Help from flatboard workers

Re: Why is it inferior? OBG?

Bruce, a MN Galoot

I don’t think it’s inferior, either, but it seems that OBG has a quicker tack time. I prefer Titebond liquid hide glue for sliding dovetails because it doesn’t grab as quickly. For everything else, that quick tack doesn’t matter as much.

Brown glue's Achilleas heel

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

I liquidated our left over inventory of cedar recently and part of the deal was to teach one of the customers about making M&T joints. The "student" turned out to be a molecular biologist. I had a bottle of Titebond hide on the bench which started a discussion about how it works.

To dissolve hide protein in water the coiled up protein must be uncoiled (denatured). Urea, as well as other chemicals, can be used to accomplish the uncoiling which enables solution in water. Urea is unstable in water. It comes apart to make ammonia. Ammonia is a base. Bases attack proteins and chop them into small pieces. The glue relies on the protein remining intact to be strong. Brown glue is reported to be formulated with urea. If you smell ammonia in your Brown glue it is on its way to destruction.

Titebond uses a chemical that does not degrade the protein over time to uncoil the protein. Hence, longer shelf life, less risk of bond failure from decomposition. Unless there is some property of Brown glue that is superior to Titebond it would seem prudent to choose a glue that avoided bond failure from protein decomposition.

Re: Why is it inferior?

Charlie

It's not, hence the quotation marks.

If a joint fails while the maker is still alive, it had nothing to do with the glue.

If a joint fails after the maker is gone, it's better that it not take a lot of the wood with it. Hide glue tends to have that characteristic. It's not a guarantee of course, but it's been around long enough that we know a little something about it. Other glues have a relatively short history.

Re: Brown glue's Achilleas heel

Charlie

That's good to know.

Re: Reply

Charlie

I use the Franklin product. I have used OBG, but the Franklin gets to Memphis quicker so I use it. It has been around a long time. I trust it.

The test I referred to happened to have used OBG for the liquid hide glue part of the comparison, probably because Patrick Edwards is a contributing editor to the magazine.

Patrick Edwards might be able to address your other concerns, or the people at FW involved in the test.

I think we're on the same page.

Misinterpretation

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

Because of urea formulation Brown glue is less stable then Titebond and in that regard "inferior". I did not imply that hide glue is inferior to other types, though it may be under some circumstances, for example high humidity according to data from a research study.

Re: Misinterpretation

Charlie

I use the Franklin product. I'm willing to accept that I ended up there by chance. I am not a chemist.

You can make regular hide glue waterproof by adding aluminum sulfate. There are lots of ways to "tweak" regular hide glue. I'm not interested in any of them.

Again, I just buy Franklin and call it a done deal. For regular hide glue, I've been buying the product from Tools for Working Wood. I've already burned up one Hold Heet pot. You might recall a thread a while back where I was looking for a new one. David Weaver, God love his soul, sold me his unused pot.

This isn't my first rodeo.

Drawer planing fixture update.....

roger lance

I did make an additional arm/support......made it wider than the other two.....and made it with some attention to how the jig would be stored. By cutting a couple of tabs on the center arm and corresponding grooves/rebates on the other two arms, I got a nice simple storage solution......

O'Connell should love this!

Bruce McCrory

But, I think he is screwed. I suggest he use hide glue which is reversible after a mistake, or change of mind.

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Any hide glue will work.

Re: Drawer planing fixture update.....

Charlie

Love your bench!

Re: Drawer planing fixture update.....

roger lance

Thanks Charlie.....if it could cook, I'd have married it years ago...... ......

Don't ask where the tuxedo was made...

Bruce McCrory

Yes, if we're providing advice and pictorial tutorials to our peers then one might as well cut to the chase.

The measure of how well a drawer has been cut and assembled is the joint line on the inside. Full stop.

Charlie, I think your discussion is about munched up wood lines that are exposed:

The only people who take a magnifying glass to joints, or tuxedo tailors, are the ones you may not want to know. Just make sure the crotch seam is sewn.;) And, be happy with your own work.

I will slip in a BTW, now. I am sure "no allowance for end trimming"--your "inside line" conundrum--is a really hard wood that fights steel, and experience. Derek's undercutting and starting waste removal at the joint line is probably safer than chancing chipping of such brittle species when starting waste removal a distance from the knife line. It definitely cuts down on the work involved.

A third difference is Lowe's target audience which won't be attacking Jarrah at the moment.

Re: Don't ask where the tuxedo was made...

Charlie

There was a time when I had twenty suits hanging in my closet and not a single one of them was off-the-rack.

Seems like ten lifetimes ago.

For what I was paying, you can bet your a$$ the inside seams looked as tidy as the ones that showed.

What a life! Wouldn't trade any of it for anything.

At least you know where to look...

Cheers.

Re: Drawer planing fixture update.....

Charlie

Love, love, love that set up.

I'm working under a carport right now (long story). We had an ice storm a few weeks ago and lost power for several days. More storms predicted for today which will probably compromise a system that the utility company had to piece back together with bailing wire. Many, many trees in Memphis too close to power lines. I probably have close to two tons of just pine tree branches sitting waiting to be picked up by the city. Of course, in true Neanderthal fashion, I cut them all up with a bow saw. It took two days. I have a row of debris four feet high and about 60 feet long. Just from the trees in my yard. Major hit.

Potential straight line wind storm today. The last one we had several years ago in August known as "Hurricane Elvis" knocked our power out for eight days. Ice storm in 1994 -- 14 days. Lost power for a couple of hours earlier today apparently just because it rained (real storm expected to hit in an hour or so).

We get ice, we get tornadoes, we get straight line wind storms. Thinking about moving to a new city.

Re: Drawer planing fixture update.....

Charlie

*baling* wire.

Re: Drawer planing fixture update.....

roger lance

Charlie.....where are you??......your weather doesn't sound much different from mine here in GR.

Re: Drawer planing fixture update.....

Wiley Horne

Memphis is a way colder place than anyone would think looking at the map location. Especially when the wind is whipping.

Re: Drawer planing fixture update.....

John Jardin

Charlie,

The temp here is 81 degrees.

Rockler just opened store # 38.

Life is good.

No more cold and snow.

Think Florida - it will add years to your life!

Re: Drawer planing fixture update.....

Charlie

Memphis....

More yard work over the past few days. This storm wasn't as bad as the ice storm but the wind was strong enough to finish off some of the branches the ice storm didn't quite finish off.

Sick of it.

Re: Drawer planing fixture update.....

Charlie

Memphis is notorious for temps hovering just over freezing, high humidity, and a piping wind. When I was still working in an office, we had a lady from Minnesota that could not stand what she called "Memphis cold."

Re: Drawer planing fixture update.....

Charlie

I need to get out of one or the other extreme that's for sure.

Re: Drawer planing fixture update.....

roger lance

"Love, love, love that set-up."

Charlie.....you're a man of unusually good taste.....if your bench has to be against a wall (I wanted mine out in the shop for accessibility......but, the space is too small)......then having this arrangement is very workable......shelves......peg board ......and drawers......gives a lot of usable storage.....and provides a way to have electrical outlets at the bench.

Re: Drawer planing fixture update.....

Charlie

It's truly fantastic.

Re: Drawer planing fixture update.....

roger lance

Here's another application of a similar approach where the bench is against a wall and shelving with peg board is used for storage. This is another man cave for target shooting where you do your own reloading and ammunition development......

Re: Drawer planing fixture update.....

Charlie

Do you have a room you'd like to rent out?

Great looking reloading station. My daughter can't wait to be on her school's trap team. Two more years and she'll be old enough.