).

After the finishing is complete I just part it off and finish the bottom. ( I use glue blocks a lot)

Try it...you might like it

Re: final finishing question

bowlman

I have had a Beall Buffing System since they first appeared. ANd yes, I had a few bowls ripped from hands. They really get dinged up when they hit the concrete floor of my studio-shop-garage (that has never seen a vehicle). So what's the answer? Simple ... wear nitrile gloves when buffing, they provide a more secure grip. And most important ... go to a local carpet place and ask if they have any cutoff pieces you could have for cheap or nothing. I have 2 pieces about 2 feet wide by 6 feet long, one on top of the other. When a bowl or other turning gets ripped away, it hits the carpet and pretty much stays tere. Of course, I haven't had any rips in a while. By saying that I have probably jinxed myself. Actually the most important thing is to focus, pay attention and use the correct portion of the wheel.

Re: final finishing question *LINK*

Stuart Johnson

I made up this 3 wheel buffing system for smaller items like pens and pepper grinders. I don't think it works well for bowls


3 wheel buff

Re: final finishing question

Barry L Elder

I have used the Beall Buffing system for quite a few years with the MT2 mounting mandrel. I normally would do all finishing on the lathe and then buff after setting the unit aside for a few weeks. Talked to the powers that be at Sutherland-Welles and learned a lot about my favorite finish, Tung Oil. Now it is heat-treated and that saves me lots and lots of time! Most of the people I sell to like to feel the wood, not the plastic!

Re: final finishing question

Jake Niedling

Go with the Beal, you will be happy. Everything I turn gets buffed on the beal. Usually only use red rouge and the wax. almost never use the white diamond wheel. Just don't think it is needed most of the time and don't like it if the white material gets into the grain of the wood. I use a no. 2 morsetaper adapter on the lathe to hold the wheels and the round buffs. You will need the round buffs for bowls. Unless it is a large bowl, it is difficult to use the wheels on the inside of a bowl. The edges of your turnings is where the wheel likes to get grabby, but if you keep the edges up and down in the same direction the wheel is spinning, then you should have no problems.

Thanks Dick

GaryG in MD

Good info -- I appreciate your thoughts. ...GG

Thanks for the link, Doc

GaryG in MD

I'm going to get the three wheel version that's held between the headstock and tailstock. Seems simpler that way. ...GG

Thanks Wally,

GaryG in MD

First, congrats on all your fun activities in PHX.

Very well deserved! I wasn't there but would have enjoyed meeting you.

Thanks for your thoughts re finishing on the lathe.

I have to admit I never thought of that.

I can see how you can do it if you use an oil finish because you can blend that when you remove your glue block, but I don't think it would work with a surface finish -- I expect you would be able to see the blend line.

Say a few more words about it. ...GG

good perspective

GaryG in MD

I'm planning to be conservative and careful -- I'd hate to lose a piece at that time. Let's hope I don't have to learn by experience. ...GG

Thanks Stuart,

GaryG in MD

Yes, that's what I intend to do. I think that's the best approach. ...GG

Thanks Barry

GaryG in MD

I agree about oil finishes. They look great, and they're easy to use.

My problem with them is that they turn everything yellow.

If yellow is OK, that's what I use.

With light woods, I'm forced to find alternatives, but I've never found one that I can master -- I find them all somewhat difficult to use -- and they pretty much have to be done off the lathe. ...GG

Thanks Jake,

GaryG in MD

Yes I'll be getting the smaller buffs for insides too.

Thanks for your hint on how to handle edges.

That's good to know. I really don't want to lose a piece at that point. ...GG

Re: final finishing question

Steve Kniffen

I looked at the Beall system, assessed my needs, and bought a similar system from PSI: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/LBUFFSYS.html?prodpage=1LB . I don't do a lot of buffing so this was more cost effective for me than a Beall system.

It comes with a #2MT for the headstock and fist the live center. Easy to assemble and use. I keep everything inside a 5 gallon bucket with a lid to keep dirt out when I'm not using it.

I read a recommendation somewhere that before your first use, run it with no wax on the buffers. Lightly hold a piece of coarse sandpaper against the wheels to collect the lint. Works like a charm.

