Vicmarc Trouble***

Re: Vicmarc Trouble***

gil in san diego

>What is their email address? I would like to ask them about this so that they know they are stepping on their own toes in addition to yours.

Re: Vicmarc Trouble***

Doug Trembath

>David, I've turned on a short bed Vic for about four years now, and haven't experienced anything like the symptoms you have outlined. Maybe just lucky, I guess. In my own humble opinion, the primary responsibility for customer service resides with the dealer you bought the lathe from. It seems to me it's incumbent on them to offer a quality product, which the Vic absolutely is, and then to stand behind the product, interceding as your agent with the factory on your behalf. I was the first to purchase a Vic from an Australian turning store, as a test case, and though the dealer handled the shipping, I was responsible to handle the customs clearance, delivery, etc. Although my dealer was way down under, I got exemplary service from him when a switch operator was broken during shipment. Believe it or not, I had a new switch before I got the wiring done. That's service.

As an aside, were you able to identify the problem? Really, the lathe is one of the simplest machines we use, in both concept and in execution, so I would wonder what could go so wrong that the entire lathe would have to be shipped back to the factory.

The symptoms suggest it could be a variety of issues, but having worked on machinery most of my life, and having been all through the Vic at one time or another, without seeing the actual indications, I would say the problem would probably reside in the VFD setup, as it can induce some wild fluctuations in perfrmance, or in the drive alignment maybe. Can you move the spindle back and forth, or any other obvious culprits like that? Remember, it takes about a month for the shipping from there to the West Coast, and it costs quite a bit. I'd have to side with Vicmarc and repair the one you have rather than pay to ship a new one and return ship the original. Did they offer to send out a qualified repairman? Let us know a few more of the details, and I'll bet some pressure can be brought to bear to alleviate your concerns.

Keep your chin up, and keep us informed.

Doug Trembath

Studio in the Woods

Re: Vicmarc Trouble***

Doug Trembath

>David, I just reread my reply to your post about your lathe problems. I find I did misunderstand the lathe model, thinking it was the larger lathe, but after looking at it again, I think my answer still stands on it's own merits. Did you have a dealer, or buy it from Vicmarc itself? I'm not aware if they sell to the public or not. I hope the post wasn't too simplistic, but upon reflection, it still can be only a limited number of issues that would cause this particular set of problems, and your post didn't have any specifics as to the actual determination of what was wrong with the machine. I'd suspect the VFD unit, and most probably it would be the electronic setup parameters out of spec, since you have an excessive heat problem coupled with the vibration. Then again, is it the motor that's getting hot, or the headstock bearings, or what? I'd like to help in any way I can, just as one turner to another, part of the fraternity, if you will. And as another proud Vic owner. I must have missed your original posts about the problems you were having.

Again, best of luck, and keep us informed as to the progress.

Doug Trembath

Studio in the Woods

Don't despair!...>>

RonZ

>Hi David,

I'm sorry to hear about your problem but as mentioned below, the dealer is your first point of contact. Where did you buy it from?

I sell Vicmarc here in Israel and I own the VL100 with VSM and the VL300 w/ VSM shortbed model with full extension and I turn for a living. They are the best machine you can buy for your money. They also had an excellent write up in the recent issue of Woodturner magazine from the UK.

This doesn't help you with your problem but I will foward your post to the apropriate party there and see what is going on.

All the best,

Ron

Re: Vicmarc Trouble***

David Wheeler

>Vicmarc Machinery (vicmarc@vicmarc.com)

Here was an email from them that I received ont 5/4/04:

Dear David

Due to the problems you are experiencing we would like to offer a replacement lathe. Please advise details of the VL100 you have - model, spindle thread size. We will make a replacement lathe and ship it to you.

We would appreciate having the original lathe sent to Craft Supplies so we can inspect it. You can use the packing off the replacement lathe to sent this in. We will provide details at a later date regarding transportation.

Regards

Victor Verrecchia

Then on 5/18:

David

The lathe is currently in production so allow 4 weeks for completion then shipping time.

Regards

Linda

Then on 7/14:

Dear David

Your VL100 lathe is almost completed and should be ready to send early next week.

Regards

Linda Morton

For and On Behalf of

Vicmarc Machinery Pty Ltd

52 Grice St

Clontarf QLD 4019

Australia

Ph: +61 7 3284 3103

Fax: + 61 7 3283 4656

Email: vicmarc@vicmarc.com

website: www.vicmarc.com

Then yesterday 7/26, they are not going to send it out.

