60,000 table saw injuries per year - Best safety practices

There are basically two philosophies of safe saw use abroad today:  1) That one should continue to shove one's hands into circular saw blades, but would be a fool to do so without Saw Stop; 2) That one should not shove one's hand into saw blades.  And accepts that safe saw use is possible, and will not do unsafe things on a saw.
 
1) Implies that one is unable to avoid accidents when using a table saw, so one should ensure that at least they don't cause injury.  The limit on this view are that there are at least 3 other horrible classes of injuries that can cause harm to a user, even kill one.  And that as there continue to be a lot of accidents with saws, mechanical interventions have not stopped all the accidents.  Proponents of philosophy 1) also promote the idea that 100% safe saw use is impossible, and presumably continue to jam their hands into blades, but are not harmed.  Generally showing/promoting poor skill and failing to teach safe practices, because they are not necessary, at least where amputations are concerned.
 
2) Is obviously not working either.  We know from multiple sources that 100% safe operation of saws is possible even in industrial settings.  We know this because there is not a random distribution of accidents.  For instance, pattern makers have low to zero injuries, because they use push sticks, etc..; or the FWW survey showed that there were virtually no reported injuries when safety devices were used. FWW survey was interesting because it was produced largely from a hobbyist base.  But even very old saws, without safety gear can be safely used, even in some cases more safely (one obvious advantage being lower power).
 
I rather like our free wheeling access to woodworking, compared to European norms.  However, they have done a lot more in Europe to promote training, and to upgrade tools from the 1930s norms of even a Sawstop tool.  But better practices is possibly more expensive than modified tools, though it should be possible in a personal shop, in a pleasure setting.  We need to accept that table saws can be safe and never turn one on unless one knows that it's use will be safe, and how to proceed if one needs to work around an unsafe practice.

I don't think anybody goes into the shop with the intention of sticking their hand into the blade or getting speared by kickback. However, I am an advocate of safety features which includes training. I also do not subscribe to the theory that our brains will keep us safe; brains have a habit of going into la-la land for various reasons and humans don't always think before they act. Safety features keep us safe from the stupid things that happen without thinking. As I've said before, over the years I've read various posts that began, "I have done this without incident for 20 years, but today I stuck my hand too close...".

I had my first table saw accident this year - after 55 years of woodworking.  I had a piece of wood kick back and hit me in the chest.  Thankfully it did not hit me in the head!  I'm pretty sure it happened because the board was too short to run through the tablesaw.  It was about 4" x 13" x 3/4".  Hurt like the dickens - knocked the breath out of me.  

I've never seen anything on how short is too short for the table saw.

Glad it wasn't worse even though it hurt.
I have seen statements that 12" is the minimum length for rip cuts.

https://www.woodcentral.com/forkbb/topic/2350351/table%20saw%20accident

johannaj wrote:

I had my first table saw accident this year - after 55 years of woodworking.  I had a piece of wood kick back and hit me in the chest.  Thankfully it did not hit me in the head!  I'm pretty sure it happened because the board was too short to run through the tablesaw.  It was about 4" x 13" x 3/4".  Hurt like the dickens - knocked the breath out of me.  

I've never seen anything on how short is too short for the table saw.

When ripping, if you don't have kick back pawls (most tablesaws also come with anti-kickback pawls, those metal teeth that prevent the workpiece from sliding backward ) or hold down feather boards in use - stay to the side (out of the line of fire) while you use push sticks. Better yet - use hold downs and feather boards and push sticks.

The table saw is a ripping machine.

Use power stock feeders or one-way feeders (no motor).

If you subordinate your safety to some joker who made an elaborate mechanism to sense when it has hit flesh you are a fool.

The Sawstop and equivalent technology need not be the only accident defense mechanism but it provides safety for other types of tablesaw accidents where feeders and the like don't help.

johannaj wrote:

I had my first table saw accident this year - after 55 years of woodworking.  I had a piece of wood kick back and hit me in the chest.  Thankfully it did not hit me in the head!  I'm pretty sure it happened because the board was too short to run through the tablesaw.  It was about 4" x 13" x 3/4".  Hurt like the dickens - knocked the breath out of me.  

