I'm starting to consider lighting for my shop. I thought I would look at LED lighting. Wow, they like those. $400. OK I know they are supposed to be great and but bulbs supposedly last a very long time but I can buy a 4 light Flourescent fixture for $54 minus the bulbs. Yea I know you have to change bulbs fairly regularly but I can change a lot of bulbs for about the $350 difference. Of course the biggest problem is that I like lots of light in my shop so trying to figure out how many lights I need.
Supposedly if you believe the hype One LED light puts out as much light as 3- 4 bulb Flourescent lamp fixtures. However it seems to me like I would have much more even lighting with 2 or 3 lights vs one bright light.
Im still guessing but it looks to me like I would need 5 or 6 LED lights to light the shop evenly and could probably do that, maybe not quite as bright but more even with 8 or 9 Flourescent fixtures.
So with some very rough figuring I an do LED lights for about $2000 and Flourescent for about $500. I guess you know which way I'm going to have to go. Especially when you consider that the garage was over budget leaving me to kind of scrip on the shop.
Glad to hear things are moving along. I would wire it up for all the fixtures you might need, but only purchase & install the ones that are absolutely necessary for now. It will help spread the cost into more easy bites to digest.
In my shop I used mirrored bathroom vanity lights. I was able to mount them wherever I needed, and they have multiple sockets(4-12), so I can really put light where I need it. They were almost giving them away at the local Re-store. I currently have CFL's in them and will replace with LED when they go bad.
Last time I priced it out the T8's were about as much different price wise compared to LED's as you're finding - at least for what I could figure for delivered lumens (more accurately lux). Figuring out the real comparison (which I admit to never having done) was worse than reading dust collection threads because of the different methods of delivering the light (led's are directional, fluorescent are not) makes any sort of 1:1 comparison a straight up exercise in frustration. I'm a wee bit surprised that the delta is still that high (but I was comparing with cheap t8 fixtures as well, the light delivered from the $20 ones seems about as good as the $100 ones to my - admittedly not so good - eyes, we have the $100 one in the laundry room for aesthetic reasons ).
The t8 bulbs also seem to last a heck of a lot longer than the old t12's although that's likely in large part because I'm comparing electronic ballast with the t8's versus magnetic ballast for the t12's.
Do spring for the "daylight" bulbs though - at least in the main work area. I believe I have 5000K bulbs "The Philips 32-Watt Neutral Full Spectrum Linear Fluorescent Light Bulb (10-Pack) helps create a cool and refreshing atmosphere in a room. These bulbs cast a bright, white glow that is similar to natural daylight." Yeah sure... sort of... its not actually quite like daylight, but its a heck of a lot better than the old yellows I had and a bit less harsh than a 6500k I tried.
Hey John! I've been lurking and reading here for a while after a long absence, way busy with farm, animals, kids, and building a shop from the dirt up. I haven't had time to jump in posting here yet but I saw your note about lighting and couldn't stop myself!
I built a 24x62 shop over the last few years and had the exact internal discussion about lights, except then LEDs were not nearly as available as they are now. I have the same requirements as you: not to go into debt for the lighting and have lots of light!
I looked a lots of different options and I decided on this: the four-bulb T5 fluorescent fixtures with electronic ballasts. These are AMAZING. Not only are they super bright, they have a "hidden" feature in the ballasts that was not advertised in the store: they can easily be wired to turn on only two bulbs with the main switch. Switch an extra wire in the fixture to either ground or hot and the other two bulbs turn on! Most of the time just the two bulbs are plenty of light which saves electrical cost, but when needed, the extra blast of light is really great (especially for the old eyes).
Our local HD uses these fixtures for high bay store lighting.
BTW, the T12s have the lowest light, T8s are brighter, the T5s are brighter still, and the HighOutput T5s are even brighter still. I use the daylight HO which I THINK are about 5000 lumens per bulb. These are nearly as good as photo lights in color temperature, great for judging colors.
I wired nine of these 4-bulb fixtures in four zones in my new shop: turning, flat wood shop, welding room and vehicle maintenance bays, spit between 6 switched circuits. I mount the "normal" light switches at normal height and the "extra light" switches higher on the wall so there is never confusion. Some of my fixtures are 4' with four bulbs and some are 8' with four bulbs (two and two) for longer areas such as down a long wall. The 8-footers mount directly against the ceiling but the 4-footers are supposed to be suspended a little for cooling.
When I turn them all on one friend jokes that he needs sunglasses. :-)
When I bought them a couple of years ago they were about $85 a fixture at HD and the bulbs were about $10 each - looks like the fixtures are still high but the bulbs have come down. I have been burning some nearly every day for over two years and haven't had to replace a bulb yet.
This is one of those things that if I had to do over again, I would get the same fixtures. I absolutely love them. And cheerful in the winter - no chance of Seasonal Affective Disorder!