Re: Vicmarc Trouble***

David Wheeler

>Doug,

Whenever the height limiter was incorrect on my Felder (Austria) shaper, at Felder's expense a tech was sent to my shop to correct the problem. No questions asked.

Whenever the fence on my Minimax was not true, Minimax sent a replacement at their expense the next day. No questions asked. Whenever the starter failed, I had a replacment the next day.

Just check the yahoo forum groups for Felder and Minimax and you will get a feel for customer service... that was a huge reason I purchased from those companies. And I've never been left dangling.

What Vicmarc doesn't know is that I would have inevitably been upgrading my VL100 to a bigger lathe.

I really don't want to bring my dealer into the discussion because he is known and well respected on these forums. And I did work with him to resolve this, but when Vicmarc interceded to fix the problem, I just remained patient. I was quiet about this because I did not WANT Vicmarc to receive any BAD press whatsoever; especially since they were addressing the problem.

(Believe me, my dealer has sought to remedy the problem with Vicmarc; and ultimately he will probably have to incur some expense to fix it (because he is a good dealer); but this is not the kind of policies that make for a successful company.)

I went way beyond the norm, IMHO, to see that Vicmarc did not receive a single negative from me. When I discussed my problem with others they thought I should be screaming from the roof tops. But this wasn't going to be a one time purchase, so I didn't and don't want to cause them problems...

If I were a loose canon, stalking the boards to make waves, maybe they could feel justified for writing me off; but I'm not; I'm a woodworker that has spent a lot of time and money for what I do... they ought to respect that as much as I have guarded what I have said about them.

Disclaimer:

I am not a knowledgeable woodturner. I've been doing woodworking since 1977, a lot of hand tool work; but now I mix in some very nice machines. I've always wanted a lathe to turn my own knobs and such; but never wanted to invest the time to do it. At the end of the day I decided to bite the bullet; get a small lathe; and turn. My friends jabbed me, saying that once you start turning all your stuff will gather dust!

As to the lathe:

1. First noticed problem was excessive heat in the head stock. Can't be good. All the obvious things were addressed over a few weeks. But after turning for 10 minutes the head stock would all but burn your hand.

2. I was told to continue to use the lathe; then the vibration got worse and the lathe could be stopped with mild pressure.

3. Then a chirping noise could be heard from the head stock.

I haven't used the lathe since April when I "knew" it was being taken care of. So as I write this I plugged it in to re-aquaint myself with the issues and the VFD wouldn't even power the lathe fully. It stops with a hum noise.

Re: Vicmarc Trouble***

David Wheeler

>Doug,

Thanks for the follow up. I answered your first response before I saw this one.

Let me reiterate, since my issues were being handled by Vicmarc and my dealer, and because I thought they were a quality company, other than some private emails to those who could help me, I kept Vicmarc out of the public forums.

Just imagine how positive all this could have been for Vicmarc... to say nothing for me about having a lathe I could be happily using for my small projects; if they had only suppported their product. I can't tell you how much I hate reporting this about a company.

I really appreciate you help and interest.

-David

Re: Don't despair!...>>

David Wheeler

>Ron,

Thanks for the support. Believe me, my dealer is a good guy; and he and I are both unecessarily twisting in the wind. I bought a Vicmarc for exactly the reasons that Doug and you mention in your responses.

Unless I do get sucked into the euphoria of turning, it will always be a minor part of my woodworking; and I'm sure I could have gotten on fine with a lessor machine; but that is not my way. Hopefully this can have a happy ending.

Thanks,

David

Re: Vicmarc Trouble***

Binen Eastern Ia

>Thank you for posting this problem you are having. I am sorry for you being jerked around. I watch very close the comments posted here about good companies and bad. There are those few companies that always go way beyond for customer service. If they sell what I want they get my money first. I do pay more to companies that offer service. There are also a great number of companies that give good fair customer service. It is always a pleasure to deal with these. Then there are others that give fair to spotty service a toss of the dice dealing with these.

Regardless of the outcome with your problem Vicmarc will always have a strike against them when I consider a purchase. Customer service that only responds after being forced to really is not customer service. It does sound like the dealer you have is worth keeping.

Binen

Re: Vicmarc Trouble***

RonZ

>If the dealer is who you posted below, there is no reason at all they should not have replaced it for you and let them bang their heads with Vicmarc.

