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Sorby Sandmaster

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Sorby Sandmaster

#1

Sorby Sandmaster

Kevin Gersty

>Hi All!

First of all, Happy New Year to everyone. I am considering purchasing a Sorby Sandmaster for assistance in sanding my Bowls and other turnings. I was interested to know how many other turners are using, or have used this tool for help in removing Radial Sanding Marks from turnings. Is this a good tool for the money? Before I jumped in a bought this tool, I wanted to get some comment, advice or opinions on tools of this sort. Any comments or suggestions are very much appreciated!

Kevin

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

#2

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

Dave Peebles Lyons,Ohio

>Hello Kevin,

I may take a little heat for this.... but I feel it is a waste of money. I have read of other turners that seem to have great results with the passive sanders, but I have not.

I still feel the best sanding process for bowls is power sanding. For me, it is quick and delivers great results. I use a high speed drill motor (2500 RPM) and a slower lathe speed around (400 RPM).I use the Tim Skilton pads. They are the best I have ever used. I can do a 12" bowl in just a few minutes, maybe ten minutes or so.

I tend to use what works the best for me, with the least amount of hassle. Power sanding is the best thing I have found so far.

You should also be aware that my New Years Resolution is to say exactly what I think. :)

Don't even ask me about the whole soap solution thing.:)

Best wishes and Happy New Year,

Dave

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

#3

OK vs. Good

John McAtee - Shrewsbury, MA

>Kevin, I've found the Sandmaster to be OK; but not, as Dave said, as good as a power sander. The best thing about the Sandmaster is that it's better than handpaper; however, you do have to keep the sleeve bearing well lubricated.

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

#4

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

Woodmangler

>Buying the Sandmaster was a mistake in my opinion, and I wish that I would have just bought the Sioux angle drill that I use now rather than wasted my money on the Sorby...

The Sandmaster may be better than handsanding, but it's nowhere near as efficient as powersanding and now just sits and gathers dust... although that handle might be useful!

My opinion only... ymmv :)

Marc

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

#5

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

Mark Mandell - Gone Round in New Jersey

>I'll take Dave and raise you 50.

I sent my Sandmaster back after 1 week of use. That POS spindle, notwithstanding my careful adjustment, lubrication, and cleaning, had worn a deep grove and refused to spin any longer.

Brad Packard promptly refunded my money which I then applied to a Souix 2500 rpm drill and the power sanding pads which are what I use now for bowl interiors.

Mark Mandell

drop the 2 for e-mail

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

#6

Re: Novice Turner *LINK*

Darrell Feltmate

>If you have a power sander already, make a passive sander and try one. Drill a hole in the end of a piece of wood to fit the shaft of your Velcro holder, add a drop of oil and go to it. See my web site under sanding for ideas. Personally, having made a ball bearing model, usually I could not be bothered with a passive sander.


Wood Turnings by Darrell Feltmate

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

#7

Put the money into a drill

Mike Brazeau

>I agree with Dave and the others. This tool sits in my pile of disappointed purchases. Only works intermittently, oil drops spray if not extremely careful, etc. etc. I bought on impulse after Sorby demo at Toronto Woodshow, and regretted it ever since! If you have a B&D outlet store nearby, you can pick up a drill for probably $20 and even if it only lasts a year or two, you will be much happier in the long run.

I also I find that particularly on Natural Edge bowls I often use the drill and 2" disk to sand when the piece is not rotating.

In general I like Sorby tools and have a great deal of respect for them, but this one should be withdrawn or improved with better bearings.

My first post of the New Year. Happy New year to all.

Mike

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

#8

Re: Put the money into a drill

reaneptune

>I agree with all, my first sanding tool was a Sorby and with all the lubrication It has wobbled out a big hole in the shaft. Also oiling the thing is dicy because it splatters everywhere if your extra careful. Also the velcro pad is coming apart from the foam cushion underneath. I have only had the tool for seven months. Try power sanding or make your own Sorby tool with a good bearing in the shaft.

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

#9

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

Jim Pugh

>I think you have your answer on the Sorby sandmaster. I suggest the original sander with a bearing in it. Sorry, can't think of the name. It is worth the effort to get it.

Now, as for passive sanding, it has it's place, usually after power sanding. I find that for me, power sanding makes marks that are difficult to remove and that a careful use of the passive sander speeds up that process. Also, contrary to the experience of others, I find that the careful sanding of a bowl takes nearly as long as it did to turn it, regardless of method.

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

#10

Re: Put the money into a drill

Floyd Knapp

>You can make your own passive sander using an inline skate wheel which will be ballbearing eliminating the oil problem.You may have to use a bushing to fit the shaft of the velcro pad.. Probably won't cost you anythimg.

