What is the best (aka the cheapest way that actually works) to keep green turning blanks from growing mold. Just until I have time to rough turn, give them away or sell them. If I keep them out in the open then they'll start cracking from drying out too quick, but if keep them in boxes or paper bags then they start growing mold because they don't dry fast enough. Does wax sealer (melted wax or green wood sealer) work best? What about spraying the blanks down with a diluted bleach mixture before putting them away in a box or paper bag?
PS. Sorry, both my water barrels are full, & my wife insists our freezer is only for storing food so those options are out.
Re: Ways to stop green blanks from growing mold???
Re: Ways to stop green blanks from growing mold???
john lucas
Well I live in tenn. and I know the problem. End grain sealer such as Anchorseal works best for preventing mold. Sealing the end with canning wax second best. Keep green wood out of wind and sun. that speeds up cracking tremendously. If you don't have a way to store wood throw a tarp over it. That will help prevent cracking but if it's on the ground bugs get it.
For very short term I just put a plastic bag over the wood or wrap it with stretch wrap. That however does produce mold. Boxes and paper sacks are a step up from that in being fast but as you found out will also promote mold although it depends a lot on where they are stored. On a shelf high off the floor is the best place.
I like to dip the end grain in melted parrafin for smaller blanks. It's very fast and works very well. On larger bowl blanks I can't dip it so I paint on End grain sealer. I may try to rig up a pan and try dipping the larger blanks. Painting on is pretty slow but it's easy to drop a larger blank into the pan and splash the sealer all over everything.
Re: Ways to stop green blanks from growing mold???
Re: Ways to stop green blanks from growing mold???
Dave Paine
Mold needs high moisture, air and lack of light. Eliminating one or two of these should prevent the mold. We cannot eliminate the moisture until the wood dries.
As John Lucas mentioned, Anchorseal or wax will block the air to prevent the mold. Some folks just use latex paint which blocks the air and light.
Bleach will kill the existing surface mold, but its effect will not last long, then the mold will return. You could try spraying bleach into plastic bags every few days to keep an atmosphere of bleach in the bag. I think sealing the end grain is easier.
Re: Ways to stop green blanks from growing mold???
Re: Ways to stop green blanks from growing mold???
David Walser
Since both your water barrels are full, can't you buy a large plastic garbage can and fill it with your green wood and then fill it with water? (Put some liquid dishwashing soap into the water to prevent everything from getting slimy.) This will let you store the blanks for a long time without fear of cracking. Then, when you have time, you can rough turn the wet blank for finish turning later or finish turn it while wet -- basically the same options you have with green wood.
Re: Ways to stop green blanks from growing mold???
Re: Ways to stop green blanks from growing mold???
John C Lucas
Ive been running some fairly long term tests so some of my blanks and tests are 2 years old. The wax and anchorseal blanks have the least checking. I think the wood itself may have something to do with the mold. Some species seem to mold worse. All were fresh cut but i suppose there could be a differe ce in the moisture level.
Re: Ways to stop green blanks from growing mold???
Re: Ways to stop green blanks from growing mold???
John K Jordan
Karl, the other John Jordan (the famous one, also in TN) said the way to keep wood in turning shape is don't cut it into blanks. Keep it in log form, off the ground with air circulation, in the shade. When ready to use a piece he cuts about 6" off the checked end and throws it away then cuts a chunk to turn.
This eliminates the inevitable end grain checking/cracking that quickly turns individual blanks into firewood. Anchor seal will slow this down but in my experience a large blank will eventually self destruct, some quicker than others. (I did have one big cherry tree that refused to play along - one big round has been outside in the sun for years and still no splits on the ends!!)
Since the differential stresses in rounds cut from a log are high, I have a lot more success slicing them up into pieces as soon as possible, waxing the ends, and drying on wire shelves. Fortunately for me this works better for the smaller things I prefer to turn. I do process some larger blanks but if some crack I just cut them later into smaller blanks. For larger blanks I sometimes wax the entire blank, depending on the figure and where it came from in the log. I notice that many of the tropical wood blanks I have, even large ones, are entirely covered in a thick coating of wax. They look like they are dipped in paraffin.
As for mold, it needs moisture, warmth, and spores. I've had some success spraying the surfaces with clorox bleach solution and waxing after drying.
I read that boiling wood also helps, but I don't know if it just helps with stability or if it would help fight mold too.
Years ago I heard of a guy who dug a pond just to store wood.
Hey, I recently bought a chest freezer just to store full beehive supers (boxes) of honey. I have a few chunks of wood in there too. Maybe your wife would like a nice row of shiny new chest freezers down the wall of the garage! Ya think?
JKJ
Re: Ways to stop green blanks from growing mold???
Re: Ways to stop green blanks from growing mold???
Barry Irby
I thought Dave's answer was Interesting.
"Mold needs high moisture, air and lack of light. Eliminating one or two of these should prevent the mold. We cannot eliminate the moisture until the wood dries."
I have said something similar many times on Home Inspections. My statement is "Mold needs four things, warmth, oxygen, a food source and water." I am usually talking about crawl spaces and mold growing on floor joists. Perhaps lack of light is a given in that case.
Removing the water is the goal for two reasons. Once its reduced to a desirable level the blanks don't tend to crack later and remain fairly stable. And have far less tendency to mold. Unfortunately you need to remove the moisture slowly to avoid cracking and that gives the mold time to grow.
You can poison the food source. Bleach does that but only until the chlorine evaporates. Its good that it does because its no longer present to harm the Turner. There are more persistent poisons but they might be harmful to the Turner.
Wonder if you could add UV light to a slow kiln to discourage mold?