Thanks Steve,

GaryG in MD

Two good tips! ...GG

Re: Thanks Wally,

Wally Dickerman in Arizona

My favorite finish is Daly's Benn Matte tung oil. Been using it for many years on HFs and bowls. I have some pieces that were finished 25 years ago and the finish is still good. I have many times applied a touch up coat to a piece done long ago. The results are good.

I liberally brush on a coat using a foam brush, often with the lathe turning very slowly (newspapers protect the bed). I run the lathe and polish occasionally until the oils stops bleeding. The process is so easy with the lathe running slowly. I do succeeding coats the same way, often several pieces at a time.

I sometime use WOP and find that doing it on the lathe is simpler and easier than off.

Over the years I've used this method on many hundreds of pieces.

Gary, I don't know what you mean by surface finish and blend line.

Re: the three wheel system

DKWalser

Gary - The three wheel system is great for small items like bottle stoppers and pens. It saves a lot of time in switching out one wheel for the next.

The three wheel system's not so great for larger items like bowls. (It's hard to keep a large bowl from being buffed by more than one wheel at a time.) So, depending on what you're turning, you might prefer having the the single wheels. It's more flexible. If you're turning several items, you can save time by buffing all of them with the first wheel, switching out to the second wheel and buffing all the items with it, before going to the third wheel.

If I had to choose just one way to go, single wheel or three wheel, I'd go with the single wheel -- for my mix of turning. I turn a lot of items that would be too large to buff comfortably with the three wheel system. YMMV. Good luck!

Re: Thanks Wally,

DKWalser

Gary,

I apply most of my finishes -- both oil and film finishes -- on the lathe. Never had a problem with blending the finish on the bottom with the rest of the finish. Friction polishes (a type of film finish) work very well for this application. So do brushing lacquers, like Deft's clear wood finish. Unlike some other film finishes, each coat of lacquer melds with the prior coats, so you don't have layers of finish.

Hope this helps.

Re: Thanks Wally,

Wally Dickerman in Arizona

In my beginners bowl classes we always use semi gloss Deft brushing laquer....applied on the lathe. A quick brush-on followed immediately by a polish to dry with a paper towel with the lathe running. A second coat can be applied immediately and polished dry. Dries to the touch in a few minutes. The bowl is then parted off. It's then reversed using cole jaws. We turn a little design on the bottom and while the lathe is still running apply a coat of Deft to the bottom and polish it dry. The student then takes his/her bowl home with a dry to the touch finish.

I advise the student that succeeding coats of lacquer or oil can be applied later. Yes, oil works over lacquer after a bit of polishing with steel wool.

In the first turning demo I ever saw, in the early 80's, Dale Nish finished a just turned bowl in the same way using Deft. I've been finishing pieces on the lathe ever since.

Wally and David!

GaryG in MD

Where have you been all these years?

Where have I been all these years?

I have to admit that I never considered finishing on the lathe for anything but boxes, small stuff, pens, etc. This is an eye opener for me. I've got to give it a try.

Wally -- re my blend line comment. After parting the reversed piece off, you have to finish the foot. With a surface finish like MWOP, I thought that might leave a lumpy line where the new finish goes on overlapping the previous coat on the remainder. Not a problem with oils, of course. I can see that it wouldn't be a problem with "satin" finishes like you're talking about, but with a gloss finish, I would think it could be a problem -- perhaps not.

At any rate, I'm definitely planning to try some of this. The problem now, of course is finding Deft. I'll check my local Ace Hdwr.

Thanks for the great tip and tutorial. Gotta love WC! ...GG

Duh . . . ?

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

What's, um, "MWOP"?

Sounds vaguely like a derogatory ethnic characterization, but that can't fit into this discussion, so . . . .???

Re: Wally and David!

Wally Dickerman in Arizona

Gary, I should mention, I use Deft in one day classes because we need a very fast drying finish. By polishing immediately after applying Deft I get a quick dry to the touch first coat finish. If oil is applied over the deft it doesn't do much penetrating. In my own shop, if I'm doing an oil finish I don't use a Deft first coat...I want good penetration.

I believe that's Minwax Wipe On Poly....