Floyd

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

#11

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

Marc Phillips

>"Also, contrary to the experience of others, I find that the careful sanding of a bowl takes nearly as long as it did to turn it, regardless of method."

That is an interesting statement to me because I am just now "advancing" past the point in my turning where I have to think about tool control, etc. and I am also just now able to turn a bowl and have it come out the way I had envisioned.

I turned this bowl a couple of days ago, and really spent at least as long on the sanding and waxing as I did on the turning. This is a culmination of both increased skill in the actual turning, and also my desire to advance in this hobby.

I used the advice I received and did a lot of the power sanding with the lathe off... and I was really pleased with the results... certainly a lot better than my previous efforts, although it's hard to tell with the lousy pics (that's next on my agenda... better pics!)

I will now be spending a lot more time and effort on the sanding part.... it seems to me, based on my limited experience turning bowls, that it really is worth the effort.


Marc

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

#12

Tip for bowl interiors

Bob Hackett

>Don`t you just hate those two areas where the sidegrain meets the endgrain?You know those places that fuzz up at the slightest provocation,that is when they aren`t tearing out.

Instead of reaching for the 60 grit and drill just open the drawer that has all your card scrapers in it(You do have them,don`t you?)and pull out a curved cabinet scraper.A scraper will tame that problem far quicker than sandpaper and doesn`t leave swirls.

You can thank my brother Bill for this tip.

Mainely,Bob-Who still has the red mark on his forehead.The one where you smack yourself for not thinking if that sooner.Think a card scraper would take that off?

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

#13

Re: No

Mark Mandell - Gone Round in New Jersey

>It won't. I tried that.

[It does, however, fade with time provided you don't "renew" it.]

Mark

drop the 2 for mail

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

#14

Sorby Sandmaster & Sanding Devices

George Troy Hurlburt

>Happy New Year All,

I have the Sorby Sanding master it is used on bowl bottoms more than any place else. My favorite sander is the Vic Wood self-powered sander. I use this sander more than any other. I do mostly segmented turning in both open and closed forms. In the photo you will also see a flap sander, and a bulb sander used with an extension. The bulb sander in various grits will get the bumps and nubs off the bottom. In segmented turning that bottom should be smooth from the get go of course. I have done a lot of oak in my time and I have found that power sanding and hand sanding gives you an uneven surface(that's ugly). The Vic Wood sander virtually elminates that. I only use power sanding when I have too and have no other choice. My arthritis in my hands makes attaching the Power-lock difficult anymore. Yes use it or lose it. I do have the prerequiste Angle Drill. I will spell it loud and clear now. I have no scratches with the Vic Wood sander, sanding life is wonderful now. Get the Vic Wood sander you don't really need the Sorby, I'm sure in time it will wear out. GT


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Re: Sorby Sandmaster

#15

Earlier Review of Passive Sanders

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>Here is the passive sander portion of the comprehensive review I did on sanding devices for More Woodturning.

1. Passive Rotary:

I�m completely set up with electric and pneumatic sanding systems, but I still find that passive sanding tools are often my first choice. The abrasive pad is rotated by the action of the object turning on the lathe. The more the sanding disk is pressed against its own periphery (as opposed to flat against the wood), the faster the disk will turn.

Put briefly:

Passive sanders have these advantages

� They are quiet

� They tend to strew less dust around

� They tend to operate slower and cooler, making it less likely to have heat checking and

more likely to achieve longer abrasive life.

� The rotational direction of the sanding pad/head is easily reversed by changing the way the

pad is applied to the work. By changing the direction of rotation both sides of the abrasive

particles, the effective life of the abrasive disk is greatly increased.

� They have no power cords or air hoses to tangle and pull, or bump into your turning.

� They are lighter

� In general, they are smaller and some handle shapes are much more conducive to working

inside narrow forms.

� Some models allow for a the head to be adjusted over a 340 degree angle, allowing

them to work somewhat under lips and in confined spaces.

� Some passive sanders are capable of extending deeper into narrow vessels than any

powered drill/sander

� A single unit will cost less than most powered drills, and is essentially maintenance free.

� They can be used for wet sanding without fear of electrocution or equipment damage.

� Some find they offer more feedback from the wood and more control over the sanding.

Passive sanders have these disadvantages:

� They require the lathe to be turning for them to operate.

� There is yet to be a single handle shape optimal for both internal and external use.

� They are not really adaptable to rotating shaft extensions.

� They have limited ability to be used with the entire abrasive disk flat against the wood.

� Some make changing/replacing the basic pad difficult to impossible to achieve (Vic

Woods style), or the interchangeable parts are not commonly available (Grip-a-Disk).

There is a small range of styles and sizes of pads that are available or suitable for

most that do allow replacement.

