bowl turning

Re: bowl turning

John K Jordan

>>>...the inside is a real challenge with alot of digging in I am using a green log to start and using a carbide gouge to do it all

What kind of carbide gouge? I've never seen a bowl gouge made from carbide. Are you referring to the Hunter carbide tools?

If you are using a tool with a carbide insert as a scraper it may be a matter of presenting it at the proper angle and at the right place on the inside wall. I prefer to use a bowl gouge sharpened with the wings swept back some.

Do you have problems while removing excess wood to hollow the bowl or when down the rim to the bottom, cutting across the bottom, what?

JKJ

Wood orientation? *LINK*

Dick Coers

By saying "log", should we assume you are taking a section of the log and putting it on the lathe with the grain running parallel to the bed? So turning end grain? The more information you give us, the less speculation and more help we can give you. As I mentioned in your other post, find a mentor.


http://www.woodturner.org/?page=Chapters

Re: bowl turning

philip f Duffy

Jeffery, I suggest you find someone nearby who can show you how to use a bowl gouge inside a bowl. Carbide tools are a stiff challenge for anyone, never mind a newbie. Use a scraper if you like to clean the bottom and sides but a bowl gouge is a great instrument for taking the bulk of the wood out of the bowl. You MUST stay on the bevel! Philip

Re: Wood orientation?

jeffrey bowman

Yes im cutting a green log and yes it is end grain and im using what was sold to me as a carbide bowl gouge that has a round carbide insert

Re: bowl turning

jeffrey bowman

I am using what was sold to me as a carbide bowl gouge that has a round carbide cutting insert and the problem seems when Im trying to hollow the inside I have tried cutting a different angles and at center as well as a little lower than center

It is a green piece of beech wood and im am cutting into the end grain

Re: bowl turning

jeffrey bowman

I have seen many bowl turning shows and have turned out 1 thus far however the first one was the same issue with hollowing the inside the outside is going fine

Re: bowl turning

John C Lucas

Is the cutter cupped on top.or flat. If its round and flat its.probably similar to the EZ wood carbide bowl scraper. To hollow end grain bowl where the grain runs parallel.to.the bed of the lathe you need to cut from the center out to the edge and should be cutting at or slightly above center. Cutting from the lip in especially below center will cause problems. With side grain bowls you can cut from the lip to center. Typically a scraper will.cut in either direction so if you are getting catches it may be the tool.

If you have a cupped cutter ne er present it to the wood horizontal or flat. Thats a catch waiting to happen. If the cutter is tilted forward 30 degrees then it can be used flat. As far as i know Hunter tools are the only cupped.cutters tilted forward.

John is on the right path if the tool.....

JamieDonaldson

... is a cupped tip Hunter, as there is no such animal as a carbide "bowl gouge." Never present that type of tool with the cutter horizontal to the grain center line, but angled about 45 degrees and pull cuts only, starting in the bottom center of the bowl blank.

Re: bowl turning

Darryl

I am by no means as accomplished as those who have already responded so. . . I believe what you are using is like a very sharp scraper not a gouge. Because of that it takes very shallow and thin cuts. On the inside of a bowl things change. The angle you present to the wood is different. Try "shaving" from the center out towards the rim. Only a very small amount of the cutter should touch the wood. You really should use a bowl gouge to be successful at least to get the majority of the wood out and then use your carbide cutter but watch the angle since it will be different and change as you begin to ride up towards the rim.

round carbide bowl gouge?

John K Jordan

Do you have a picture of the tool or a link with the picture? Does it have a brand name? Did it come from a store or an individual?

When you say "round carbide cutting insert" is the insert a flat disk, a cupped disk? If so, what diameter? A larger diameter disk be very grabby. A smaller diameter disk can be more controllable.

A bowl gouge can cut with just a tiny bit of the edge at the tip and can be very controllable. The small cupped carbide disk such as on the Hunter Hercules can be used much like a bowl gouge once you know how.

These are typical bowl gouges:

This is a carbide scraper, intended for finishing, not hollowing bowls:



These can be grabby if used improperly and even otherwise result in a horrible surface finish compared to a sharp gouge. Another issue is trying to use the tool with too much over hang off the tool rest. A big issue is presentation of the tool at the right position and angle - get it wrong, bam.

I only use a scraper on the inside of a bowl after hollowing and only if I have trouble removing tool marks. Even then, it's not a carbide disk but a HSS tool ground with a negative rake.

I agree with the others. 30 minutes with an experienced woodturner could identify the problem and provide a solution. Perhaps attend a club meeting in your area and ask there and meet some turners who would be glad to help.

Or take a class with a good instructor.

JKJ

Two rules for the scraper

Dick Coers

If you are using a flat carbide insert (not the cupped carbide) there are two rules that MUST be followed. Most importantly, the end of the handle MUST be higher than the tip. The tip must be on center. If you get the handle below the cutter, it self feeds and catches readily occur. Secondly, the tool rest MUST be kept close to the wood. Get too much overhang on the cutter end, and you can't provide enough strength to overcome the forces of the cutting. Waiting to see a picture of your tool, but if you have one of those short carbide starter tools, you will need a much longer handle to use it for bowl work.

