Workbench decision

Re: information *LINK*

paul womack

>I have a (very!) large list of links to sites about

benches.

Have a browse.

BugBear


http://www.geocities.com/plybench/bench.html

Re: Workbench decision

Tom MacGregor, Vermont

>I built myself a 26" x 78" bench complete with hardware for under $150.00. I found a no-name 10" quick release vise at a flea market and a heavy duty bench screw at a yard sale. I completed the end vise with 3/4" mild steel rod & two bronze bushings from the hardware store. The frame is made of triple thicknesses of 5/4 lumberyard pine & by cutting the middle pieces correctly had ready made heavy duty mortice & tennons. The center pieces of 5/4 in the frame rails are dadoed for 1/2" threaded rod salvaged from the metal bin at the local recycling center to crank it all together. All the hardwood for the top is recycled salvage and has 3/4" drilled holes for the bench dogs, which I made with dowel & bullet catches. It's as solid as a rock & a joy to use. I like knowing I made it. Don't lock yourself into all new materials, keep your eyes open and save yourself a bundle.

I'm making mine...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>Salvaged doug fur 2x4's for the top. the base is salvaged 4x4 with 2x8 (doubbled up 4x8) streachers. I spent most of my money on vices (my bench will have 4 total) and some rock maple for wrapping the top and vice faces. It's a lot of work to build one and it takes some time, I've been working on mine for over a year now still not close to being done. Mostly due to honey do projects. So if you have the time go for it. Also lot's of other varables too, get a top and build a base. Lot's of people have used old bread boards for defunked pizza parlors to bowling alley lanes.

Re: Workbench decision *LINK*

Eric Hedberg

>Leo,

I would seriously consider the workbench written up and subsequently improved in recent issues of Popular Woodworking (link below). I lust for the beautiful benches I've seen (like Ellis' "coffee table"), but would be cringing at the thought of a slip of a chisel or inopportune drill through. I've come to love my own bench which is an amalgamation of history and resources. It ain't pretty, but if I need to drive a screw into it to make a task easier it doesn't matter. Additionally, the money saved can be directed to tools that last a lifetime and are much easier to pass on (or relocate). Eric


http://www.popularwoodworking.com/features/fea.asp?id=1069

Re: Workbench decision

Chris Knight

>You certainly don't want a bench to move around but that's easily solved without spending 1200 bucks.

There are some truly lovely benches out there that would not look out of place in an exhibition of studio furniture. I would love one of these but I know my working methods do not merit this kind of bench. Does this mean I am a sloppy worker? - No. I just need a jack of all trades and master of a few and I have built my bench quite cheaply to handle these requirements. It has seen nearly 10 years of hard use and if I could have any bench I wanted tomorrow it would look much the same as my present one does today. It is not pretty (for a start it has dog holes drilled at 6 inch centres everywhere) but it is flat and heavy. It has a Lee valley twin screw tail vice that I could live without very easily (because I have all those dog holes and my Lee valley wonderdogs work better for me than the tail vice which is too close to other stuff to allow me to use it properly - I have also started using vacuum clamping a lot which is very useful).

Unless you really understand your needs and do not expect them to change for the rest of your life, don't plan on any bench lasting that long as a useful tool.

Build one now that suits your work methods and the stuff you make. Build another when those needs change.

Chris

Re: Workbench decision

Hank Knight

>Leo, I went through the same decision-making process you are going through. I finally decided that I only want to do this once, so I might as well get the bench I want. That meant build my own with everything I wanted designed in rather than compromise on a already-built bench. I spent a long time coming up with a design and I've changed it at lease two dozen times. I'm about two weeks away from finishing the bench and I'm very happy with it. It's been a long process and it has cost more than I thought it would, but I'm very glad I decided to build rather than buy. If you've got the time and the inclination, go for it; you'll be happy with the end result. My $.02.

Re: Workbench decision

John, NY

>I agree, I too would love a bench that is as much a work of art as the stuff i'm trying to build. But, having that kinda assumes all i'm going to be doing on it is what it was intended for. So where am I going to hold the flywheel off of the lawnmower while i'm heating it with the blow-torch? How annoyed am I going to be when one of the teenage kids cuts the corner off with the jigsaw or a chunk out of the side.

I'm going to stick to my 3 sheets of 3/4 ply glued together, it was 2 but the burn marks, divits, gouges and holes made me put another on to and cut 3/4" off of the bottom of the legs. And next time? Maybe another sheet glued on top pr maybe a whole new top... either way it'll cost me less than $25!

Re: Workbench decision

George D. Huron

>Consider mounting your bench (either your present one or a new one if you build it) to the floor or to a sheet of plywood sized so that you step on it when you are working at the bench. You will find that your bench chasing days are over.