I wax mine with Anchorseal and set them on a shelf to dry. Then, sometimes, just sometimes, I go back and return them. Come to think of it, I usually turn green to finish and don't worry about it.
Re: Ways to stop green blanks from growing mold???
Re: Ways to stop green blanks from growing mold???
RonBauer
This will undoubtedly sound like heresy, but why worry about it. When you are ready to turn wire brush it off (wearing breathing protection) and have at it. On the matter of minimizing end/side checking it is advantageous to split the round as soon as possible. This significantly reduces drying stresses in the block.
Re: Ways to stop green blanks from growing mold???
Re: Ways to stop green blanks from growing mold???
dick hines
I gave up waxing wood a long time ago. I TRY to only collect the amount of wood that I can rough turn in a week or so. I will cut the blanks 6" longer than they are in dia. Take to the shop and try to rough turn it in less than a week. After I rough the blanks I soak then in Denatured alcohol over night then wrap in brown paper.
I have good luck doing this.
The alcohol is not cheap but it can reused.
Re: Ways to stop green blanks from growing mold???
"...and if you let those bad boys sit around long enough, you will have a nice pile of checked, split and honeycomb fissured logs waiting for you on the floor.
...I started taking only what I knew I could process in one week (my personal self imposed deadline). I would cherry pick the best parts of the tree (high figured sections and crotches) and pass on everything else."
If you haven't seen them, Stephen's articles contain a wealth of wisdom.
JKJ
Re: Ways to stop green blanks from growing mold???
I'm with Ron. Mold forms on the outside of wood, and I have never bothered to do anything more than just hose it down if it got real slimy and hard to handle.
Re: Ways to stop green blanks from growing mold???
I pick up gallon cans of returned latex paint that is discounted at the big box stores in the paint section.
The latex paint is an alternative to waxing or brushing anchorseal on to the end grain.
If you keep air moving across your wood you will not have a problem with mold.
Some wood turners will soak logs and blanks in a high concentration of dish soap & water, the enzymes in the dish soap will soak into the wood and help break down cellulosic membranes and speeds the drying
process when you are ready to process the logs and blanks.
If I pull a blank out of a plastic bag and it has mold, I will put it in the utility sink and run a little water and use a brush and soap to give it a quick scrub and rinse it off.
Re: Ways to stop green blanks from growing mold???
I was using paper bags and cardboard boxes to save money, but it sounds like I'd have better luck with Anchorseal. Luckily, my guild does a group purchase about once a year to get shipped in a 55 gallon drum. This cuts the price in half (compared to buying it at woodcraft stores). The drum gets divided into gallon containers that are saved from the recycle bin.
I wonder if anyone has been successful in making their own cold wax emulsion?
I have many pounds of candle wax, but it not as convenient as a product like Anchorseal.
Re: Ways to stop green blanks from growing mold???
I've not had a trouble with blanks the size of a Fry Daddy, cracking and splitting. It's the 12" diameter and above, or 8" square vessel blanks that dry so unevenly. 2 and 3" spindle stock hardly ever splits unless I take it from really small trees.
Re: Ways to stop green blanks from growing mold???
I'm a believer in Anchorseal. I still have about 3-4 gallons left from when I bought my own 55 gal drum years ago when I was sawing a lot of logs. I gave a lot of it to woodturning club members at cost (about $6/gal at the time)
It goes on thicker if you let it "dry" just a little first. BTW, the best applicator I have found for turning blanks is a cheap paintbrush in a Folgers plastic coffee can.
I have read some controversy over which is better, the original or the "new" Anchorseal recipe. I think you can still order the original.
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Mikeee12345,
Twice recently people have told me about disappointing results using paint as a sealer rather than Anchorseal. Perhaps they are using a different kind of paint. A good experiment might be to coat each side of a crosscut with a different sealer and both pieces in the same environment for an extended time.
JKJ
Re: Ways to stop green blanks from growing mold???
Had some success storing freshly turned green wood in a tub filled with about 4:1 or 5:1 water to liquid dishwashing detergent. Stored up to a year with good results. Had some I forgot and after a couple of years it was like fumed wood.
Re: Ways to stop green blanks from growing mold???
At the desert symposium last Spring, Glen Lucas told us that wallpaper sizing works well at a fraction of the cost of Anchorseal. Still have plenty of Anchorseal so I haven't tried it though.
Re: Ways to stop green blanks from growing mold???
When I was in college and working on independant research I was using parafin wax disolved with xylene to impregnate the specimins. I would bet the same thing would work on end grain. The disolved wax would get deeper and then the xylene would evaporate leaving a deep barrier. Of course you couldn't do this around flame and without ventilation. I might try it with som crabapple wood (my understanding is that it's very prone to cracking) just to see.
Re: Ways to stop green blanks from growing mold???
EBD, I don’t know anything about xylene other than cost $18/gal at Home Depot, and pretty sure not up to laboratory concentration. Still worth a try, over waiting for wax to melt & beats dipping.
Until wood MC drops below 20% mold can form on your wood. End sealers cannot entirely prevent mold growth. If peruse chapter 14 of Wood Handbook will find everything ever wanted to know about mold & stains.
Just looking at Figure 14-1. Climate index for decay hazard will enlighten you. Take that information with a grain of salt because local weather conditions from year to year, where & how you store your blanks also come into play.
Just remember, Xylene is toxic, and it will trash your liver, given a chance -- use with caution, and lots of ventilation.
Toxic solvents and stuff like Minwax Wood Hardner are just not worth doing to me. I spent 10 years working in medical research, and got plenty of exposure to nasty stuff. No thanks.