I've never seen anything on how short is too short for the table saw.

Sorry to hear that.

The problem is that there is some range in what is safe and not.  If one assumes that the wood is perfect and the saw is perfect, then the range of safe will still vary as to length, width, and depth.  There are also setup factors, like: type of blade; whether the fence has any lead; how slick the surfaces are. 

I got nailed by a heavy, short, wide, and thick piece once, and that was enough for me.  I am back to the 110 volt machines and this summer, was successfully using a machine that had a 1/2 hp motor in it.  Which was a kludge, but I was surprised how well it worked.  Hard maple was not on the menu.

If one introduces faulty wood, it gets even more interesting.  I bought a piece of "mahogany" once, for the shears and clamps on a dingy.  It looked great (of course, being tropical there was no way to read the grain).  It was about 8 feet long and I was trying to reduce it to 1"x1"s.  As each came off it went from the straight stock I had bought to bent as deeply as a banana.  I had not trouble sawing it, but it goes to show how extreme the forces can be inside a piece of wood.

What does one do about these dangers?:

-  Listen to the little voice; 
- Have alternative tools and skill;
- Stand to one side of the firing line, which is harder the smaller one is; the deeper some old 1930s dinosaur of a saw design is;  non adjustable for height; and the further one is pushed away from the blade by a tack-on fence.
- consider reducing HP if one is not getting paid by the minute.

TomD

Bill Howatt wrote:

Re: 60,000 table saw injuries per year - Best safety practices

I don't think anybody goes into the shop with the intention of sticking their hand into the blade or getting speared by kickback. However, I am an advocate of safety features which includes training. I also do not subscribe to the theory that our brains will keep us safe; brains have a habit of going into la-la land for various reasons and humans don't always think before they act. Safety features keep us safe from the stupid things that happen without thinking. As I've said before, over the years I've read various posts that began, "I have done this without incident for 20 years, but today I stuck my hand too close...".

Bill

I don't think everyone's brain is all that great.  But in the group of people who are responsible enough and rich enough for a 5000 dollar saw, probably dealing with the better brains. What about handling a gun?  Maybe Dale Gribble could get away with saying "I have done this without incident for 20 years, but today I stuck my hand over the muzzle, and pulled the trigger..."  I just am not giving myself that permission.  At their worst, rifles do about 10K ft⋅lbs of energy.  My pickup at 70 mph does about 1 million ft⋅lbs of energy.  Hey, but some day I might hit a school bus...  It is an odd world to me where people zip by cyclists at a high rate of speed, but standing still in their shops they seriously fear for their fingers.

Saw Stop starts at $900 for their portable worksite saw, goes to $2000 for their contractor style, and $3000 for their 1.75 HP cabinet saw. I don't know what kind of attachments you're adding to get to $5000.

I think I just heard that price, and I am in Canada, so 3K is nearly 5K, though I normally try to stay inside US dollars.  Thanks for the comment.

I have bought saws with better bones for 60 dollars Canadian (Pointras cast iron).  And various Inca in the couple of hundred range.  Given that many of these saws are better made, even after all these years...  I wonder what resale on SS will be as they are an electronic platform to some extent.  Doesn't mater if the original owner kept their fingers.

Not trying to pick a fight, but have you ever actually examined a Saw Stop machine? Their quality is as good as anything in their price range by Jet or Powermatic.

That would be the problem to me.  I haven't used one, they have them at a bunch of local stores.  They just look like the usual import crap.  I have a lot of imported tools and they serve me well, but on the metal working side of things, you actually see import tools snap.  I had an import pattern maker vise, and it snapped. They aren't good quality, though they can serve.  Can someone set me straight that the bones of an SS are  A1 one primo like a General 350, that I can buy for 800 off a second hand dealer floor, with a low mileage Leeson motor, all day long.