BTW, over the lathe I do have an 8' fixture on the ceiling (9' high) but I don't usually use it when turning - I prefer multiple smaller fixtures, closer to "point source" lights. Some are on swing-arms, some LED, some CFLs. This gives much better light for judging compound curved surfaces on the lathe. (But you know this!) So I wired one switch to control several outlets high on the wall and ceiling so I can plug in and turn on all these directed light fixtures at once.
Oh, one more thing I did in my shop which I really get a lot of use out of: I mounted a series of lower wattage LED ceiling lights through the entire shop as "passage" lights. These are on all the first switch at the entrance door. These easily provide enough light to go anywhere in the shop to get tools, materials, or load the shotgun! When I need to do some detail work I flip on the bright T5 fixtures. I used mostly used recessed lights that fit into ceiling cans, but also some screw-in bulbs in porcelain fixtures. Hey, if you can use them I bought a case of the normal, round plastic ceiling fixture boxes for use around the farm and I have WAY more than I need. If you get over towards Knoxville/Clinton I can give you some of these and probably some other electrical things you might find useful (and I can show you the shop and give you some wood!)
It turns out I will probably be in Clinton layer this week but I don't think I'll have time to go by. A friend has stuff in an Antique booth somewhere and needs help retrieving it. He and his wife are both getting older. He has a shoulder problem and she has MS and they just can't maintain their huge house with a gazillion antiques. they are going to do the 127 flea mkt and try to get rid of some. My wife and I are going to help them as much as we can.
If it turns out that he's not in a huge rush I may give you a call. If not I'll just plan on it later. Always wanted to see your place.
I'm glad to see that the LED's have come down a lot. We don't have a home depot around here but they aren't too far away. Still in the planning stages for my lighting but will sure give them a serious look if they are priced that low.
Could you use some help loading? I'm doing a demo at the woodturning club Tuesday evening but am free Wed, Thur, and early Fri morning. I'd love to come help (and bring you a fresh bottle of honey!). I have dollys and moving things.
Also, if it would be useful, I have a spare 4x6 closed trailer you could borrow - I can do without it for a month or so. And I have a truck and a covered horse trailer (and some big trailers) if they have a LOT of stuff. If it was on Wednesday or Thursday my arm could easily be twisted for a road trip to your area to deliver a load - that way I could check out your new place! :-)
If the antique mall is the one in downtown Clinton it is less than 5 minutes from our farm.
JKJ
BTW, this is the layout of the shop I built with my bare hands over the last few years. (I can't lie, I used tools.) I built it down by the barn - when the weather is nice I can open the double doors by the lathe and keep an eye on the llamas!
John I'm guessing it will be Thursday or Friday and we could probably use the help. Larry had a really bad shoulder and mine is still healing. Send me an e-mail with a number to reach you and I'll talk to Larry and see.
A friend of mine buys "stuff" at freight auctions. I have been trying to buy LED lights for my shop for some time. The problem is if they have a few like four to Six they go for too much money each. If the have a pallet of them with forty or fifty they might go for $20 each, but I don't want to spend $1,000 to get the six I need. If I get a good batch I will let you know and maybe we can share.
The Costco lights are awesome-best lights I have. I bought 6 and mean to get that many more to replace the standard 8 footers. $40 each-about the same as the cheap shop lights, but much better.
I remodeled my shop two years ago and put recessed florescents in the ceiling with T8 bulbs. With brand-new fixtures I figured it would be a long time before needing to change out any bulbs. I'm getting to the age where I'm not as comfortable as I used to be getting up on a step ladder to change bulbs. There are six fixtures, each with multiple bulbs. In two years I have already replaced most of the bulbs, which does not make me happy.
About a month ago I received the new Lee Valley summer catalog in the mail. There is a big spread, I think eight pages, with a huge selection of LED lighting of many types, a lot of it is in kit form and is easily custom fit for any situation, indoors or out. Much of it is lighting that goes into florescent-style fixtures. I don't claim to keep up with this sort of thing, but I was amazed at what is available out there now. There are some that allow you to change the color of the lighting with your cell phone.
If this had been available when I did my shop, I definitely would have gone with LEDs.
John, I had the same troubles when I built my shop. No body to help me. My first priority was I wanted to get the right light without any buzzing noise from florescent fixtures. I had buzzing even from elect ballasts. I found this small local lighting store that helped me. Ended up with t8, 4, 4 foot bulbs per fixture. Don't know the brand of the fixture. They had a computer to do the math. I told them I wanted good lighting "like Kmart stores" The came up with 15 fixtures for a 24x26 shop space with 10 foot ceilings to get the lumens needed. The distance from the lights is a key factor. You will not likely get this kind of detailed help from a big box store. The cost was not cheap but reasonable. and the bulbs have lasted for almost 10 years now.
