Help choosing a plane

All together now, "the best next plane....

Derek Cohen (in Perth Australia)

>......is the Veritas Low Angle Jack Plane".

Regards from Perth

Derek

Depends

Ron in Kokomo

>Your budget will dictate some of this.

I know that you can do excellent work with a 50 year old Stanley number 5 with an iron upgrade. (I am partial to Hock irons because I have had wonderful results with several of them)

There is a hollowed article in the archives about tuning a handplane written by our own RJ Whelan that should tell you all you need to know about tuning. Is the Lie Nelson a better tool??? probably but you'll have 4 times the investment in it

BUT a jack of some kind should be your next plane because it will function as stock remover, a smoother, and a jointer, till you can get those planes.

Ask two woodworkers

Neal White in San Jose

>and you'll get three opinions! As has been said, it all depends on what you intend to do. Old planes are wonderful, and are what I like, but is your hobby woodworking or fettling (tuning) planes? New planes from the top makers will require essentially no fettling but at a higher initial cost.

For my money, if I were in your shoes, I'd probably go for a 4 1/2. A very useful plane that can do anything from very fine smoothing to jointing to hogging off stock - it just depends on how you set it up. A real benefit is that the blade is interchangeable with a 7, so you can tune blades for special tasks, or even buy an extra one to be tuned special. The 7, of course, would be NEXT YEAR'S birthday present. Ya gotta plan ahead!

Re: Help choosing a plane

Jerry Nicholson

>Old Stanley's are fun to play with and neat to look at but you will need to invest $70 or more in upgraded irons and chip breakers to make them really useful on hardwood. I like the heavier ones, 4 1/2 and 5 1/2 but my LV Bevel Up smoother is my first choice. With a birthday coming up, the LV low angle jack is on the list. I won't get rid of my Stanleys and Sargents and I will still use them but the LVs will get a lot more use.

Jerry

Re: Help choosing a plane

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

>Hi Jefff,

If I could pick one plane it would be the LN 5.5. Long enough to joint a board and short enough to smooth it.

Dan Clermont

Re: Not All together

Dean in Burlington

>that's your opinion.....not everyones.

?????

Ron in Kokomo

>All I had to do was put in a Hock iron and have a whole lot less than 70 bucks in it. It is hard to imagine a plane that works better than my Stanley 5 and it took me about 2 hours to complete the fettling.

Not sure I agree

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>I haven't done a lot of work in hardwoods, but I've been able to plane quartersawn oak, rays and all, walnut, cherry, and birch quite successfully with several different Stanley planes with the factory irons in them. I don't have experience with the aftermarket irons, though I know many people like them, and I'm sure I would too - but I've been getting by just fine so far.

Bill, bottom-rust-feeder

Re: Help choosing a plane

Stephen in Ottawa

>Jeff,

That question has been asked and answered several times already. A search in the archives will yeild a lot of information. The answer, ofcourse, depends on what you want to do with the plane. You can use bench planes for roughing work, smoothing work or somewhere in between. Check out Chris S's article in a recent PW issue ( not the last one, one before, I think ) on "coarse", "medium" and "fine" woodworking ( I'm paraphrasing, don't remember the actual title of the article ). If you'd rather use planes for joinery, either cutting joints or cleaning them up, there are a lot to choose from as well. There is more of a learning curve in using joinery planes, in my opinion at least.

Anyhow, if you want to select a good bench plane for small to medium sized projects, I'd suggest a 5 1/2, as Dan has mentioned. I wouldn't use it for coarse work. If you have to remove a lot of material get an old Stanley #5 and put in an aftermarket blade, I prefer LN blades, and grind a camber on it. The 5 1/2's iron is too wide for that and you'd have to waste that by putting a large camber on it. It is convenient to use as a small jointer plane, though, as well as a smoothing plane. It has good heft. LN makes an excellent 5 1/2 which, in my mind is a good investment if you want to continue using hand planes.

Regards,

- Stephen

Re: Help choosing a plane

Bruce Branson

>LN 62

Re: All together now, "the best next plane....

Bob Fawcett

>I agree with Derek.