A problem with import tools is what tools they decide to copy.  I am anti Unisaw, it is an old, awkward, dangerous saw, that won't just die, and it seems to be the base for the imports.  That could probably be worse.  It could be the lathes the import companies have been slinging for the last 20 years.  The 350 I owned was a close copy of a Uni, and it sure worked.  Not really a cabinet saw. There are better saws out there to copy.

Sawstop itself is an interesting technology, and they put it in the kind of saws people seem to want to buy.  I don't need it so I can pick up a great saw at almost 1-2% the cost. 

But for 5 grand SS is embarrassing:



Look at the messy wiring that the push stick is behind;
The cheesy mobile base, does that actually work with the table supports?
The classic Beismeyer rip off fence that is the universal Unisaw afterthought;
Could they get certified in the EU with that garbage splitter and guard?
The thing is an eyesore.  All the kludges beg for a redesign.  And who better than SS who for many users have revolutionized the table saw...  Until you see a Felder, or any well made brand.

This saw didn't make it in the US market, but it had some improvements over the Uni, and it is itself almost 40 years old. When people decide to go with the crap saws, it is a conscious decision to find a sewer and go with the flow.


This is a King saw, new for 2K Can, so 40 percent the cost of the SS.  King stuff works.   Doesn't have the overarm guard, or wing tables, but I don't see the 3 thousand extra for the SS.



I am not fussy about price.  I have some very expensive stuff, and some stuff that is refurbished.  I have spent 2K on a set of chisels.  People want to spend for the SS, that is their decision.  But I don't see much to get excited about unless the modulation is important to one.

I think 731 is pretty reliable.  I think he does a lot of research on serious topics.  I did watch that and i noticed that the comment I made was not specific to any errors, and not critical of the presentation.

Here are a few things to think about:

1) People try to do far too many things on the TS, this is less common today as cheap tools now mean more people own, more tools, and so they tend not to push TSs to do stupid things.  Pretty hard to hurt yourself if working well within the design parameter of the tool.  Though there are jigs that can be used with a TS that are outside normal course, and can promote safety.  And there are safety tools like guards and push sticks.  I guess it is super common today, but I always wear hearing protection, partly because hearing damage is cumulative, and not well explained or understood.  But also, when the SHTF, at least my nervous system responds better if the noise level is lower.

IMPORTANT

2) Following on 1) above, today's version of that warning is to make people aware that there is a whole parallel universe of saw use that is rapidly making TSs irrelevant, or minimizing their size.  This being precision TSs and track saws.  I have been on the former my who career, and the later, is a more recent thing for me.  If I had to choose, I would get a track saw, rather than an SS, if my main concern was safety.  But there is more...  They are better on dust, noise, space, cost, etc...  So again as per 1) minimize TS use unless it is safe and unless it is necessary.

(I would also suggest that if becoming a handsaw master is in your future, you want to take on a lot of tasks that might be more easily done on power tools.  I prefer not to do things that are drudgery, but skill come from practice. So look for opportunities, particularly if at the outset, say, you goofed a handsaw cross cut, there was still room to clean it up on whatever you find more reliable).

This approach should suit most small makers, but not an industry that pushes 3" maple through a saw all day, power feeds might help, or undocumented labor.

3)  Understand that tools that are held in both hands, and moved on the wood, tend to have lower potential for terrible accidents (as long as you don't try to rest them in your lap between cuts) than those one moves the wood to with both hands.  This is easy to mistake as some processes like feeding a perfect piece of stock into a TS seem very predictable, but you are also advancing your hands to the cutter.  So a router table can be more dangerous than a hand held router.  There is also some weird geometry with router tables.  My only serious nip on a power tool was when I passed a piece through a cutter from both sides to center the slot.  Turns out there are 4 ways to set this up, 2 of which are safe, and 2 of which are ballistic.  The piece of wood disappeared, while my hand was near the cutter.  There are lots of sneaky things waiting to happen with stationary tools that do not self feed.

4) Relative to that.  Always be sure you are not over the cutters on machines where that appears safe as with some jointing, or routing.  Never commit weight to the cut, always have your feet well under you.  Be sure you know you will be safe should the piece disappear.