You don't need to be knowledgable with this lathe. When I was in computers it was plug and pray. This lathe should be plug and play out of the box. I got one of these for a customer and at a certain speed it would shut off. After I diagnosed that it was a swicth damaged in transit, it was sent to me and arrived about a week later and the customer was up and running.

I really think that your problem here is the spindle and bearings in the head. It could be all that is needed to replaced but it really should be checked to see that the play didn't damage the seating area.

I find it extremely silly that you have a letter from the owner acknowledging replacement and they go aheaed and cancel. Perhaps they mixed you up with someone else.

Re: Vicmarc Trouble***

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>"Due to the problems you are experiencing we would like to offer a replacement lathe. Please advise details of the VL100 you have - model, spindle thread size. We will make a replacement lathe and ship it to you."

For me, this is the crux of the issue. Irrespective of how the situation should best have been handled, and irrespective of what the actual problems are/were, Vicmark made an unqualified commitment to provide a replacement lathe and ship it, and continued to give reason for David to believe they were going to honor that commitment for two months. Under such circumstances, it is inexcusable IMO to reneg on the commitment, even if they since believe he took a sledge hammer to it.

Perhaps Vicmark should have referred David to his dealer, initially, but they didn't.

Perhaps Vicmark should have more carefully reviewed the nature of the problems David was reporting, but they didn't.

Perhaps they should have somehow qualified and restricted their commitment to replace the entire lathe, but the didn't.

Instead they made a direct statement they would replace the lathe, but by David's report, they haven't.

David, the only thing that would have helped me more fully understand this issue, and make me more comfortable in this condemnation of Vicmark's actions, is if you would have included their own words in the email of refusal, as well as their earlier emails.

One More Thing...

David Wheeler

>The following are my my latest emails to Vicmarc; I just don't want you to think I'm a trouble maker looking to vent.

________________

7/26/04

Hi Linda,

Just as a follow up. I hope the lathe is on its way.

I just wanted to let you know that the primary reason I canceled the order for a Jet lathe and purchased the Vicmarc was due to the Woodcentral user group. I posted a message to get some feed back about which lathe I should get; and the Vicmarc was highly recommended.

I have already posted a positive message about how my situation is being handled and will follow up with more feedback when everything is completed.

I also have purchased Felder and Minimax equipment for my shop primarily due to online support groups and good customer support from the companies. In the same light I have avoided companies like Laguna and Knapp for the same reason; it is almost universally understood that those two companies are not seen in the same positive light as Felder and Minimax.

At any rate, I look forward to having a lathe that works well, and will post my comments publicly when I can.

Thank you,

David Wheeler

My receiving address is:

Wyanet Woodworking

David Wheeler

226 West River Street

Dixon, IL 61021

and:

Linda,

I paid over $1000 for a new lathe over a year ago; and have been waiting for nearly 4 months for a replacement lathe that you promised you would send out. This is not the right way to handle this matter. I am appealing to you to do the right thing and send me the lathe. A customer should not be saddled with this kind of service; to say nothing of the $$$ for shipping your defective product around.

Please do the right thing and send the lathe to me as you promised.

Sincerely,

David Wheeler

__________

End of emial copies.

Do you think I'm unreasonable? The lathe probably hasn't got 10 hours on it from my shop. Because I was adding on to my shop, I was able to be patient, since I couldn't use it during that time anyway. Maybe that was my error in not pressing them sooner.

-David

Re: Vicmarc Trouble***

David Wheeler

>Lyn,

I will do that but leave out the dealers name. Here it is:

____________

Dear David

Victor Verrecchia, Owner/Managing Director of Vicmarc Machinery Pty Ltd, attended the AAW Symposium last weekend and whilst there had a meeting with XXXXX. Your situation was discussed and It was decided that XXXXX will be fixing your lathe at his workshop.

Please contact XXXXX directly regarding this matter.

Regards

Linda

For and On behalf of

Vicmarc Machinery Pty Ltd

________

My dealer would have addressed the problem much earlier on; but because Vicmarc was handling it, he stepped aside. When I reported to him of the time delay he interceded for me. As it was reported to me, that was not a "happy" meeting he had with Vicmarc. I don't want to go into all the details since some of it doesn't pertain to my situation, but the long and short of it is that Vicmarc simply wants to wash their hands of the whole deal.