Hmm, I think we are on the cusp of a lighting break through, with the LED lights leading the way. I do have over head banks of lights over my general work areas, and individual spot lights for work stations for the up close work. Maybe next time I change lights I will look into LEDs.
Careful here -- some low-priced LEDs are junk, and some have poor quality control, so you could get color variations, too.
I agree that there are some pretty good LED values, but I got burned selling some of the low-ball junk in my solar business, and had to eat them, and replace them with something better (and more expensive).
I've been out of that rat race for ~3 years now, so I'm not current on brands, but as a general rule, the least expensive electronics are often a poor long-term value.
I've also been quite impressed with High-Output T-5 lamps, BTW, and may rig a few with reflectors for general lighting, and 1-2 LED accent/inspection lamps for close-up work.
When I initially built my shop over 30 years ago I just had a series of outlets installed so that I could put in any kind of lights I wanted.
I started out with fluorescent shop lights which are not the best and flicker like mad during the winter.
I switched to T8 fluorescents (6500K daylight) and they don't seem to put out as much light but they also don't flicker here in the winter. It might be colder where you are. I have 9 4-foot fixtures in my shop.
So I added some in line incandescent bulb fixtures and use 200w bulbs which really augment the fluorescent lights. I have 6 of these fixtures spaced between the rows of my fluorescent fixtures. They really put out a lot of light but they are hotter than you know what during the summer. I have them on pull switches so I can turn them on when and where I need the light.
Lastly I bought some LED lights on swivel mounts that I mounted on the ceiling that I can plug into the ceiling outlets when I need to direct bright light where I am working. I have 4 of these mounted so I can have bright white light over the table saw (actually a wood stand these days), band saw, lathe, work bench and miter saw stands.
I also have my dedicated Sanders lights for the lathe.
When everything is on it is like the sun. I can really see what I am doing. But the drawback is that it is hard to take pictures with all that light on.
Personally I don't think you can have enough light and specially task lighting placed in areas where you need it that will not cast shadows when your body is there working. It is hard to know exactly where you need the lights until you get your machines where you want them or at least it was for me.
John I cannot stand flourescent lights so I did switch to LEDs, I use the equivalnt of 100 watts, 2 of them over the lathe, one behind the work and the other in the front. I have 2 other bulbs, 60 watts equivalent as the room lights. That is plenty light for me, I buy them at Lowes, around $20 for the brights and $13 for the others.
I hate traditional fluorescent light fixtures. Period. To rid myself of them, I made shop-made "fixtures" for 100 watt equivalent CFL bulbs. I used:
1/4" or 3/8" plywood, 1 ft wide and 4 feet long.
3 porcelain sockets from Lowes, about 1 3/8 diameter and 1.5" long.
Heavy duty aluminum foil from the kitchen.
Lamp cord with a plug.
Drill three holes in the plywood, spaced appropriately. Mount sockets in the holes. Cover the lamp side of the plywood with aluminum foil to serve as a reflector. Secure the foil with tape. Wire the sockets with the lamp cord.
Hang the fixture using whatever method suits your situation. Long wood screws into ceiling joists will work, or you can suspend them with a wire.
Three bulbs will provide about 4500 lumens. You can mix and match the color temperature of the bulbs to give the "color" you prefer. The fixture (three bulbs) draws less than an amp of current.
John I don't remember if I had replaced my Metal Halide monsters with the T5's when you were last here. The woodworking part of the shop is 32 x 48 and I have eight 4', 4 bulbs like John K. described. I'm very pleased.
I think they were $120 each including 4 bulbs.
Recently added an addition including a 25 x 18 room with lift, welding, etc. and I put 4 units in that room. Too many! Could have gotten by with 2. Fortunately they are on two separate circuits/switches so I don't have to wear sunscreen if I go in for a short visit.
Chuck We talked about your ceiling when I was there but don't remember if we discussed lights. I went to John K's shop Friday and it's really nice and bright. I may try to get down to John Jordan's shop and see his LED lights that he got from Costco. I would like to go that way if they are as nice as everyone says. The $40 price tag along with the brightness makes them sound interesting.
What I'm still up in the air on is replacement bulbs when they do go out. It's been my experience that the Compact Flourescents don't last anywhere near as long as they predicted so the 10 year or so life predicted by the LED makes me wonder when and how expensive the replacement lamps will be for the LED's.
I use the T5s with a 9' ceiling covered with 1/2" plywood. The 8' fixtures (with four 4' bulbs) can be fastened directly to the ceiling. I suspect they run cooler since the bulbs are spaced out more.
The 4' fixtures with four bulbs must be hung with clearance for heat. I didn't provide as much clearance as they specified but when I hung the first one temporarily as a test I monitored the temperatures with a Fluke IR thermometer - the ceiling immediately above the 4' fixtures reached only 4-7 degrees F above the rest of the ceiling.
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