5) Really important to thoroughly understand rotary cutters.  They are present in lathes, grinders, TS, routers...  Understand how they can kick back and from what direction they can be safely approached.  You can seriously hurt yourself on table saws, but similar issues arise when sanding on the lathe, using routers, or sharpening on grinders.  Not to mention operating a chainsaw.

6)  I don't want to watch that video again, but he probably left out adjusting the table angle to the blade angle, relative to changes that are present when the blade is inclined.  This is not relevant if the table is fixed as it is on precision saws, and jobsite saws, often.  On cabinet saws it can be out.  Maybe manufacturers know to adjust for it today, but if you get a second hand saw you need to look for it.

Try visualizing this:  Imagine you have a long board and are feeding it into the saw, Often people will slightly elevate the rear of the board because if one is going to make an error that is less of a problem.  But imagine you did that while the blade was inclined to cut a bevel.  Can you see how that would involve binding and possible kick back?  Same goes for if the saw table is either too high at the front, or the back.  It may need to be shimmed.  This error can occur on saws where the arbor hangs from the table, and particularly if it hangs in the cabinet.

For starters, use predictable wood like plywood, or pine, never put your hands within 8" of the blade, or up to, or past the blade.  Get the feel of the tool.  You can try other things you learn are sensible later, after you have a feel for it.

Added later 03 min 07 s:

Here is a video of the new Festool battery saw.  When thinking "Wow! Sawstop has me covered!" with their janky 100 year old design with a seatbelt. Look at this approach.  If SS had their way, this would be illegal.  And this saw could never accommodate current SS tech in reasonable form factor. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrVziQ5nzn0


This is also a 5 thousand dollar saw, in Canada, maybe more with tax.  How?  Well the saw is 2700, and most fanfolks would have an extra 2K in Festool dust extraction, on a battery platform.  Plus reserve battery power, and chichi dust bags, it could go to 6K.  Of course, the extractor could spread its goodness over other tool systems if one had them.

The salesman says the market is flooring and trim contractors, which is speaking to who could buy this and make money off it.  However, I think the crafts it could serve would be far wider.  I do everything from chainsaw lumbermaking, to musical instruments, with a lot of boatbuilding. I could probably settle on a saw this small.  A precision saw, if I had a track saw, and a decent bandsaw.  I fell for the massive band resaw thing when I was setting up, but I find I mostly use the 12" Inca I got for free when I parted out some guys shop. 

Sawstop is like a late model, Model T Ford with an airbag wanting to get the government to ban Tesla.  The last Ts came off the assembly line in '27, and the Unisaw got it's start in '38, so a slight exaggeration.

I'm sure Festool has access to Sawstop technology since they own Sawstop.

@Dave Bair,
And Festool and Sawstop are both owned by  TTS Tooltechnic Systems Holding AG (Germany).

Added later 03 min 47 s:

https://www.protoolreviews.com/power-tool-manufacturers-who-owns-them/

never mind

Dave Bair wrote:

I'm sure Festool has access to Sawstop technology since they own Sawstop.

Still the case that it would ban a saw of that type, and that based on their jobsite saw it would add a lot of weight.

Hmmm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxKkuDduYLk

I think this earlier video is better. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gyRBEN1ang

One thing Stumpy said, that I had not heard, was that one of the radial arm companies bought back all the old saws they could, in order to reduce their liability.  This denuded the landscape, though other brands are still commonly available for purchase. If that were to happen with TSs, it would much reduce available legacy saws, that are perfectly fine, and could spare those with the freedom to embrace saws with poorer optics, the cost of the new saw technology.  While it seems that would not probably happen, there was not the push behind radial saws, as there was no SS to move the liability needle at the time.

It would also suggest that the offer to take patents out of the way of "progress" is either not entirely sincere, or possibly sincere, but still a problem for legacy companies that would by moving to the new design acquire enormous additional liability, as it amounts to a confession that all saws previously sold were dangerous.  The other option being to stop selling table saws.  This then raises the question of what other tools can be cut out of the heard with novel new safety features.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsEhw3lWh9A