Buy or build, you'll still need another.

Angus Barclay, in New Zealand

>Whether you buy or build, it is unlikely you'll acquire only one bench.

Your working style will change and develop, your woodworking interests may grow in unexpected directions and shop time will teach you new things. Eventually, this will add up to the need for a "new and improved" bench.

If you build, you'll probably have a better understanding of the changes and improvements you need and how to incorporate them in the next bench.

regards

Angus Barclay

A small money saver

Paul M. in San Diego

>Whatever way you go, you don't need to buy any benchdogs. I've chucked all my expensive metal dogs after I trashed the blade on my #7 with an errant height setting. I have all wood dogs now, and life is much better. Now a miss just makes the dog a bit shorter.

Buy it!

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>No question in my mind. I have seen the Ulmia benches in my local Woodcraft. They are every bit as nice as my home built bench or nicer. Beech is a terrific top material. Maybe a better choice than maple.

Regarding design, you'll never get it right. You learn what you need by using a bench. Get the longest bench you can afford, even if your hands are shaking when you pay the bill. Length is power, opportunity, advantage.

You can save money building if you know what you are doing. But the time and unique skills and tools required are considerable.

I've always argued that it takes a master to design and build a bench. You and I are stuck since you can't start learning without a bench. Plus the skills you learn bench building, aren't immediately transferable to furniture (if that's your goal). Laminating the top, timberframing the bottom, mounting vises, ahhh its just not worth it.

If I had it to do all over again, I'd make my planes and saws and buy my bench.

Adam

P.S. If you must build, choose a horribly simple design. A french bench or an English Nicholson style Bench. You really don't need vises, and tail vises get in the way sometimes (I have a love-hate relationship with mine). Make it 9' long, so you can plane 8' stock easily.

Re: Buy it!

Ted Shuck

>Adam wrote:

>Make it 9' long, so you can plane 8' stock easily.

That's a BIG problem with store-bought benches. AFAIK they don't come that long. The Sjoberg Ultimate Bench at Woodcraft is 93" long and costs $2000. The next longest bench they carry is 64" long. I can't find Ulmia benches sold in the US.

Make sure that the bench you buy has features competetive with the one you planned to build.

I built my bench, but would consider the LV benches if I were to buy one.

Ted

Re: Workbench decision

Scott Post

>In your situation I'd buy it only because it looks like wood prices in your area are horribly expensive. Based on your $1200 price tag and the hardware you're planning to use I'm guestimating you're planning to pay in the neighborhood of $10/bf for thick maple. Are you shopping at a real lumber yard or one of those wood boutiques with bins of pre-planed lumber? I can't imagine paying that kind of money for maple or any other domestic hardwood.

Re: Workbench decision

esanford

>You can build something as a happy medium between function and style for less than $1200 and as mentioned, since this is your first bench, you won't really know what features you ultimately will want for the things you make and the manner in which you work (which are also subject to change over time!)

And as Adam mentioned, the longer you can make it, the better!

Eric

Re: Workbench decision

Frank Mutchler in Colorado Springs

>Too many variables to answer the question you pose, e.g.: build or buy.

The bench top I work on currently is a solid core door with replaceable hard board top. No dog holes...I just nail or screw stops etc. as I need them. Someone else has mention that approach. The bench I'm building has a 3" solid maple top with 3/4" square dog holes. The base is composed of cabinets similar to the Shaker style benches. Building this bench requires that I use lots of different skills from different trades. That's why I'm building it. Not only refines my skills but also shows customers what they can expect.

I want to have a beautiful top that I work on. I'm not sure but I think it will help me work more carefully/precisely on the project at hand. Protecting the top while working shouldn't be that big of a deal. I will have to learn how to use dogs, etc. instead of driving screws but that's o.k., looking forward to it.

Now my thinking is that you HAVE to have more than one bench ;>). So if you buy now you can build the next one or 'tuther' way 'round.

Warning! Attempting Hijack ;>)

Frank Mutchler in Colorado Springs

>Adam, would you please elaborate on you comment regarding a tail vise? I assume you're talking about a traditional tailvise?

I've been wondering if a simple vise mounted to the end of the bench wouldn't work just fine so long as it had a dog in its jaw that lined up with the bench dog holes.

I've watched Frank K. use his tail vise to plane drawers but that can also be done using the face vise. Takes a lot of effort to make a nice tail vise and I'm wondering if it's worth it?? Thanks.

OT: Angus, did you...

Kevin F, New Zealand

>... receive my email about the badger plane?