� They are more expensive compared to already having a suitable drill or sander. Particularly

if you feel you need more than one.

a. Grip-a-Disk:� This British Sander comes in models with holders to take either two or three inch sandpaper discs. Included with the sander is a mandrel that will allow you to transfer the holder to a drill chuck for power sanding. The holder will take either thick soft foam backed abrasive disks also called �Grip-a-disk� or regular Velcro backed ones. I usually use a subsidiary Innerface backing pad that helps preserve the Velcro on the sander and will fly off if the sander gets rapped badly (which I see as a feature).

One advantage of this passive sander is that it has an articulating head that can be set at numerous angles so you can position the sanding head at roughly right angles to the handle to deal with external sanding or internal sanding up near the wings of natural edge bowls, or set it inline with the handle for the bottom of bowls. However, while the Grip-a-disk allows for articulation, it is slightly troublesome and time consuming to adjust (though it locks really well, once set). The two inch version is better than the three inch version for dealing with the inside of most bowls, though the 3 inch is slightly easier to use on the outside. The included holder is thin and hard, allowing it to get into narrow under-clings and grooves. When more padding is desired, use the foam backed Grip-A-Disk abrasives or just add one of the Performance Abrasive Innerface pads to obtain the padding of your choice. The mostly wood handle is approximately 9 inches to the pivot point of the head. The drive shaft is coupled to the head via ball bearings.

b. Sorby has introduced a passive sander very similar to the Grip-a-Disk, and like it, is available in both 2 inch and 3 inch versions. Though it resembles the Grip-a-Disk, and may be easier to find, I find it is much the inferior of the units. The Sorby pad is very thick (almost 3/4 inch), which limits the spaces it can enter into, and offers less control of density. The locking knob that adjusts the head is massive in comparison to the head and the knob gets in the way of properly positioning the head within some forms (but does make for quick and easy adjustment of head angle over a range in excess of 90 degrees). One could substitute an Allen head bolt to reduce the bulk of the locking mechanism, but at the price of giving up the ability to easily lock the head with your fingers. The bearings are phosphor bronze sleeves that Sorby says should be regularly oiled (leaving the slight possibility of transferring machine oil to the wood of your turning which can stain or interfere with some finishes). The rotating shaft protrudes from the end of the head, which makes it awkward to grip the sander at the back of the head. It just amazes me that this copy of the Grip-A-Disk is so inferior in design to the original. Please don�t judge the performance of passive sanders by this tool.

c. VicWoods: This passive sander has been available in a couple of configurations over the years, sometimes having a handle of fine hardwood and more often a plastic handle. The handle is short, at a little over six inches, and for one handed use is functionally shorter as the drive shaft is permanently affixed at a right angle approximately 4.5 inches from the end. However, this location makes it easier to use a two handed grip (one on each side of the drive shaft) for external sanding. The short drive shaft is couple to the handle through sealed ball bearings, and ends in a thick rubber holding pad of roughly hemispherical shape. The thick pad can develop tears after extended use, but I�ve always been able to repair them successfully with Barge cement. The tool with its 3 inch diameter holder is best suited for external sanding using a two handed grip. It works very well, and I find it to approximate the efficiency of a powered sander, but without the noise.

d. Soren Berger: Soren Berger offers two versions of what he calls his �Free-Wheel Sander.� I have not used these, so I am basing my description on the information from his web site. He makes a short handled version, that sets the drive head at 45 degrees, and an 18 inch long handled version where the head is fixed inline with the metal handle. The long handle is notable in that it is hollow and allows one to attach a vacuum to the distal end. According to Soren, when a small hole is made in the center of the abrasive disk, the long hollow handle can effectively channel a lot of the sanding dust directly into the vacuum. Both heads use a thick, tapered, foam pad and are meant to take 3 inch Velcro backed abrasives. Apparent drawbacks to these devices are that their head does not articulate, which I find essential for interior work, and the large heads limit the size of the curve they can follow.

e. LJM Passive Sander: A passive sander with double ball bearings and all metal head that can use almost any size sanding pad, can mount to a broad range of handles and shafts, and can be used for both internal and external sanding. Directions and diagrams for construction are included in a side bar.

Until recently, neither the commercial nor homemade passive designs dealt well with the interior of small bowls, deep vases, semiclosed forms, and fairly narrow mouthed hollow forms. In these settings, a design I developed works best, and often is likely to be the only design that will work at all. The tighter internal curves, the more constrained shape of the forms, and the narrower mouths of hollow forms and vases require a smaller sanding pad. One and 1.5 inch pads often will work in these settings when others will not (though a 1.5 to 2 inch abrasive hemisphere might be about perfect). For internal use, one may need to be able to adjust the angle of presentation, sometimes several times, and other designs, do not allow for the articulation that is necessary for these forms, nor do they address the need for a smaller pad in the more constrained places.

