CPM 3V vs. CPM M4 ?

Re: Diamond wheels? Who brought up diamond wheels?

TomD

Well actually there are quite a few references to wheels in this thread. Both the vitreous type and the diamond type. I think I was responding to your comment re turners in your book length response. I may have got it out of context I thought it was a dry diamond wheel you were referring to, since the turners seem to love those. But don't worry, I don't expect you to keep up with this thread any more than me.

Re: You bet.

TomD

"Humor us. If using woods that are hard on edges is "abusing tools", i'm really at a loss for words. I mean really, really at a loss."

No wood would not normally be the issue. It would be how the chisel is used, like prying, or making perp scraping actions. If a chisel was absolutely edge holding, one could do whatever would produce a useful result, pry open paint can, scrape paint off the stone floor, etc... I do think it is perfectly reasonable to suggest that part of the range of appeal to various tools could be due to the way in which those tools are used, both properly, or otherwise. One can cut mortises with more efficiency than another, or with no prying action at all. There could easily be a 2.3 times edge holding difference for that kind of stuff alone.

Re: Just out of curiosity,

Bruce, a MN Galoot

One of my machinist friends tells me that his fellow machinists have a hard time believing the finished surfaces he gets from his lathe and line-boring machines. He tells them to learn to sharpen their tools, and while I agree I don't understand. (he makes his living rebuilding engines - my Goldwing wouldn't run without his help) I guess I'll have to ask him to demonstrate what kind of finish he puts on his edged tooling.

There I went again.

David Barnett

"I may have got it out of context I thought it was a dry diamond wheel you were referring to..."

Ah... makes sense. My bad. Mea culpa.

I have certainly been loose in my descriptions, vague in my nomenclature, and weak in the diction of specificity. I fully acknowledge this. But as you say, at "book length", it's hard to get it all in, although more often than not, it comes from the common fallacy of thinking because I know what I mean, others will, as well -- ah, for a blood-n-guts editor, heh.

Also, I notice I've said wheel on more than one occasion, although not lately, I don't think, when I should've said disc.

One of my recent challenges is that for the most part, when I'm typing in my reply window, I am navigating somewhat blind, or at least, with reduced vision. This can change throughout the day, depending on ambient light, fatique, blood glucose levels, and so on, so until I actually post and can better see what I've written in a larger format, I don't proof or edit as well or as often. Believe me, I make good use of WC's two-hour editing window. I'm exploring some new technologies, so maybe I'll get better at this.

Consider too, that with two cups of strong Cuban coffee, I can write thirty pages in nothing flat, so everyone should consider themselves lucky, believe me.

Grinding Temperatures

Steve Elliott

I don't know what the temperature is at which diamond starts to dissolve into an iron matrix, but the fact that ordinary carbon steel (not just high speed steel) is not ground using diamond suggests that the problem starts somewhere below red heat.

In my experience diamond excels at fine honing but has less of an advantage over other abrasives in coarser grits. Maybe it's just a matter of not having found a way to really embed coarse diamond grit in the proper substrate, but for quick metal removal I like a power grinder. I haven't used CBN wheels myself (too pricey) and find the more commonly available grinding wheels to be more than adequate for my needs.

Your closing line reminds me of Dan O'Neill,

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

a San Francisco cartoonist of the 1960s (Odd Bodkins was the series), who stopped submitting strips to the paper at one point because he'd gotten completely confused by his own strip.

Great cartoons, for those with a sufficiently bent perspective on that period.

Re: Bravo!

TomD

I just cut that in, but I have that article from it's original issue, lying around in the room at all times. Got even more interesting over the last few years.

(Message Deleted by Poster)

David Barnett

Re: Bravo!

TomD

Yeah that is the one.

Re: There I went again.

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

If I were to compose long messages (unlikely, I worship at the feet of succint, if I had more time it would be shorter, etc.), I would compose and correct in a word processor, then copy and paste into the reply box.

That said, and at the risk of enticing you to write even longer messages, Dragon Naturally is pretty capable these days.

Pam

Christ all mighty...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

Would some one get me a Quaalude and a double scotch

Yet another new metal (long)

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

In all the discussions of various steels for woodworking, I have yet to hear anyone mention the newest and, potentially, most exciting metal yet. News of this revolutionary metal is only beginning to reach the woodworking press and others, and it has not yet proven possible for anyone to come by a sample for testing. The following information is from the website of Munchausen Machine Works, the company that developed it.

�We are pleased to announce that we are just weeks away from production of the ultimate metal for cutting tools, C3PO 2BRNT2B. This metal, made from an alloy of 97% unobtainium and 3% dilithium, is capable of being tempered to a Rockwell hardness of 1,000 with a concurrent toughness of 99 on the Chirpy scale (similar to the Charpy scale, but using mile-tons instead of foot-pounds) and stiffness of 1,948 newtons per meter.

