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Knowledge You Can Build On — Est. 1998

Veritas - Innovation in Tools

turning with your eyes

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turning with your eyes

#1

turning with your eyes

john Lucas

I was laying in bed and couldn't sleep because my mind was going 100 mph which is not uncommon for me. I got to thinking about how I turn. One of the differences between new turners and experienced turners is that we use very subtle movements to control the tool. Sometimes it's a very small almost minute adjustment of the tool that makes all the difference in how it cuts.

So I was thinking about this and realize that i turn with my eyes, not my hands. Well obviously your hands do the work but when your sneaking up on a cut you stare at the edge that's going to be doing the cutting and you say to your self I just need to rotate the tool a hair to pick up that cut. You move the tool and watch the edge and your eyes tell you when your hands rotate it enough to make the cut.

I think it's a lot like surgeons who use the robots to do the work. They are watching a magnified monitor and their eyes are telling their hands to move in incredibly small increments to move that tool just a few thousandths of an inch. I noticed the same thing when I was turning my ultra miniature goblets looking through a 20 power microscope. My smallest goblet was only about .010" wide which meant to turn the bottom of the goblet bowl you were rolling a bead that was about .005" going down to the stem. My hands were able to move in increments that small because my eyes were telling me what to do. Just to give a comparison so you know what I'm talking about my smallest goblet is .023" which is about the size of the period at the end of this sentence.

When turning forms generally you watch the form instead of the tool. I may be cutting on the side closest to me but I'm watching the shape on the backside and my eye is telling my hands what to do to continue that shape as the tool moves along. That only comes from experience and the more practice you have the better you are. That's why I'm a big fan of spindle turning. It teaches you to do all these shapes more or less in miniature compared to bowls and hollow vessels. So when you can do those smaller shapes well you have learned the coordination between eye and hand that helps you do the larger shapes.

Does that make sense to you. I hope so. Obviously sharp tools are a must to be able to pick up a cut with these incredibly tiny movements so it's well worth practicing to sharpen and to do it often.

Re: turning with your eyes

#2

Lyle Jamieson

Right On

Lyle Jamieson

Great explanation. We are also looking at the transition shoulder between what was just cut and what has to be cut. This shoulder tells us how fast to swing the handle. Move the handle faster or slower to increase or decrease the size of the transition shoulder.

Re: turning with your eyes

#3

Re: turning with your eyes

Barry Irby

I taught my son to turn about 17 years ago, he was about 13. Maybe I should say that I allowed him to learn to turn. I taught him as much as I could and then got VCR tapes (Really, they existed) and let Richard Raffin do what he could. We were watching a tape and he blurted out, "Did you see what he did?!! Richard was spindle turning or maybe it was a box. I saw him waving a chisel around. My son saw that he changed the angle from ten after twelve to nine after. I watched it several more times and he was right, but I never "got it".

You are right. Turning has more to do with the eyes than most of us think.

You can also judge sharpness by ear. I have a friend that can tell if a plane you are using is sharp without seeing it.

Re: turning with your eyes

#4

Re: turning with your eyes

john Lucas

Barry I read one time that when a plane was really sharp there was a sort of whistle when you pass the cutter through the work. At first I never heard it and thought my tools were sharp. Later on I learned to really really get them sharp and one day I heard it. It was so cool.

Re: turning with your eyes

#5

Keith Tompkins

Re: turning with your eyes

Keith Tompkins

Good post John, One could write a book on the subject. A turner must train their eyes as well as their hands; so many go to the lathe and "just see what happens or let the wood speak". If you KNOW what you want to create, it's a lot easier to "see" the results and end up with successful work. Many newbies are happy just to make, and cannot really see the flat spots, torn grain, etc. One must study good form, and then look at their work with a critical eye in order to develop their skills. I feel it's bad advise to tell turners that they should make cuts in one continuous motion top to bottom; I think it's far more important to see the shape develop,see the line, and develop the ability to go back and fine tune a curve. Eye and hand coordination.

