face gluing

Re: The old saying...

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

Read what Barry says about Bessy. I agree exactly.

Re: The old saying...

markas

What makes the Dubuque Clamps better than the regular aluminum bar clamps? Just curious.

Barry help me here

Re: The old saying...

Jack Dover

The regular aluminum clamps are made from so (relatively) thin and soft aluminum that you will destroy a notch without even realizing it. Also it’s really easy to deform them. They also have quite the tolerances and a movable head gets stuck when you don’t really want it, just annoying, you know.

That being said I like HF clamps, they’re good for pretty much everything, except maybe heavy panel glue ups and situations where I’m desperately trying to compensate sloppiness with physical force. And I would personally appreciate a clamp of this type with shortcomings addressed. There are ways of stiffening HF clamps with 2x, but I’m yet to find time for this

Re: The old saying...

David Bassett

They're heavier duty than any others I've seen. But they're still light and manageable. Also they (e.g.) 24" clamps clamp 24", where many (all?) other 24" clamps are 24" long and therefore only clamp a little over 22" inches. The only thing I've ever seen that's close is some Jorgensen aluminum bar clamps, which I'm 99% sure have been discontinued, (and wouldn't be surprise if they were made by Dubuque.)

PS- there's an article out there about how you can rework HF bar clamps to be "as good" as the Dubuques. If you're worth minimum wage, the reworked clamps are more expensive and still not as good.

Re: Barry help me here, I'll try

Barry Irby

Clamps are a case of "buy once, cry once" or they can be. What do you want to do with it and what other factors come in to play? They need to be strong and reliable and easy to use. And not break the bank and not ruin the project.

I have had Pipe clamps for at least fifty years, from before the "improved versions" that have feet on them. Modified mine with some scraps of Baltic birch plywood to have feet and extended jaws to allow them to work from the top and bottom. If you use galvanized pipe they won't stain the work (oak) but the coating is soft and the pipes slip. If you use steel pipe they don't slip as much but will stain the work. Many of us started with pipe clamps and I still have maybe twenty. At Bill's suggestion I got some Dubuque aluminum bar clamps. And, without even thinking about it the bar clamps got retired. The pipe clamps are heavy, awkward, floppy .... The modification I made with the plywood is the best thing I ever did to mine and if anybody wants to know more, ask.

A Friend gave me some Bessey K body clamps and I bought more at estate sales. They were getting great press and were clearly the THING in clamps. I fell for the promotion but still could not stand the price so I found ways to buy them on the cheap. As I said they are hateful, heavy, and I find the mechanism fiddly. Almost always takes me two tries to get them to lock up in the right position. And Heavy.

They got retired when the Dubuque clamps came along. You can pick up three Dubuque clamps in one hand easier than either a pipe clamp or a K body. May not sound like much of an advantage, but try it you will like it. The clamps are sturdy and well made. I just looked up the Harbor Freight version and yes they are cheaper, but much more cheaply made. Little rods for handles instead of the butterfly ones. The bar is not as sturdy. Dubuque, you can quickly slide the movable jaw and it registers solidly into a detent in the bar and apply some serious pressure without damaging the bar. The screw came lubricated and moves like silk. The head doesn't jamb up. The aluminum doesn't stain your work. So, yes they are at least twice as much money, but they pay off in speed, ease of use and durability. I reach for mine first every time.

I still use c-clamps. Somebody tell me the version of F clamps to buy and maybe I will get a few.

Re: Barry help me here, I'll try

markas

Well, it doesn't take more than that for me. I definetly will purchase a few. I know my original question may sound like I may have just started woodworking but I have been doing this quite a while as a hobby. But, I learn something every day when I investigate new things. I have never been good at gluing up.. I always have had glue mess underneath the pipe clamps because you can't get to it to scrape it off until after you remove the clamp. Oh well, happy gluing up. I think I can talk my wife into some new clamps.......Thank for valuable input!

adding to Barry

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

My son in law promptly broke some of his Harbor Freight clamps. No economy there.

The clamps being discussed were originally designed and made at a family business in CA. They were called "Universal". They were made for production gluing in factories. The owner told me factories used air wrenches to drive the screws for tightening them when used as panel clamps. Strong enough?

All those details Barry offered that you likely overlooked upon first read will come to be what you love about these clamps- grab 3 in a hand, spin the handle with on finger, won't stain, rapid adjust....... What ever alternative bar clamp is in your shop will sit unused when you have these.

Edge gluing: Spread glue on one edge sparingly. Use this edge to wipe glue to the opposing edge getting at least 50% coverage +/-. Mate and clamp. Ideally some small beads of glue will squeeze out. If drips squeeze out you are applying too much glue.

Re: adding to Barry

markas

You make a good point on edge gluing. Sounds like common sense but I guess I have always applied too much, getting too much squeeze out. In my hobby career, I may have had only 2 failed glue ups. My shop is only heated when I woodwork so I have always worried about warping and such even though I do let the lumber acclimate.