�Heat treatment is surprisingly simple: heat until the metal shows a tartan pattern (Buchanan on one side of the metal and MacAlister on the other � this turns out to be quite useful, as will be seen a little later) and quench in coffee (French roast is best). Temper for 30 minutes at 425 degrees. Interestingly, optimum temper is reached when the 2BRNT2B is exposed to trace gases from tomato sauce, cheese, and pepperoni during tempering, a chance discovery by a swing shift technician who noted that the tempering schedule is the same as that needed for bake-your-own pizza, and decided to use the oven efficiently by baking his evening meal during a tempering cycle.

�Because of the high hardness and toughness values possible, the company hones all chisels and plane irons before they leave the factory, and offers a lifetime sharpness warranty for home use. For the rare commercial setting in which sharpening may be needed, however, honing is easy; a few harsh words are enough (if you�re a small business owner, you may find it most efficient to take the edge tool home and announce to your significant other, �Honey, look at this neat chisel/plane iron/knife. I only paid [whole number between 1 and 9 followed by a whole bunch of zeros] for it!� Be sure to hold the tool directly in front of you at the desired honing angle while saying this).

�The molecular bond between the unobtainium and the dilithium is unique to science: the dilithium atoms line up facing one side of the material as it is forged. As a result, 2BRNT2B offers different weight properties depending on how it is quenched (the physicists haven�t figured this out yet; fortunately, we have plenty of pizza, so they never have to leave their labs while working on the answer). Quenching with the Buchanan tartan up will result in a very light product, useful, for example, for wide chisels in production settings; quenching with the MacAlister tartan up results in a product so heavy that an experimental coffin smoothing infill plane made from balsa wood and aluminum foil weighed 17 pounds with a 1/32� iron installed.

�Specifications for 2BRNT2B were released to the manufacturers last year, so that they could ramp up production quickly once it became available. At this time, we are proud to announce that Stanley Tool Works and Garage Door Opener Company will be using it in their soon-to-be-released Sweetie-Pie line of tools, the next step up from the Sweetheart line currently offered.�

---------------------

Apologies to all the knowledgeable folks who�ve been presenting voluminous fact and thoughtful analysis of the application of some of the modern steels to woodworking in this really quite impressive thread. I can resist just about everything except temptation, including the temptation to make a complete fool of myself. Do note the date of the post; I beg forgiveness.

But Bee-wee,we wuv you...

Bob Hackett

Please don`t explode .

Way to go Bill !

Bob Hackett

We`re so glad you didn`t explode.

Priceless

Phil Smith

Almost spilled coffee all over keyboard and computer screen this morning I laughed so hard.

Finally!

John in NM

I got a chuckle out of all this hissy fit tantrum

Thanks Scott

Re: But Bee-wee,we wuv you...

Bob Hackett

This proclamation is usually is aimed at my oldest son Bill during his most frustrating(for him) moments. After saying this in a loud voice I chase him around flapping my arms and attempting to give him a big hug. If I manage to catch him (he`s a pretty fast runner) I jump up and down while hugging him and then kiss the top of his head repeatedly.He loves it,he pretends he doesn`t but I know he does.

It`s especially effective if a group of his friends are there to see it.

"...but I know he does..."

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

Probably only the first two years of therapy will be necessary to recover from having that done to him.

We do what we can

Bob Hackett

He is family after all.

Aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

Now I need a few more Scotches and a a few Percocet.

Would somebody PLEASE shoot me!

Re: Aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Marv

This must be the longest thread since we last discussed the nib on handsaws.

Marv

How do you sharpen your nib,Marv?

Bob Hackett

Re: How do you sharpen your nib,Marv?

Marv

Bob,

Do you want the short answer or the long answer?

Marv

Re:Length of thread

Moses Yoder

Well just to get a perspective on the length of this thread, I have read the entire Bible but I am not reading this whole thread. I asked Roy Underhill and he advised against it.

Re:Length of thread

Marv

Moses,

I asked Roy about reading the entire bible and he advised against it, especially all the begats and begots in the beginning. He also said there is nothing about woodworking except the part about someone being a carpenter. I was wondering if Disston was producing handsaws in those days and if the saws had a nib. The No.7 has a nib, the very first saw that Disston marketed but it's not known for sure if the very first No.7 had a nib.

Only straight back saws had a nib, but not all straight back saws had one.

For those who have a need to know.... a nib on a panel saw is called a "niblet"

A saw that once had a nib but no longer has one is called a "nibless" saw. Same for a saw that never had one originally.

My mind is beginning to wander....now I'm wondering how Noah cut all the large timbers to build the ark. Maybe he had a Docking saw. But how did he saw the timbers from trees in the first place?

The proper definition of a nib is the metal writing point of an ink pen. Try doing that with a handsaw.

Marv