Given that Vicmarc was going to address the issue, I think my dealer did the right thing. Now, as it stands, the shipping alone to and from will cost a 1/3 of the intial cost; to say nothing of whatever repairs need to be made. I don't know what to say... just a bad deal, I guess.

Since I am the seller....

TDaniel

>I feel obligated to make this situation right...whatever it takes. I can assure David that he will not be left hanging. First let me say that what has happened is I forwarded David's email to Vicmarc for their help in diagnosing the problem with his lathe. Instead of Vicmarc sending me the info so that I could forward it, or sending David the info direct and copying me as to what they were doing, I was left totally out of the communications. I assumed that Vicmarc was handling the situation properly. I maintained contact with David and had him send copies of emails so that I could know what was being done. I thought it was great when they decided to send him a new lathe. Then I was very dissappointed when they changed their mind. I can and will repair this lathe as necessary. Unfortunately, now that they have promised him a new lathe I do not think a repair job will now be adequate. The bottom line to Vics problem is their crating. The lathes are good but the packing is terrible. Every lathe that I have received from them has had some scratches or more severe damage. Unfortunately, they do not re-imburse me for correcting these problems. If Vic wants to be considered a quality lathe they must realize that it starts with customer service and good packing and good communication with their agents. If they can't correct these problems they will have to compete pricewise with the chinese imports.

TD

Re: Since I am the seller....

RevDoug

>I guess that is part of the reason that you've backed off Vic for now?

Turn 'em round,

RevDoug

Re: Since I am the seller....

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>I think most of us recognized you were the seller, so I'm very happy you decided to post on this, and I am sure we all know you would (and have) acted honorably in the matter.

As I see it, as I expressed earlier in this thread, the issue is solely of Vicmark's making. Wisely or not, they committed to doing something, left a customer to wait several months based on that commitment, and as of this time have unilaterally violated their commitment.

It is hard to imagine why anyone in a company would find going back on a commitment to be acceptable under any circumstances, and particularly when the overall cost of this one lathe is rather small in the general scheme of their business. If it should costs them one sale of a 300 (and quite likely it will cost them much more), their change in decision will be a fiscal loss for them. Even if they now correct it, it has besmirched their previously pristine reputation. If they don't correct it, it will take on a much larger importance, and rather lastingly effect their credibility amongs many who frequent the woodturning newsgroups.

It seems to me that the best response from Vicmark at this point is to immediately arrange for a lathe to arrive into David's possession, include with it some other object of moderate worth to recognize the unnecessary grief and hassle they have caused him (not to mention the inordinate time he has spent waiting for a resolution), to both privately and publicly acknowledge that they didn't handle this situation well, that is doesn't represent their usual attitudes towards customers (and dealers) and that they intend to consistently do better in the future.

I can say with some degree of authority that such an approach will make them money, rather than cost them, in both the short and long run. It's really quite a shame such an issue should ever arise.

Please do post Vicmarc' srufusal in full so ..>>

RonZ

>...>> can get a full picture.

Re: Sic'em, Terry!

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In Jersey

>Keep them honest or you get hung out to dry. But

If Vic is embarking on a new plan to hang their dealers along with their customers, they've set themselves on a fast track to having neither. JET has built a tremendous business with "Taiwaneez Iron" based upon pro-active quality control coupled with outstanding customer service.

Everyone in the world wants to sell into the US Market because of the high prices. Those who seek the money but decline to give the service and support that American customers rightly demand for that high dollar find themselves bypassed by "lesser lights" or those who simply understand and implement the basic principal that service and support are required parts of a quality product.

Here's hoping you get it resolved, Terry

Mark

-2=mail

How an different manufacturer handled a problem.

Russ Fairfield

>I had the motor shaft on my Oneway 2436 break on a Saturday afternoon about 2 months ago. This was a lathe that was almost 5 years old, and well past any warrantee. I was expecting to buy a new motor.

Monday was a holiday in Canada, so I called Oneway the 1st thing on Tuesday morning. Their response was, "This shouldn't have happened. We are sending you a new motor. Is the address in our files correct?"

The new motor arrived that Friday afternoon, fully wired, and with a new drive pulley attached. It took less than 1/2 hour to put it in the lathe. My cost was NOTHING.

That is good service!!

Re: Since I am the seller....

RonZ

>Hi Terry,

I never asumed it was you. Well at least David bought it from the right guy and you were 100% right to hold out when Victor said he'd replace it.

