Variable Speed??

Re: Variable Speed??

John K Jordan

>>>So I guess I would need a DC motor and a speed controller?

To do it right you need a 3-phase AC motor that will physically fit the lathe and a VFD which converts single phase AC to 3-phase. Or far easier, buy a different lathe that has already has variable speed.

Other option....

Brian Roberts

Since 3 phase motors are relatively inexpensive and easy to find it would be the way I would (and did) go.

Powered by a Variable Frequency Drive (VFD) the 3 phase motor can be driven by single phase power.

BTW....I would leave the step pulleys in place so you can vary the torque as well.

For well under $20 I added a speed sensor to mine so I had a display of actual lathe spindle speed regardless of which step the pulleys are on. Most VFD's will give a display of motor RPM....which will not be an accurate display of actual spindle speed unless it's direct drive....or 1 to 1 pulley sizes only.

The speed indicator...while not a necessity...is really nice to have!

Re: Other option....

Tom Norton

Okay. So it appears that he most common motors run on 220v so I would just need to run a line over to the lathe.

As for the VFD's they appear to start at about $100 on eBay. But wondering if anyone here has a model they have used?

Re: Variable Speed??

Lyle Jamieson

I agree with John. Why mess with trying to upgrade an old lathe. Still the other limits will soon drive you craze. You have limited swing and a one inch spindle and bearings that are not strong enough to do even the basic turning needs. You will spend a lot of money and time and you end up with an old lathe with patches on it. Buy a good lathe and have a lot more fun.

Careful with cheap eBay VFDs

Dick Coers

Do you understand that there is a long list of setting parameters with a VFD? You won't get any technical support from cheap VFD resellers. How good are you with electrical work? How good are you at fabricating new motor mounts? It does look much cheaper to retrofit an old lathe, but be aware you'll have a few headaches before it's back up and running.

Re: Careful with cheap eBay VFDs

John C Lucas

Ditto what dick says. You can get Vfd that run on 110 but then you cant run a motor over 1 1/2 hp. You can buy a DC motor and speed controller which i did before VFD s were available ut they are expensive and you loose a lot of power when you turn the speed.down.

Re: Careful with cheap eBay VFDs

John C Lucas

Forgot to add that having someone to call if installation goes wrong is extremely important. These are fairly complicated devices. i installed one and probably got lucky. A man called who got my name from another turner. He had purchased a motor from one ebay seller and vfd from.another and couldnt make it work.. i tried and could not either. The safest thing is to buy the motor and controller from the same company so they are matched. Dealerselectric worked.well for 2 of my friends.

X 2

Keith Newton

There is no good reason to put lipstick on a pig, because it's still just a pig.

You might be able to find a cheap 3 phase motor that is the right power and size to mount easily, but not all of them are compatible with VFD.

Then I've never seen one of the lathes this size that was very stable, if you choose to try larger out of balance blanks.

You'll be much better off just moving on up to a better lathe.

Re: Other option....

John K Jordan

>>>Okay. So it appears that he most common motors run on 220v so I would just need to run a line over to the lathe.

No, depending. A suitable 220v 3-phase motor can be driven by a VFD that plugs into 110v. Some well-respected lathes such as the 110v version of the Jet 1642 work exactly this way.

Note that converting a lathe to VS may require having both mechanical and technical competence or a brother-in-law that does.

JKJ

Re: Variable Speed??

Peter Hyde

Tom here's a couple of pics of my old Rockwell Delta that was converted before I got it.



It had a 1HP 220v 3 phase motor and a matched Leeson VFD

Served me well for many years. Weak link was the pot metal pulleys on the motor and the spindle. Once they crack you will have all sorts of problems trying to get replacements that will allow you to change speeds without adjusting the belt. 1 HP is NOT enough. I wouldn't bother with anything less then 2HP. The set up on this lathe allowed outboard turning up to about 22" diameter.

I eventually got seduced by the mustard monster but no regrets on either lathes.

Re: X 2

John C Lucas

Although i agree with Lyle and the others sometimes its not a bad step inbetween. I had an old Jline lathe that was similar to the Delta. It was missi g a tailstock quill and had a bent spindle a d no tool rest. The price was right. A friend turned a new spindle with 1 1/4" ×8 threads. I found a Delta quill that was 1/16 too large. I turned it down to size on the scbool lathe and then made a tool rest. Now i had a much more substantial lathe than the Delta 46_700 pirce of junk. Did some searching and found a DC motor and john jordan controller. That was definitely a step up. Several years later i bkught a used 3 phase motor a d was able to get a VFD at a.reasonable price. Installed that a d then made riser blocks out of MDF for the headstock and tailstock and made a new tool rest. Now i had a 16" lathe with state of the art power. That was pretty good until.i found a deal.on a Nova 3000. Put the motor and VFD on that lathe and put the DC motor ba k on the Jline. Sold the Jline and purchased another bed extension for the Nova. Then the Powermatic 3520 came out. One days turning on one of those and i knew i had to have it so i started saving. Finally got the 3520A which i still use. Why am i telling you all.of this. Modifying a lathe can be done and if your ha dy with tools and electronics you can ha e.the satisfaction of saying you did it. However. It is such a pleasure to.turn on a modern well built machine that if there is any way in your budget to.buy a new one you will never regret it. All of the modifications i made were useful and did work but were all compromises..

Re: Variable Speed??

John K Jordan

>>>1 HP is NOT enough.