Re: turning with your eyes

#6

Re: turning with your eyes

david

Keith: "I think it's far more important to see the shape develop,see the line, and develop the ability to go back and fine tune a curve". Agree wholeheartedly. However, when it comes to determining which path the line takes, some people have it and some people don't. There are proportion guidelines, like the golden mean, but a pleasing form is very subjective. I have always used what I consider an inadequate term, but for lack of something better, call it "taste". Hard to define what good taste is.

Re: turning with your eyes

#7

Re: turning with your eyes

robo hippy

Makes me think of several things. One from my old Wing Chung instructor: "Beginners make big movements, Masters make small movements". There are a lot of very subtle things we do that we don't even think about because they are old habits that we learned. Perhaps the most difficult thing to teach.

On using the eyes, if I am watching the cut, I would guess that I am watching the form develop rather than trying to see the cut happen. I think I have made it an 'every time' habit to run my hands over the form just to feel it because some times I can feel things better than I can see them, and yes, I do have prescription glasses.

Perhaps another point is 'feeling' the cut, too much, too little, just right.. It was also a point that my martial arts teacher stressed 'sensitivity'. I always liked martial arts movies, that there are frequent ones with the blind master kicks every one's butts. Latest favorite character is 100 Eyes from the Marco Polo series.

robo hippy

Re: turning with your eyes

#8

Re: turning with your eyes *LINK*

Mike Potts

Yea, I'm rather strange I hear voices,sometimes from the wood I'm turning.


http:///www.etsy.com/listing/267808955/black-walnut-natural-edge-bowl?ref=shop_home_active_1

Re: turning with your eyes

#9

Re: turning with your eyes

John McGaw

True up to a point. Planning for and executing the cut is a visual thing but there is also a tactile element: you feel how well the cut is going and adjust subtly by the feedback of touch and when you are done you really can't tell anything about the success of the finish or shape without touching. To me, no turned shape is right until it feels right - no visual clue will tell you more than your fingers since you can easily feel discontinuities in the thousandths of an inch even if you can't see them. Just my two pence worth...

Re: turning with your eyes

#10

Keith Tompkins

Re: turning with your eyes

Keith tompkins

John, I see your point and agree about the tactical aspect; however if one detects a line that varies a few thousands from the desired shape, they have two choices. Leave it as is, or have confidence in their abilities to take that final cut. In the final analysis, it comes down to eye and hand coordination. One thing I do is feel for a high spot, and mark it with a pencil line, then remove just enough wood to remove the pencil line.

Re: turning with your eyes

#11

Keith Tompkins

Re: turning with your eyes

Keith Tompkins

John, here is the tip of my "practice finial" I posted below, the dime shows the scale. In the image, the dime seems magnified about 5 times normal size. The tip was turned only, no sanding, so sharp tools are a must. The reason I'm posting this is to show the importance of practice; you cannot just decide to turn small items, it takes much practice, and the fine motor skills required to turn this small. Only with magnification can you see the defects in the details.

Re: turning with your eyes

#12

Keith Tompkins

Re: turning with your eyes

Keith Tompkins

I'm having fun with this....here is a dime, still shown a bit bigger than it is, compared with the magnified image.

Re: turning with your eyes

#13

Re: turning with your eyes *LINK*

walta

Before you accept the premise of this thread.

Please take a few minutes visit Michael Blankenship’s website.

Michael is 100% blind his forms and lines great.

In my opinion if you only look at his pieces you have not truly experienced his work, they must be felt.

He turns by feel and sound. I think sight is a luxury.

Michael will be demonstrating at the AAW 2016 symposium in Atlanta.

Yes you will almost always see a bandage on one hand or the other.

Walta


Michael Blankenship

Re: turning with your eyes

#14

Re: turning with your eyes

John C Lucas

I believe my statement still stands. The blind have learned to use sound and feel the way we use our eyes. My premise is that we coordinate the sight, sound and feel and translate this into very subtle movements that give us the control to make clean accurate cuts. Ive had a blind turner in one of my classes and watched him do these little adjustments. Its pretty amazing

Re: turning with your eyes

#15

Re: turning with your eyes

Ron Pemberton

I seem to remember there is a woodworker who builds furniture who is also blind.