The LV LA Jack was actually my first plane and is still the most used.

Re: Help choosing a plane

dave caudill

>For some reason I'm not a big fan of the #5. Not sure why but I prefer so many other planes to a #5. You sure are covering a wide bit of space with this question Jeff. When I think jewelry boxes the first thing that came to mind was a #3. I love using a #3 and do when ever it makes sense. On the other hand a blanket chest makes me think of a #7 for jointing and a #6 maybe for smoothing. I have a $30 #7 with a Hock blade that is kind of a dog to look at but man does it wokr great. Then I have a newer #6 that my mom bought for five bucks at a yard sale and it is one of my best smoothers. I too have an incredible pull to the an old Stanley 4 1/2 when it comes to an all around smoother. On the other hand its tough to beat a #4 for all around use. Then there is the 5 1/4 that is so nice for small projects and frames for doors and other narrow work. Same size as the #3 but longer. Then there is the LN 164 low angle block plane which is really a #4 sized low angle smoother. Used it the other night on some tought cherry and oh it was a dream. While I have a number of LN planes I always look first for an old Stanley and fit it with a Hock blade and go. They really are hard to argue with for the price and its lots of fun getting them cleaned up and back to use. Its my favorite form of recycling. I'm not sure I hleped here but it was fun to talk.

One thing I think you need to keep in mind is that plane sizes and uses are just recommendations. You can use any plane you want for any use you want, within reason of course. You are going to have to buy some planes and try them to develop your own favorite planes and decide what they work best for. For now just get one that seems to offer the most functionality for current and future use and go for it. Its quite unlikely you will find it of no use. If so then move on and don't worry about it. Lifes too short and the clocks a tickin.

Dave

Re: Help choosing a plane

David W. Dougherty

>I'm a LN owner and do most of my work with a 4.5HAF, 5.5, and 7 (I also have a bunch of specialty planes, etc.). Recently, I purchased all of the LV BU planes. I then built two basic hardwood toolboxes, starting with rough-sawn wood. I built one with the new LV planes, and the other with my LNs. I was not impressed with the BU planes. I just couldn't get them to do what I wanted to do. I'm sticking with my LN planes; the LVs are boxed up and ready to be sent back.

I do, however, like the LV block planes much better than my LNs. I'm keeping those!

YMWACV (your mileage will almost certainly vary)!

David

Joking. He was joking.

Bill Houghton, sunny yahoo! in Sebastopol, CA

>Bevel up planes being flavor of the month and all.

Re: Joking. He was joking.

Derek Cohen (in Perth Australia)

>Yeah, it was a bit tongue-in-cheek. Not altogether.

The serious answer is you should get the LV LA Jack plane (LAJ). Again! OK, this time I will explain (last night at 2:00 am was not a good time to do so!).

I heard you say that you liked the idea of another Veritas handplane and were looking to buy one, so here is the appropriate one to buy.

You already have a small block plane and a scraper plane - not much else. So the obvious plane to get is a Jack ... literally a Jack-of-all-trades. The LV LA Jack is not just any jack plane. It has great versatility, and this is important at this stage since you lack handplanes. One of the things we do as we slide deeper down the slope is we invest in planes for special tasks. So we may have fine and coarse smoothers, a jack to hog, a panel plane (which can be jack-size) to smooth large areas, a large low angle for shooting edges, and a short and long jointer. Well, it is possible that one plane can do all these tasks fairly well (as long as you are willing to put up with resetting it for each task).

Recommendations of a Stanley #5 or #5-1/2 are reasonable, but this is to be a birthday present and you want something special. Right?

The alternative is a LN #5-1/2. Terrific plane! Your choice will come down to the ease with which you are able to reset this plane verses the LAJ. Once you have seen that the LAJ will blow away the LN 5-1/2 in this area, the next is to decide whether you want the LAJ or the LN equivalent, the #62. And in this regard it is also evident that the LV is the better plane --- no doubt about it, when it comes to bevel down planes, LN rules. But when it comes to bevel up planes, LV rules.