I have been satisfied with their packing but it woouldn't have hurt to have it come in a full wooden crate vs. a skelton.

This thread has been fowarded to them and I'm curious to see the outcome before my next order.

All the best,

Ron

Re: Since I am the seller....

Fog Tanner

>I too have a new Vicamrc, the VL300, which arrived with some damage due to their crating. The top half of the carting was destroyed by the time it arrived in LA, the pad was so badly damaged that a new one had to be constructed before the frieght company would accept shipment. When I unwrapped the machine, there were a number of scratches and some broken switches, the worst being the main power switch.

I contacted the dealer in Texas I bought it from and he sent an e-mail off to Vic for the replacement parts. He received a prompt reply and a he gave me a tenative arrival date. A couple of weeks later, still no parts, and he sent another e-mail to Vic. They said that the original e-mail was a quote and they were waiting on authorization from him. He was rather outraged in his e-mail requesting they send the parts now. I received an e-mail saying the parts were on their way and he would call as soon as they came in.

Within a week I had my parts and put them in over the 4th. In the course of this little problem, I found that the general manager at Vic had been given alternate employment opportunities at an institution of his choice excluding Vicmarc. It appears that he placed into procedure a number of policies that have adversly affected Vicmarc, its dealers, and ultimately it customers. Even though the former GM is gone, his policies are still living on and will take some time to get replaced.

If I had it to do over again knowing all the issues, I would have still bought the Vicmarc 300. After using it, I still beleive it is the best you can buy. If I could not buy the Vic I would have to buy a General or build my own. The day you see Richard Raffan or Stuart Batty turning on a Oneway is the day I would consider one. I still plan on buying a Vicmarc chuck as soon as I can find one for the same reason. I feel it is the best and I have two Strongholds. So my faith in Vicmarc is still very strong, Victor just has some issues to deal with in the export side of his business. Their stateside crating has some serious issues ( it basicly sucks beyond belief), and they need to return to the policies they had before the former GM came in.

One of the sad issues in the current society is the acceptance of the disposable item. This is being achived through the well stocked "customer service" departments. You buy a tool, which for the most part are consumer quality, that is cheaply made in a third or fourth world country by a disposable employee, that has a high probability of breaking or failing. The customer service department is quick to send another cheap part to replace the one that should never have broken to start with. They keep doing this (because they have 10,000 in the warehouse)until you get one that doesn't break. Instead of being upset about buying cheaply built items, people applauade the Customer Service Departments at Jet/Powermatic, Delta, Harbor Freight or whomever. But, you never hear anyone saying what a great customer service department Jerry Glaser has because they sent him a new gouge after the end fell off the original - twenty times. He doesn't have to, he sells you the good merchandise the first time...that's what we should be hearing about all the tool companies, but again almost everyone has been conditioned to a disposable world.

Re: How an different manufacturer handled a proble

Binen Eastern Ia

>While I am not currently in the market for a new lathe. Posts like this go a long way helping me decide where my dollars go when I decide to buy.

Binen

Re: How an different manufacturer handled a proble

David Wheeler

>Russ,

Wow! That kind of customer service will go a long way to selling the product. It is hard to put a value on that.

My down time here has been extreme; but if Vicmarc had followed through in replacing it or at least repaired it in a timely fashion, at least one could praise the effort. But to drag it out for weeks and weeks and then abruptly cut me off, like I had done something wrong... unbelievable.

When I originally bought from Terry, I knew that the day would probably come when I would "trade up". But Terry was convinced that when I had used the VL100, that I would never give it up. He and others couldn't have praised it more. And everyone I spoke with praised Terry; even his competitors!

-David

Re: Since I am the seller....

Arch

>I'm more sad than mad, but I didn't suffer David's experience. I've been a pleased and proud owner of a VL100 since they came on the market as real lathes, just small. I had assumed that such a quality machine would be made and sold by quality people. This was part of of the pleasure and pride of owning what has been termed the 'little jewel'. I still believe that the lathe, its makers and retail sellers are first rate, and that is the sad part. I hope that potential buyers won't be turned off and sellers hurt by our discussions re David's experience. Yet a message should be sent, loud and clear,to Vicmarc.

Many fine firms and professional offices are at the mercy of inept (to be charitable) receptionists, swichboard ops and customer services. I know the problem, first hand. I don't know the solution. Possibly every Vicmarc owner should email their disaproval of Vicmarc's policies, not their products? Arch