Re: Two rules for the scraper

John C Lucas

Dick nailed it. I am at the hospital waiting for my stepsons treatments and my brain didnt wrap around your problem like it usually does. If the handle is lower than the cutting edge you will get nasty catches.

Re: bowl turning

Jesper, Denmark

Hi Jeffrey,

I'm an old fuddy duddy when it comes to tool selection. However, here in DK, we have some very "good" salesmen, promoting carbide cutters to inexperienced turners. It usually does not turn out well.

My suggestion is to make a small investment in a bowl gouge or two and a round nosed scraper - and learn to sharpen and use them. They do the inside job much better and the learning curve is much shorter, and you can always use the carbide gizmos later to what they are really good for.

Re: bowl turning

John C Lucas

Ive.been playing with the various carbide scrapers. The flat top scrapers like EZ wood tools are.ery easy to use. Almost no learning cure. Just keep the tool parallel.to the floor and cut onthe center line. You can really hog off wood or take fine finishing cuts. Very easy for beginners. What i dont like about them is they tear the wood and get dull much faster than i thought which means they tear the wood more. So you will need to start sandig with course grits. Most beginners using a bowl gouge dont sharpen enough and push the tool which gives excessive tearout and you still have to start sanding with course grits. However with practice you learn to sharpen the gouge and not force the cut and get much cleaner cuts.

Typing on my phone. Hope you can decipher.

John C Lucas

Regarding scrapers. A scraper made of High Speed Steel or partical metal steel like the thompsons with a gresh burr will cut much cleaner than a carbid scraper. Thats using it flat. If you use it as a shear scraper its far superior. The carbide scrapers will shear scrape somewhat when brand new but are terrible once you wear 5he new edge off.

The cupped carbide tools cutf just a.little better than the flat.9nes but hold an edge many times as long. If you use them as bevel rubbing tools the finish can be superior to most bowl gouges.

Re: Typing on my phone. Hope you can decipher.

Dick Hines

My suggestion is try to find a turned in your area. They will be able to help you.

Negative rake scrapers

john lucas

If you want a really good easy tool to use for bowl interiors make yourself a negative rake scraper. I bought this scraper blank from Doug Thompson and ground the tip into a negative rake with both angles being the same. To raise a burr I just run it across the grinder with my Robo Rest set for 45 degrees. When the burr gets dull which happens pretty quickly you simply flip the tool over, run it across the grinder and get back to work. I don't even shut the grinder off. This tool is much less grabby than other scrapers, takes just seconds to put a fresh burr on. It also does a fabulous job of shear scraping.

Re: Negative rake scrapers

Don Stephan

Jeffrey

Hope your head isn't spinning from all the different suggestions.

Try to find pictures on the Internet or in a catalog of Hunter Tools and Easy Wood tools, and let us know if any of the various models looks like the tool you have. That will help enormously. Second can you share a bit of information - how are you mounting the piece of log, what is its size and shape, what is your turning background, . . . All of this also will be very helpful.

My head IS spinning......

Jesper, Denmark

......and I have been turning for something like 20 years.

All of the suggestions brought forward here are quite sound and well thought out - from an experienced turners standpoint. But what about an inexperienced turner having to judge between all the different proposals?

If i ask the question like this:

Which two or three tools would you select if you could ONLY use those two or three?

Recommend those tools to a new turner and forget about all the exotics, which you use AFTER you became experienced.

Re: bowl turning

Mike Stafford

I wonder if Jeffrey is referring to the Hunter Osprey as his round bowl gouge? Mike Hunter does refer to the Osprey as a "bowl/spindle gouge".

The Osprey has the Hunter cutter mounted at an angle and can be presented on the bevel just like a gouge and cuts similarly.

If Jeffrey is using either of the two sizes of the Osprey in green timber it might be a challenge to rough out a bowl due to the relatively small size of the cutters. The Ospreys also have a limited reach over the tool rest and over extending that reach would offer opportunities for monumental catches.

The Osprey will cut both end grain and face grain equally well if properly presented.

Re: round carbide bowl gouge?

jeffrey bowman

Yes Im using the lower pictured tool and I will purchase a good bowl gouge as show in the top picture you provided then try again

Thank you for your time

Jeff

Re: bowl turning

jeffrey bowman

Yes I another guy showed me the proper tool and Im using something intended to finish not remove excess wood

Thank you For your time

Jeff

Re: bowl turning

jeffrey bowman

No I guess I purchased a tool intended to finish not remove excess wood so I will be purchasing a bowl gouge set now

Thank you for your time

Jeff

Re: Typing on my phone. Hope you can decipher.

jeffrey bowman

I am convinced I am using a finishing tool and will be purchasing a set of gouges

Thank you for your time

Jeff