Cheers

Kevin

Re: buy the top build the base

CBT

>I had the same problem. I bought a 6' maple top from Woodcraft <$250. Some lumber suppliers have access to maple tops, you'll need to ask. I also bought two import vises. I built the base out of 4" Fir. I made my bench dogs out of 3/4" oak dowels. I've used it for about two years. I would make this bench again. The only thing I would change is I'd go for a larger top.

Curtis

Re: Workbench decision

Jack from Maine

>I bought bench plans from Lee Valley($8 i think)their front vice and large front vice.The wood for my bench was about $600 for hard maple. Took me about two weeks to throw it together and I love it. Top lamination and mortise and tenon jointery were the only difficult parts and I learned alot about wood doing it. I highly recommend building your own.It's good exercise of woodworking skills.Also you'll enjoy it more because you did it.---Crackerjack

Re: Workbench decision

Leo Boudreau

>Well, I guess I'm inclined to buy it based on what I'm seeing here.

The bench plan I'm looking at using about 110 bf of 8/4 maple. That's going for around 4.80 bf. round up with taxes and such and I'm at around $535 for the wood. The hardware is up around another $550 or so. So as you can see, it gets up there pretty quick if you want to have a maple bench with fair vises and such. I'm not talking Emmerts or anything here.

As someone else mentioned, I'm at the point now of seeing my bench as being probably as important or maybe more than any other tool in my shop. It's central to everything I plan to work on.

I was at the Woodcraft seminar on Woodplanes this past weekend with Garrett Hack and had the chance to use a good bench and it really makes a world of difference.

That all said, there's no reason I couldn't use cheaper wood for the base, but I don't think I'm really going to save that much unless I find someone to donate some old wood out of the barn or something.

If I buy a good bench, and then decide after a few years that I'm ready to build something more suitable to where my talents (or lack thereof) lead me, then I should be able to sell a Sjoberg on EBay for pretty much what I paid and then finance my adventure.

I know it's a chuck of change... I just have to figure out how it's going to work now.

Re: Workbench decision

Rob Cosman

>Leo, build your own. Nothing commercial is going to be exactly what you want and I cant think of a more important tool in the shop to have customized for you. Here are a few shots of one of mine, might give you some ideas.

http://www.robcosman.ca/Benches_&_Tools.htm

Rob

Re: Workbench decision

Ted Shuck

>If you are using 110 bf of hard maple, that's almost 400 pounds of wood. Combine that with $550 of hardware and you are talking about a bench that will weigh over 500 pounds. You are not going to come close to that bench with a store-bought bench which costs under $2000. I can't believe you will find a store-bought bench with similar hardware on it for close to that price.

I bought maple for my bench for about the same price/bf that you are looking at, but only used about 80bf. The cutoffs from the boards that were used for the top made the base. I used virtually *all* the wood. I put a Record 52 1/2 vice on the front and used one of the steel-guided tailvise kits. The hardware was about $200. It is a heavier, sturdier bench than the $1100 Sjoberg bench from Woodcraft, for about half the cost. I learned a lot building mine, and I am glad I did.

But, it took me three months to build it. As others have suggested, if you want to use your bench NOW, buy it. I see that as the most compelling reason to buy rather than build. There is no way it will be close to the cost of materials for a comparable build-it-yourself bench.

Ted

If you buy

Clay C in Miami

>I'd suggest you actually try out any Sjoberg you consider. There have been a few comments here that their recent production was not as stable as might be hoped. (Although I'm pretty sure the comments were not made about the high-end $1300 model.)

An Ulmia would be nice - but, for over $500 less, maybe consider the LV? I bought two of the LV benches recently, and I like them. Mounted a second LV twin-screw as a face vise on one of them, the quick-release 52.5 Record on the other. They even 'customized' them both for me. (I.e., pulled them from the line before they were drilled for the stock face vises, plus credited me for those two unneeded vises.)

Finally, I just can't resist, plus I was a proofreader in a former life - I have formed an irresistible mental image of the 'defunked' pizza parlor mentioned above (everyone wearing khakis and buttondown shirts, the stereo playing Perry Como, paintings on the walls of children with giant eyes, etc.)

Clay

Re: Workbench decision

Paul M. in San Diego

>I would only plan on using good lumber for the top. There's no reason to use hard maple for the base. I used standard 4x4 posts from the big orange box, and I've never regretted that decision. A 4x4 with big honking mortices is going to be as stiff and strong as if you made it from hard maple.

I wound up ripping and "bookmatching" (for lack of a better term) 4x4 posts to make two of the stretchers. This resulted in roughly 2z8 strechers so there is no racking at all. Just don't go cheap on the top. Use good maple there.