sand and snow

I believe the Klingspor gold has .....

JamieDonaldson

...cloth backing, at least the older stuff does. I "dumpster dived" in the scrap box at the Hickory store many years ago, and have a lifetime supply of mostly 400 grit left now. Double sided tape also works well to secure sandpaper/cloth to sticks for getting into confined spaces.

Re: I believe the Klingspor gold has .....

John K Jordan

I glue sandpaper to little stainless spatulas (normally used for mixing glue) to get into tight places when carving.

And popsickle (sp?) sticks work well!

Re: sand and snow

Dale Bonertz

I use mostly velcro backed disks or rolls. Not for any particular reason other than I can find all sorts of ways to hold it. If I need to get in to a cove I can put the mating velcro on a dowel and attach the disk. I use paint stirring sticks with velcro for the tight detail areas (hand sand there as well). I will glue the mating velcro on anything that I need to get the job done (soft, hard or etc.). I also like the variety of backing pads that Vince offers and use them on power or hand sanding.

Re: sand and snow

david

I use a piece of leather scrap--the thicker ones about 1/16" thick, cut to the size of a quarter sheet of sandpaper folded in half. This gives the folded quarter sheet more rigidity and insulates my fingers from the heat build-up. The folded sandpaper is turned over and a new side is ready for use. I punch or burn a hole on the leather rectangle in the center of a short edge and hook them on to a rare earth magnet with a hook attached. The hook/magnet is placed in numerous convenient places on the lathe and keeps the leather backing from getting lost. This tip was from one of the charter members of our club, but he may have gotten the idea elsewhere. I improvised on the idea with the hole for the hook.

Re: I believe the Klingspor gold has .....

Brad Vietje

Hey JKJ,

I hope you guys fare well in the storm. Not expected to do anything up here.

At the AAW Symposium in Providence (2002?), I got a 500' roll of 2" wide Klingspor 220 cloth-backed abrasive (red), plus all the Klingspor Gold cloth backed sheets, rolls and remainders that would fit in a shopping bag for about $35 total (the roll was something like $20 and the rest was by the pound), and I'm still using it.

I like the heft of the cloth-backed abrasives, especially for rolling up an 8" length into a cylinder for sanding into coves, curves and hollows. I can also double it up and create a convex curve of almost any diameter, and many other methods.

I basically hate sanding, so I try to do everything I can do to avoid it -- always best to get the finest surface off the tools to reduce the "down time" of sanding.

I recently re-read an article form almost 10 years ago about the "Zen of Woodworking", in which we are encouraged to enjoy every part of the process and value that moment as much as any other, so maybe I need to rethink the hate part, but I'll still do what I can to minimize the time I spend (getting pleasure from) sanding.

Safe spinning,

Brad Vietje

Newbury, VT

Re: I believe the Klingspor gold has .....

John K Jordan

>article from almost 10 years ago about the "Zen of Woodworking",

>in which we are encouraged to enjoy every part of the process and

>value that moment as much as any other...

I must have read that article and forgot - I don't mind sanding at all and actually enjoy it. Or maybe it was a discussion I had with an "expert" turner when I first started - he said he hated hated hated sanding. When I looked at his bowls I could tell! - I decided right then that I didn't want ripples and circular scratches in anything I made.

What I have NEVER liked is frustration trying to remove stubborn scratches or [horrors!] tearout, especially in end grain and on the inside of things. Fortunately this frustration almost disappeared as I learned to sharpen better and control the tools better. And when I started to use the little rounded cabinet scrapers effectively things got exponentially easier - the scrapers remove any ripples and tool marks quickly without making deep sandpaper scratches. Where I used to start with perhaps 180 grit I can usually start now with 320, 400 or even 600 at times (depending on the wood). Of course, I almost always turn dry wood if that makes any difference.

One thing I found about sanding through the grits that really helped me - before moving to a finer grit I always sand across the scratches I just made with that paper (with lathe off, of course). I figure if I can't remove the scratches I just made with 320 paper they must really be deeper scratches left over from a coarser grit and I'll never remove them with 400! This completely eliminates the unpleasant surprise of finding deep hidden scratches when using the finest grits. I hate that!

Last year I visited a Klingspor store in NC and dug through their big bins of sandpaper sold by the pound. I did by a 10" (?) wide roll of 220 grit i use occasionally for flattening things. But there were none of the 1" or 2" rolls I use at the lathe. Fortunately, our club signed up for the 10% off everything deal so I just ordered some - now I have a two-lifetime supply of 320 and 400 grits! Should I put you in my will? :-)

JKJ

Best quote ever from JKJOne thing I found about sa

john lucas

John this is one of the best things you've ever said. " One thing I found about sanding through the grits that really helped me - before moving to a finer grit I always sand across the scratches I just made with that paper (with lathe off, of course). I figure if I can't remove the scratches I just made with 320 paper they must really be deeper scratches left over from a coarser grit and I'll never remove them with 400! This completely eliminates the unpleasant surprise of finding deep hidden scratches when using the finest grits. I hate that! "

The other tip I'll add is wipe it down with a rag or even a rag with Naptha after each grit. I find that sanding dust often fills scratches left by previous grits and you don't find them until you get to 400 or 600. I think these scratches are often left by that one grain that is larger than the stated paper size. It's a waste of time to sit there and sand and sand with 220 grit trying to get out some tear out when you should bite the bullet and step back to 180 or 150. Sand these bad areas with the lathe off and it's surprising how quickly you will get rid of them. Once they are gone you can go back to power sanding with the finer grits

Naptha and light

John K Jordan

Yes, I learned to use the naptha too! Amazing, what it will show.

