table saw accident

Re: table saw accident

Dan Mitchell

>Edward - Sorry to hear about your accident. Glad it wasn't worse. It may be instructive for beginners like me if you could give a bit more detail of exactly what happened, and if in retrospect you can think of anything you might have done differently to avoid the accident.

Hope you heal quickly.

Dan

sure dan

edward mccormack

>i was useing the dado blde emptying out the middle af abox top. after i hade run it through i thought to get rid of the ridges i would work the piece back and forth over the blade. i hade done this before on a smaller piece, not on a dado. i think i should have hade it backed by somethige IE, miter fence with a scrap support. Or have just used my block plane. i think the second would have been the best. i hope this helps and you never have to make the same mistake as me. I myself am somewhat of a rookie also, only 5 projects under my belt.

Eddie 9 1/4

Re: sure dan

BobTes

>If I understand right you were moving the top freehand back and forth across the dado blade? That is scary and not advised I don't think.

Bob

Accident

Chuck

>I have a part-time hobby job at a woodworking store. Once a while, I come across customers who have their hands or fingers bandaged and they all share stories similar to poor Ed's. I always find the tablesaw and router the most dangerous tools in my shop (I don't have a jointer) and to save my hands, palms, and fingers, I always handle a board (unless it's a half or full sheet) through a push stick or push block when I work with those two tools. The only tools that I find less lethal are scrollsaw, lathe, drill press and bandsaw. Even them, I still try to keep fingers away from any cutting edge whenever I can.

x-ray 

edward mccormack

>

Re: table saw accident

Bri in Mtl

>Sorry for your misfortune.

You might want to consider a SawStop if you continue. Your story makes me glad I decided to have one.

Re: Sorry to hear about this..

JL

>Makes me wonder if I should have bought a Sawstop. I do use pushsticks and Gripper type pads when I'm working close, but accidents and kickbacks do happen.

Sawstop

Dan Mitchell

>I seriously considered the Sawstop when I bought my PM2000. I do think it's great technology. I am wondering though how effective it would be in an incident like this one sounds to have been. We've all seen the hot dog video. If you slowly edge the meat into the blade, it retracts in the blink of an eye before the blade can do much damage. What about a case where a kickback or some other factor violently and forcefully slams your hand into the spinning blade. You would likely still receive less of an injury than you would if the blade did not retract, but would it be enough under these conditions for you to walk away with only a "hot dog scratch".

I'm just wondering.

Dan

Re: So Sorry, Ed..

George@Colonel's Workshop-Havertown PA

>Good Evening Ed,

I came away in much better shape after a jointer accident years ago. My partial lost digit is practically unnoticeable now. You did all of us a service for posting the pix and telling the story. I believe accidents are less likely to happen if a person is totally focused on the task being performed. But given our human nature, we make/made mistakes. Tools like the Saw Stop help, but never can eliminate what is inevitable. Sorry you learned the hard way, and I hope you heal quickly without being put off with woodworking afterwards. Good luck. Thanks.

George

That x-ray says it all

Dan Mitchell

>Thanks for sharing your cautionary tale.

Dan

A suggestion

John Pappas

>When I purchased my table saw about 35 years ago I was being helped by an older man. He could tell that I knew nothing about saws. So, he went to a book shelf and picked up a Rockwell book on table saw use. As he handed it to me he put his hand on my shoulder, looked me straight in the eyes and said, "Son, don't turn that saw on until you read this book." I would like to suggest to anyone else here who has not had the proper training in the use of a table saw to get and read a book about its use. All the safty principles are not intuitive. Some just have to be learned from a teacher or a book. Over the past couple of years I can recall about three instances where someone posted about an accident doing something they should not have been doing. Tools are dangerous. Following sound safty principles is simply a must in this hobby/vocation.

Re: 1st class mistake

Brian in Brighton

>Sorry for your loss. You have joined a wide and distinguished club. "The Nine Finger Club" Take a position at the front of the line.