My opinion: That depends on what you turn, large, small, spindles, massive bowl blanks, lidded boxes, platters, Christmas ornaments, long vases, hand mirrors, hollow forms, ... 1 HP is more than enough for many of these things.

I think it also depends on the turner, level of experience, style of turning (brute force or finesse) and tools (3/4" vs 3/8" gouge). I've turned 15.5" bowls on a 1hp 16" lathe from a solid block of wood without issues, catches, or stalls. I have a good friend who has turned 18" bowls outboard on the same little Rockwell.

Lots of factors.

JKJ

Re: Variable Speed??

Tom Norton

John, interesting response! Some of the options that have been presented are buy a new lathe, look for a good used one or do the speed update. Since I am nowhere near being accomplished Turner it seems that the least expensive way to address the challenge of variable speed is a new motor and a VFD.

Re: Variable Speed??

Don Evans

Here's the truth of the matter. Have you priced wood? Do you have a limitless supply of free wood that is large?

I'm willing to bet that most everyone on here doesn't turn anything thicker that 4 or so inches if they gotta pay for it, it's also almost impossible to fine anything thicker than that for sale.

I have a Oneway 2436 and hardly every put anything on it more that 4" thick. I did manage to get some 6" square 12" long blanks from Canada when a couple of guys up there were closing there operation. I want to make some vases and hopefully will get to them, but here is my point, I had at one time a Nova 3000 which was 1hp DC motor with controller so I had VS that lathe was a 16" diameter where yours is 10". Never once did I stall or bog down the Nova.

Some people hog off wood and maybe they need more power but that way can make turning more dangerous. Doing it that way also beats the crap out of you.

I turn exotic wood so it is rare that I turn anything big.

So take the factor of what will you be turning into account in making your decision.

There really is no wrong or right way, DC or 3 phase, they both work.

One thing is correct, setting up a VFD from scratch can be a bear if you are not versed in electronic. But the most important thing is make sure before you purchase that you will get the manuals that will be needed. If the seller cannot provide these don't buy from them.

Don

Re: Variable Speed??

Don Evans

Peter who ever set that lathe up did it right it appears. I also have a lathe just like that but not VS. It's retired now for many years.

Don

another option...

John K Jordan

>>>Some of the options that have been presented are buy a new lathe, look for a good used one or do the speed update. Since I am nowhere near being accomplished Turner it seems that the least expensive way to address the challenge of variable speed is a new motor and a VFD.

Here is another very good and much cheaper option:

Keep the lathe you have. Turn many things and become an accomplished turner. Learn what kinds of things you like to turn. Learn what limitations of that lathe get in your way.

Many, many people have turned amazing things on that lathe and others like it. Variable speed is very nice and quite convenient but it's not a shortcut to expertise. A non-VS lathe won't stop you from turning anything and it won't let you learn fine tool control quicker or do better work than the next guy.

If you gain some experience with this lathe then you will be in a far better position to know what kind of lathe would be best for you in the long run. Save the money you would spend now and add to it and in a few years you can buy the best.

JKJ

Re: Variable Speed??

mikeee12345

Another option is to find a used treadmill and salvage the DC motor and controller

from the machine and retrofit the drive system into your old lathe.

There are several videos on YouTube that detail the process of converting a lathe to this

type of drive system and control. The average treadmill has a 2-3 horsepower DC motor

and usually utilize a ribbed belt drive. You can re-use the speed controller from the treadmill

or source a cheap import DC controller of the proper size for the motor. I found the correct

sized 6-rib belt on Ebay for my lathe when I retrofitted it to a DC drive. I turned a pulley on

my metal lathe to fit the spindle shaft on the lathe, and fabricated a motor mount to adapt

to my lathe housing. You can usually find free treadmills on CraigsList if you jump on them

when they come up. There are other people grabbing up the treadmills making variable speed

belt sanders, grinders, ball mills and other such projects needing variable speed drives.

Just the opposite around here Don

Dick Coers

Around here, wood is free and available. There's a chain saw running all the time around me in the middle of the city. Take a bowl with you, and you can usually load up a truck for free. A mountain of ash is coming down. Always free wood on Craigslist too. I try to sell wood all the time at my club. If it's priced over $10, it doesn't sell. Here's a picture of a piece of oak that was delivered to my house from a client. And what I turned from that piece. It was a great sale, but still have some of the pieces.

I think we've had this discussion before

Dick Coers

I've never used a treadmill motor, but I thought they lost almost all torque at low speed. Pulley sizing will need to be critical to keep the rpm up.

Now thats good advice.   

Agree

Re: Variable Speed??

Dennis in Southern Oregon

Millions of pieces were turned on spring pole lathes in olden times. I believe that they generally limited to 1.0 HP (Human Power).

Re: Variable Speed??

Peter Hyde

I would just like to add that the Delta was a big step up from a Rockwell Beaver 3400.

I had already pushed that to the limit using a 1/4HP washing machine motor.

So tool usage and speed selection by changing pulleys were all thoroughly ingrained. So 1HP seemed to be all I would need. But the move up to a 3520B proved to be a far better step. Big HP motors have more torque and torque is what matters IMHO. I'd never stalled out the 3520B until I got into coring. Then it happened in a big way. But like everything else connected with turning there's a learning curve so the stalling wasn't a problem for very long.

Here's the old Rockwell coping with a chunk of wet sour cherry.

Re: Just the opposite around here Don

Don Evans

That's great for you Dick, I'm envious. I have chronic back neck pain so cannot weld a chain saw anymore. I have of course score on rare occasions some free stuff but that happens about every 5 years.

Don