I think another thing sometimes overlooked is simply good light. Scratches can be almost invisible with broad, diffuse light such as from long ceiling fluorescents or indirect lighting. I do have a bright 4-bulb 8' fixture over each lathe but they are on separate switches so I can flip them off while turning and sanding. I use several smaller light sources on adjustable arms. Not only does this let me see and judge the compound curves better, the undesirable ripples and the scratches show up far better. (The bright LED light from Ken Rizza is good for this.)

Another thing that REALLY helps me see any kind of defect is to simply unscrew the chuck and view the surface in glancing light while tilting the piece at different angles. If I can't see the problem there ain't no way I can fix it!

(Once I finished a shallow-dished cedar Penta-style platter/plate which looked perfect on the lathe. When I took it out of the chuck I almost threw it in the burn barrel! - there were "mild" but horrible undulating ripples on the concave face that didn't show up when it was on the lathe. Fortunately a short session with a large, gently curved cabinet scraper saved the day - and made a nice wedding present!)

I wonder if some of the problems I see in show-and-tell pieces might simply be from lighting issues.

BTW, I think I mentioned this several times so sorry if it's getting old, but I haven't power-sanded for ages. With my collection of cabinet scrapers I simply don't find it necessary. And it's certainly better for my lungs!

When I DID power sand I always followed each disk with sanding by hand with the same grit (with the lathe off) for the same reason mentioned before - to make sure the swirls were not masking some deeper scratches.

JKJ

Re: Naptha and light

Brad Vietje

John,

Any curved cabinet scraper recommendations?

I've also used a 1" round nose scraper and a teardrop scraper inside bowls with a shear angle, but it can be difficult to get enough clearance to use a shear angle in the proper direction, and a whopper of a catch (and possibly a crushed finger) awaits those who try this and don't keep the handle in the lead.

Safe spinning,

Brad Vietje

Newbury, VT

Re: Naptha and light

john lucas

Getting rid or tearout on problem woods is a 12 step process. OK maybe a few less. First use sharp tools. Second, use sharper tools if you can, by that I mean tools with a more acute cutting tip. If that doesn't work shear scraping with possibly a soaking with thinned lacquer or CA. Usually at this point it looks gone until you start sanding. Then you have to make the decision to go back to scraping which can be dangerous if the bowl has moved, or you start with a cabinet scraper or sand just that area with courser paper.

using small cabinet scrapers

John K Jordan

>Any curved cabinet scraper recommendations?

Brad,

I bought sets of small cabinet scrapers first at Highland Hardware (before it was Highland Woodworking) and at Woodcraft. I've also made some by cutting up larger cabinet scrapers.

I have never had a hint of a catch, pinch, or any loss of control and I've used them for maybe 10-12 years. I hold them in the air, away from the rest, tilted downwards significantly. I've found nothing better to clean up the very center of a bowl or platter. They have to be sharp.

I like these so much better than coarse sandpaper. Besides eliminating the sanding dust it is easier to preserve crisp detail, especially on gentle coves on a rim or edge of a lid. I don't know if it's any faster than sanding (I rarely get in a hurry either way) but I think I get a better surface. It certainly saves on buying sandpaper. And there is the Zen thing. :-)

I wrote this for someone recently:

On the outside of a form I usually use a flat edge on a scraper (properly sharpened) and hold it against the slowly rotating piece with the flat edge approximately horizontal or slightly angled. I tilt the entire scraper downwards so the cutting edge is lower than the back edge. I hold the scraper in my fingers and not against the tool rest, although I sometimes pull the rest back and support my wrist or hand on the tool rest. Sometimes I scrape at the top or bottom of the form, sometimes with the lathe turning in reverse. I do a lot of scraping with the lathe turned off, sometimes with the piece taken off the lathe. Working with the lathe off is especially good to remove irregularities in the middle at the bottom on the inside a bowl and to remove little ridges anywhere. I often scrape with the grain.

On the inside of a bowl I mostly use the small rounded scrapers. Just don't do what one gentleman reported some years go - he used a larger scraper inside a closed form. It got away from him and injured his hand if I remember correctly.

There is a "sweet" spot where extremely thin shavings will peal off the scraper. Again, the scraper must be sharpened properly, exactly as you sharpen a standard cabinet scraper - grind and/or file, burnish to raise the cutting edge.

I use these on almost every turning now except for small things and thin spindles. However, I did use a square one on one very thin spindle, a 12" shaft tapering from about 1/4" to 1/8". It was giving me grief with vibration regardless of all my tricks but the scraper cleaned it up beautifully, held at an angle against the very top, supported underneath with my fingers.

This is the first one I used, made by cutting the end off the large curved scraper that comes in some sets. I used just this one for years. Unfortunately I must have dropped it into a tub of shavings and lost it. :-(

This is most of what I use now. The small ones are pretty thin. I use the small ovals the most. I occasionally sharpen on the Tormek or grinder (90 degrees), file or hone with a stone or fine diamond hone, then burnish with a carbide rod to create a cutting edge on both top and bottom.

I use the big ones rarely; occasionally the long curves come in handy to smooth the bottom of a shallow dish. I occasionally regrind one to a specific shape.

From the Woodcraft web site:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/158977/Lynx-Mini-Scraper-Set-4pc.aspx

JKJ