You made a 1st class mistake. In engineering terms it was a class 1 error.

NEVER FREEHAND ANYTHING ON THE TABLE SAW. NEVER-EVER-EVER.

No matter how simple it seems you will eventually have a problem. If it seems even in the slightest bit dangerous, it is. Always use a cross cut sled or miter gauge or fence to hold one side of the part. It can't stop accidents, but it is a start.

Brian in Brighton

Re: table saw accident

Barry Irby

>Thanks for posting. Sorry you were hurt. Wish it had come out better.

About forty years ago I bought a radial arm saw and was using it to taper table legs. (Probably a foolish endeavor to start with.) I reached between the column of the saw and the motor over and over as I continued the process. In a moment of distraction, I touched the blade with the thumb on my right hand. Right through the nail. I still have it, but the damage is still visible. The Doctor wanted to remove it down to the joint, but I would have none of that. I have never regretted that decision.

I still have the RAS. And a Table saw I bought over thirty years ago. If I were doing it again and could afford it, I would buy a SawStop.

Incidentally I saw a post on YouTube that appeared to be a saw stop type bandsaw.

Read up on shop safety. Thanks again. Keep us alert.

Re: table saw accident

Robert R Clough - Thorncraft

>My best - having been almost there (stitches only) I have a vague understanding of what happened.

Re: Sawstop

Neal in San Jose

>I own a Sawstop, so the following is biased. I bought it after I saw a demo where they pushed a piece of 3/4 plywood VERY quickly, much faster than I usually saw, into the blade with a hot dog on top. The hot dog got a TINY nick. I have seen many demos that confirm what I witnessed the first time. I have used mine in many configurations including a dado blade. I'm convinced the saw would stop very quickly, even with the additional mass of a stacked dado blade, since there is a special break assembly that must be used with a dado blade. The saw simply won't start unless the brake assembly (big chunk of aluminum) is within about 1/8" of the blade. The blade also retracts as it is stopping, so there are two actions to keep injury to a minimum.

Interesting side note: I think I consider ALL of my actions more carefully now than I have a Sawstop, because it constantly reminds me, simply by it's mere presence in the shop, that I want to be safe. I catch myself putting my "other" hand in front of a chisel, or cutting with a knife toward myself, and find another way to get the job done.

Re: table saw accident

Neal in San Jose

>Very sorry to hear about your accident, but I'd like to thank you for stepping up and reminding us all about how easy it is to get hurt in this hobby we all love.

So sorry to hear it, Ed

Ellis Walentine

>Woodworking can be dangerous. I'm so sorry you lost the battle with that dado blade. Looking back, I can hardly believe that I have not had a serious tablesaw incident in all my years of woodworking. I have put my middle finger into a jointer, nicked fingers with my bandsaw, sanded other fingers almost to the bone on disk and belt sanders and hurt myself in countless other ways, but I have never actually permanently lost anything major in the bargain except my hubris. In the bargain, I have gained a lot of respect for the ability of these tools to ruin your whole day, or even your whole life. I'm sorry you had to suffer the consequences of an ill-considered technique.

You say you only have five projects to date. I would advise you to seek more instruction before you tackle the next job. We can supply specific answers here, but we can't give you the whole safety course. You just need to raise your awareness of the kinds of things that are potentially dangerous, and learn where to draw the line. There are plenty of questionable woodworking skills that you can try to learn, but it only takes one second of inattention to remind you of the risk.

Thank you for letting us know about your incident. I hope it will be a wake-up call to others, as it was to you.

Mend well. You'll be back in the shop in no time.

Ellis Walentine

Ed, you remind me of me

Geary from NJ

>About 3 months ago,as a matter of fact. Had a disagreement with my newly acquired 17" bandsaw.New bandsaw....Old Mistake!!!! I DIDN'T LISTEN TO THAT LITTLE VOICE SCEAMING IN MY HEAD. I find that every time I abuse my body parts,the voice in my head,was warning me ahead of time. The last time I ended up with 23 stitches and a real sore finger. Learn to take your time and think of safe alternatives to bad habits. Remember,accidents don't just happen to rookies,they mostly happen to seasoned vets who get brain farts. Heal soon .Geary

Please everyone listen to this

Rob Sandow

>I am so sorry about your accident Edward. I remember a few months back Ellis posted a note about one of his old friends who had 40 years experience in woodworking and wound up losing fingers on a table saw.