Re: adding to Barry...let me add one more thing

Barry Irby

I want to hammer the point about glue ups....They are often more frantic than they should be. We are told to do dry assemblies/practice runs and many of us do. The middle of a glue up is no time to start fighting with the clamps. Clamps are this sort of dumb necessity that sit around taking up space until it's go time. Then they can be magic or a curse. Don't buy the kind that will fail right at the critical moment. Buy good ones and they will serve you well, make your life easier, and last the rest of your life.

And I too tend to use more glue than necessary. It's a bad habit. If nothing else it makes the clamps work a little harder to squeeze the excess out of the joint.

You mentioned Pipe clamps. If you would like, send me an e-mail and I will send you a picture of my improved jaws on them. And a couple of other tips as well.

Get some Dubuque Clamps for yourself for Christmas. You won't be sorry.

caution

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

glue requires a minimum temperature during cure or there will be failure. Study specifications for the glue you use.

Re: adding to Barry...let me add one more thing

markas

Why sure! I'll take all the shop tips I can get. mshultz56@yahoo.com...Very kind of you.

Wax Paper under pipe clamps avoids staining

Re: adding to Barry...let me add one more thing

William Duffield

You should post your pipe clamp improvements here. There are others on this forum who still use them. Even with our best laid plans, we sometimes run out of better clamps and need to fall back on the orange Jorgensens with black pipe. I've made minor improvements to my pipe clamps, but they were not much improved, and the improvements have proven to have a limited service life.

Re: adding to Barry

William Duffield

Thank you, Bill and Barry for the recommendations of the Dubuque aluminum bar clamps. I should have taken it when you first offered it, but I guess better late than never. I've always figured my Bessey K-body clamps worked well enough, in spite of their weight, their size, the strange tilting handle engagement mechanism, and the scar on top of my head, but you've finally convinced me to order a few. If I like them, I'll probably order more.

While I was on Harry Epstein's web store, I noticed they are once again offering seconds of the PEC 4R machinist's double squares at a very reasonable price: $20 for the 4" and $24 for the 6". They're on the second page of the closeouts section.

https://www.harryepstein.com/closeouts.html

These seem like insignificant things, but

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

Being able to grab 3 clamps in one hand to retrieve them or put them back

Being able to spin the adjustment threads with the index finger

Adding 8 clamps to a case assembly and not having them add so much weight as to distort the case

Being able to adjust the span with one finger during assembly....

Zero flex in panel glue up.....

but they add up to result in a clamp you always reach for and the alternatives sit idle until you run out of these.

Re: These seem like insignificant things, but

Barry Irby

Hopefully one final thought...Consider when your cheap clamps will fail...It won't be when they are hanging in the rack. It will be right in the middle of a difficult glue up and if it's a critical clamp, you won't have time to go to the store for more.

Re: adding to Barry...let me add one more thing

Barry Irby

I padded the jaws with pieces of Baltic Birch plywood about 5" by 2 1/4" with a hole through it for the pipe. The hole needs to be very loose to avoid it binding on the pipe. I think I used a 1 3/8 or 1 1/2" hole and then rounded over the edges of the holes with a router. The 5" height gives enough room for you to spin the handle even when sitting on the table. And it's tall enough to raise the upper clamps off the workpiece to avoid staining. I drilled two holes through the jaws for the screws that hold the pads in place. And, I waxed the pads with paste wax to avoid glue sticking to the pads. You can lay wax paper over the bottom clamp pipes to avoid staining or you can make "c" channels out of plastic pipe to snap over them. I find the C channels to be a Pain and don't use them. If they are too long they interfere with the glue up, so it requires you have a bunch. The pads on the jaws also eliminate the need to pad the edges to avoid clamp dents.

While this was something of a project to do, it's the best thing I ever did to my clamps. A huge improvement.

It's been so long since I posted a picture, I have forgotten how. Somebody "plain it to me.

Re: These seem like insignificant things, but

markas

Im glad I posted the original post....This has been very good inputs on *clamps* No doubt every woodworker will need reliable clamps. I had never even heard of those Dubuque bar clamps before now. I will no doubt be purchasing some soon.

Re: These seem like insignificant things, but

William Duffield

If they work even half as well as you describe, I'm sure I'll be pleased. I ordered two of each size (2' to 6' in 1' increments). If I like them, I'm sure I'll be getting a couple more of the sizes I use most. BTW, I can grab three K-bodies or three pipe clamps in one hand. I used to be able to do it with either hand, but arthritis in one thumb now limits that hand to one clamp at a time.

There is one advantage unique to pipe clamps. If you don't have one that is long enough, you can twist the moveable end of a shorter one 90°, reverse it and hook the moveable ends together, with one threaded end at each end of the span you need to apply pressure to.

Re: These seem like insignificant things, but

Barry Irby

Pipe Clamps offer several advantages. But, Bessey makes "joiners" that allow you to join two of the K bodies together. IIRC they cost more than a pipe clamp.

Recently a friend needed a tail gate for his new trailer. It had ramps on it about five feet tall and we decided a low tailgate would be more useful most of the time. So I grabbed some steel pipe I found under my shed and some treated lumber and made him a tailgate. It worked well and is easy to remove when he wants the ramps. All was well until I needed my really long pipe clamps and it dawned on me why I had two ten foot pieces of pipe under the shed. Ooops. Had to join a couple of shorter ones.