Do your reading about the versatility of the LAJ. See for yourself what this plane can do, and how easily it can be set up to do it. Alf has a great review on the UK site, and I have a review in the Articles section here as well.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Count me in!

Denis Ch�nard, away in eastern Qu�bec

>

Derek?

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

>Derek States:

The alternative is a LN #5-1/2. Terrific plane! Your choice will come down to the ease with which you are able to reset this plane verses the LAJ. Once you have seen that the LAJ will blow away the LN 5-1/2 in this area, the next is to decide whether you want the LAJ or the LN equivalent, the #62. And in this regard it is also evident that the LV is the better plane --- no doubt about it, when it comes to bevel down planes, LN rules. But when it comes to bevel up planes, LV rules

Hi Derek,

Can you explain the LAJ blows away the LN 5 1/2 when it comes to "ease of resetting" the plane.

Most woods you plane are planed above 45 degrees. Why not just back bevel the Bevel down blade? Other then end grain most people don't plane woods at less then 45 degrees nor do many species tolerate it. The Bedrock style plane can be changed from a coarse to fine mouth quite quickly. Maybe not as fast as the BU planes but the BU planes sometimes cannot produce a tight mouth without fettling the toe piece (filing it to be parallel to the blade).

I have played with the LV BUS and LN 62 but still find the Bevel down planes to be easier to work wood with

Cheers

Dan Clermont (aka Devil's advocate)

BU again???? No way man.

Dave Thompson

>Ok, Mr LV62, this reads like a late night infomercial. ;-) "blow away"???

Seriously, though, I cringe when I hear the strong push of a #62 on a beginner, primarily because I was taken in by a similar push when I was vulnerable. Though for me LV didn't have one at the time, so it was when the LN62 came out. Great plane, but I think of it as a versatile jack...jack of all trades, master of none. Despite having an LN62, LN5, LN5.5wHAF, I use my 1940s vintage Stanley #5 for surface jointing most boards. LN5 and LN5.5 only when grain gets really tricky, or I'm doing something different than surface jointing but want a jack size plane.

#62 style is my least used plane. It's too long for smoothing, too short for edge jointing. Standard 37 degrees of the #62 is more prone to tearout of long grain. Blade adjustment, both depth and lateral is not up there with a bailey style. For all the end grain planing I've done, I have always prefer the size of a smaller #164 instead (if not #60.5), though I've never made a butcher block table.

In theory, the bevel up on a #62 has an advantage of being a poor mans adjustable frog. For anyone who has attempted to regrind a bevel knows this isn't something that's going to happen regularly. The cost of a LV or LN spare blade is more than a nice used complete #5. Who needs a jack size plane beyond 37,45,50 pitch?

The mouth adjustor is pretty nice on a #62. Though in reality, I set the mouth when I get it, and hardly touch it again. The niceness of this adjustor over sliding a frog is then lost through lack of use.

Given the number price of Stanley #62's, it appears that back in the day when the pro's using hand planes were more abundant, this wasn't the hottest of planes.

Ok Dereck, did I get things stoked up? BTW, I enjoyed your complete thorough review of the LV62.

enjoy,

Dave

PS. Regarding the original post question. I agree with others a #5 type jack plane would be among my first choices along with a block plane that you have. Other specialty planes that would compliment your power tools would be on my short list too.... like an #073, #98,#99.

I doubt it's helpful for me to say it...

Alice Frampton, UK

>... but I'd agree with Derek too. 'Course it can legitimately be pointed out that I'm not exactly a stranger to Lee Valley/Veritas, and I cannot tell a lie, 'tis true. But affiliation doesn't equate to having sold my soul.

If bevel-up isn't desirable, look out for the older, 2 1/4" wide iron. #5 1/2. The proportions are rather nicer than the "modern" width in my, and others', opinion.

Either way, the extra width of the 1/2s over the 5s is handy I reckon, as is the extra length of the 5s over the 4s, but as you can see in this thread, mileage varies considerably :~)

Cheers, Alf

Re: BU again???? No way man.

Derek Cohen (in Perth Australia)

>Can you explain the LAJ blows away the LN 5 1/2 when it comes to "ease of resetting" the plane. ... Most woods you plane are planed above 45 degrees. Why not just back bevel the Bevel down blade?