Thus the advantages to the design I offer are multiple. It allows for easy replacement of pads and easy conversion between pad sizes. It allows for quick, easy, and wide adjustment of approach angle, it allows for easy movement between various handle lengths and styles. Just within the Stewart family you can use a straight handle, a pistol grip handle (which works great for small to medium hollow forms), an Omnitool or SuperOmni for deep forms, and you can even bolt it up to the Hooker (and if you want, you can add a Sorby RS2000 side handle). It also will fit the Jamieson boring bars. Using such shafts and handles, it will work well over a standard toolrest (almost essential for interior work on hollow forms) and works wonderfully with the gated and pin style tool rests. If you don't like or have the Stewart style handles, you can make your own out of some steel rod or even hardwood dowel.

Thus this design will perform more tasks and interchange between them more quickly than any other passive or active system I am aware of. You can go from a 90 degree short handle with 3 inch hard pad to a 45 degree long shaft on a pistol handle using a 1 inch pad, and make the entire change in less than 30 seconds. I'm not trying to promote this design as wildly original or desirable for every turning use, but I have found it to be one of the most useful sanders in my arsenal.

f. Commercial Internal Passive Sander: Recently a device has come out variously called the �Infinity Boring Bar Sander� or simply the �Angle Sander.� This appears to be a commercial approximation of the free plans I�ve offered for several years. It is made up of an aluminum head with dual ball bearings and is supplied with two 5/16 inch shanks; one angled, one straight. These shanks should fit in most boring bars (e.g., Jamieson, Omnitool Scorpion Straight shaft), but the head is not set up for attachment to a Hooker like tool. The 2 inch sanding pad is replaceable, and a 3 inch pad may be substituted.

g. Home made: Passive sanders are an easy project. Herman de Vries has long offered directions on how to make your own ( http://www.hdv.net/ ), and there are additional plans to be found on the forums and newsgroups. Joe Fleming has suggested a very easy to make version which involves simply mounting a round Velcro disk holder to a rollerblade wheel. I haven�t tried these, but they offer a very inexpensive way to conduct your own experiments with passive sanding.

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

#16

Re: Tip for Bowl Interiors

Dennis J. Gooding

>I also find that a curbed cabinet scraper works well for this purpose in the (ahem) rare occasions that I get tearout in a bowl. IMHO it works best if you roll a burr on the scraper and run the lathe at a very slow speed with the scraper angled to do a shear scrape. (A high speed is very dangerous anyhow if you are holding onto a sharp scraper.) Dennis

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

#17

Re: Earlier Review of Passive Sanders

Kevin Gersty

>A BIG thank you to everyone for your response to my post reagarding the Sandmaster. I have decided this item is not for me. It may be a great tool, but I think I will persue other applications. I really appreciate the input, thanks again!

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

#18

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

revdoug

>Until today, I've used the Vic passive sander with what I thought were great results. Yes, the sanding job took longer than I knew it would with power sanding, But the finish was pretty good.

I said, "until today." Just finished a bowl and used the 2" star disks on my drill. The entire job took less than 1/2 the time and the final finish was much better. I still have some of the disks for the Vic, but I think I'll use those 3" disks on my 2" drill pad and use them up. That, or use them by hand on flat work.

Buy a good drill and a power sanding system to use with the drill. You'll be glad you did in the long run.

Turn 'em round,

RevDoug

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

#19

Dick Hines

Re: Sorby Sandmaster & Sanding Devices

Dick Hines

>George, where did you get the bulb sander?I have been looking for something like that to sand the inside of vases.

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

#20

Re: Sorby Sandmaster & Sanding Devices

George Troy Hurlburt

>Hi Dick,

I got the bulb sander from www.turnaboutwood.com

This store is in KCMO. You will also need the little pump for it.

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

#21

SIOUX SLOW SPEED DRILL

Julie

>This looks like a pretty good price, I have heard that Coastal Tools up in Hartford has great customer service.

http://www.coastaltool.com/cgi-bin/...6b5f+1073024766

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

#22

Braver than I am

Bob Hackett

>I do my scraping off the lathe.

MB

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

#23

Re: SIOUX SLOW SPEED DRILL

Greg

>Speaking of these angled drills, which would most of you recommend - 3/8" or the 1/2"? The 1/2" only goes to 750, but if that preferable? The 1/2" head is slightly longer, but only by .2". I am considering getting one for my sanding, not really drilling. Suggestions? Thanks!

Re: Sorby Sandmaster

#24

Dick Hines

Re: Sorby Sandmaster & Sanding Devices

Dick Hines

>Thanks George.

👍 This page answered my questions

Your vote helps other woodworkers quickly find the answers and techniques that actually work in the shop.