The overwhelming majority of these accidents seem to occur when people are doing plunge cuts on a table saw. Never ever ever do a plunge cut on a table saw. There are always better and safer alternatives to this. Use either the fence or miter gauge or a proper crosscut/panel jig. But the point is that you should never drop a piece of wood on top of a spinning blade, and you should never freehand anything on the table saw. This may seem convenient but it is a recipe for disaster.

I hate posting this after someone has just had an accident, because your life is forever changed by it and that sucks. But if anyone else can be persuaded to treat their table saw with the respect it deserves, then I think it is worth it. These things are very safe if you use them the right way.

Edward, I wish you the best. Please be careful.

Rob

I agree!

Bri in Mtl

>

Re: Sawstop *LINK*

Bri in Mtl

>The 1st video should give you info about your question...


SawStop high speed test

Re: Sawstop and high speed contact

wilbur

>I was bored once and ran through the math regarding how much damage could be done if your body was slammed into the SawStop.

The SawStop system stops the blade in 5 ms. My wrist is 3 inches wide. If I was to deliberately chop off my hand on a SawStop, I would have to get those 3 inches through the blade in 5 ms.

If you do the math, you'd have to be hitting the blade at 34 mph to do this.

This is actually a worst case scenario, and is assuming that the blade is cutting with the same efficiency throughout the 5 ms period. Remember, the SawStop mechanism also drops the blade under the table, and the blade is being slowed by the brake, so it probably isn't cutting as well towards the end of the period of contact.

Now let's look at the scenario of getting hit in the stomach with a piece of wood from kickback and falling face first on the blade. For the average person, there's about 3 feet of vertical distance between your head and the surface of the tablesaw.

Suppose the force of the blow was such that you immediately passed out, and you had a dead fall onto the blade. If you drop an object, it takes 0.45 seconds to fall 3 feet. In this time, you'll accelerate to a speed of 4.4 m/s. This works out to 9.8 mph -- much slower than it would take to chop off my wrist on a SawStop. At that speed, you'll travel into the blade only 0.8 inches in the 5 ms it takes to stop the blade. That's still a bad cut, but much better than the alternative. Realize that this estimate of the depth of the cut is exaggerated. The blade will be braking as it slows down in that 5 ms, so that the amount of time that the blade is traveling at a speed sufficient to cut human tissue is even less.

Let's take an even more ridiculous scenario. Let's suspend a woodworker from the ceiling of his shop and drop him directly on a SawStop. In order to chop off a hand at the wrist, he'll have to be going 34 mph when he hits the blade. In a dead fall, it will take him 1.5 seconds of free fall before he reaches that velocity. A dropped object will fall 39 feet in 1.5 seconds. This means that you would have to drop a woodworker from a height of 39 feet onto a SawStop before he develops the velocity needed to chop off a hand at the wrist.

(This is, of course, assuming Earth gravity. Someone else can do the math for woodworkers on Jupiter.)

Re: Ed, you remind me of me

don at central illinois

>Sorry to hear about your accident and glad it wasn't worse than it was. A few years ago I purchased a Shopsmith and was telling an uncle about the purchase (he had one of the originals from the 60's) and he mentioned that the saw doesn't know or care about the difference between wood and fingers. Only lost a small skirmish with it so far. Thanks for the reminder to keep safety uppermost.

Great calcs...but would it make a difference

Terry Alexander

>..as to how high the blade was to begin with?

I'm certainly no mathematician, but if the blade was at full height to cut 4x4's or very low to cut, say 1/4" plywood, that "should" impact the math.

Curious minds.....

Terry Alexander