Hi Dan

Cap irons (or chip breakers) are such a pain to reset when you change blades. What's that - the BU planes don't have one? By George, you're right!

And what's that you say, a backbevel for wood above 45 degrees? Well then, what if you then wanted to plane at 45 degrees or, Heaven Forbid, use a lower angle on end grain (well they do cut more cleanly on, say, a shooting board)? Let me calculate this - you need one LN at 45 for standard planing and another one with a backbevel for higher angle planing. That makes two blades. What about the LV? One blade for standard angle and one blade for high angle. Equals two blades in all. Mmm same as the LN. OK, then what about the low angle? Oh, of course .... the BD LN can't be adjusted to do that, only the BU LV can! Gee, three blades for the LV LAJ and you have three planes. (Of course, the LN #5-1/2 only needs two blades, but then it only acts like two planes).

...so it was when the LN62 came out. Great plane, but I think of it as a versatile jack...jack of all trades, master of none. Despite having an LN62, LN5, LN5.5wHAF, I use my 1940s vintage Stanley #5 for surface jointing most boards. LN5 and LN5.5 only when grain gets really tricky, or I'm doing something different than surface jointing but want a jack size plane.

My, my Dave - that's a lot of planes you have there. Let me count what Jeff has... one .. two .. two .. oh! So when you need something to do a special job, you grab a special plane? My argument, if you recall, was that since Jeff is going to buy just one plane (and it is meant to be a birthday present, so cost is not the issue), then he needs something to use in a broad way. And as you said it, the LN62 is a "Great plane, but I think of it as a versatile jack". I agree with you and think that this is just right for his needs- just believe that the LV 62-1/2 is better than the LN 62.

Warmest regards to you both :)

Derek

The key question � what is the wife's budget?

Ian Neuhaus

>and what will make her happy by the giving ?

cheap and cheerful from ebay which will require fettling and an aftermarket blade

maybe not as cheap, but probably requiring much less fettling � purchase from a reputable dealer

something new � well go for a plane from Lee Valley, Clifton or Lie Nielsen

something bespoke � try Steve Knight or Wayne Anderson or Steiner and Saurer (sp?) but be prepared for a wait

you've got some good advice here as well as the start of another round of the perenial bevel-up vs bevel-down debate.

but if you're primarily making Jewelery boxes I'm thinking that getting a LN#3 or #4 might be teh go � although the bronze ones look great, I'd advise you to get an iron model to avoid the marks little used bronze planes can leave on the first few passes.

Then I think that maybe a LN#9 mitre might be a better choice � yes it's a very specialised plane but having one would allow you to explore perfect mitre joints on small boxes

personally I'm very partial to the LN#95 L&R pair of edge planes

as for a plane suitable for blanket and hope chests, leave the jointer length planes till a later birthday

Re: BU again???? No way man.

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

>Derek,

regarding chipbreakers:

They aren't that difficult to remove and reset. I can't even say it takes practice.

regarding planing at 45 degrees:

Don't see what the problem is? Unless you have a High angle frog. No different themicro beveling a blade for a BU plane.

regarding end grain:

Lotsa people use standard bench planes for end grain on shooting boards. Why not use a Bevel down plane for end grain?

Cheers

Dan Clermont (who does own BU planes because they were presented as the jack-of-all-trades)

Re: Help choosing a plane

Bruce Branson

>I prefer the LN 62.It must take all of 5 xtra seconds for me to square the blade without the grub screws that the LV 62 1/2 has.I use it like a jack plane and with two xtra blades ground at higher angles I can take care of medium stock remov-al.I use a scrub plane for anything heavier.A Stanley #6 type 15 with a Hock blade and chipbreaker handles flattening.

Re: All together now, "the best next plane....

Greg Sloop, Portland Oregon

>I agree too.

There's simply nothing so versitile as the bevel-up designs from LN and LV.

I will note that I've extensively compared the two. I actually sold my LN 62 with multiple irons on ebay and got the LV 62.5.

It's very clearly a better tool, IMO.

Cheers,

Greg