second half blind dovetail

Re: second half blind dovetail

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Re: second half blind dovetail

Good job defending the scribe line—not easy in redwood.   W

Re: second half blind dovetail

Wiley, It took a minute to sink in, but I really like the way you put it:  "defend the scribe line". This is the way I will always think about it; it's very descriptive. And the more I think about it, it would appear that the only hard part is this "defense". Once you extend the kerf, the rest is fairly simple -- or so it now appears to me after a few trials.

Re: second half blind dovetail

When you knife a baseline (dovetail, tenon, etc.), you're forming the part of the joint that will be seen.

It takes only a small bruising of this line, the arris vanishes to nothing, to make it wavy (or worse) and show as a fault.  I see this all the time on photos of joints that people post on forums purporting to be more or less perfect.  Well, they're not.  Mine probably look the same or worse, but I don't offer them up as the goal for which one should strive, either. 

I think the old boys cut 'em and glued 'em.  The more you futz around just handling the workpiece the greater your chances of damage that will show.  The workpieces need to be clean and ready to be glued in place in whatever position they are to assume in the project or substructure of the project.  Don't let is sit around, moving it here and there.  Be ready to go.  You're also probably better off cutting the joint a little lean and perhaps having to fill a gap or two with a little "joiner" than you are cutting one rich and having to do a lot of trimming to get it to go together without splitting.  That kind of trimming almost always shows, up and down the joint, if you know what you're looking for. 

Once you're cutting them consistently well, try to avoid the temptation of featuring exposed dovetails on everything you make.  Move on to carving, veneering/inlaying or something else.

Re: second half blind dovetail

Your last paragraph interests me. To tell the truth, I don't like dovetails much. When I make boxes, I tend to miter the edges and go for grain matching. Unfortunately, I confess to being somewhat outer directed when it comes to woodworking; and, certainly for drawers, dovetailed edges seem to be the standard. And, I have to say, on this hand tool site, I believe there is a kind of dovetail culture. So I have been working on my dovetails. And I believe I'm getting a little better at it. But it's taking me forever. I'm nearly done with one of the cabinets, with dovetails for all the edges on three of the four drawers. I may very well switch to something less demanding for the rest of the five drawers. Roger suggested finger joints at the beginning, and I probably should have listened to him. I even have a shop made screw-type finger joint jig so that I can make whatever spacing I like.

Re: second half blind dovetail

Eliot.....if you'll call, I suggested finger joints for your case when you were considering using plywood.....now that you have been dovetailing your drawers, I think you should continue dovetailing the remaining drawers......consider how you will feel looking at these storage cases if you change their construction mid-stream......even if you only produce one drawer a week, you'll be done in early April.....not so far away.  

Re: second half blind dovetail

Yes, now I remember-- your suggestion was to cut finger joints for the case ( which I didn't do.) I used the combination rabbet/dado joint for the case. Derek calls it a drawer joint. And so far I have used dovetails for three of the four drawers. Today, I used finger joints on the back of the fourth drawer; but you're right: I may as well do dovetails for the front of these drawers where they will show. It's slow going for me.

Re: second half blind dovetail

Eliot, you are brave to be starting handcut dovetailing, let alone persevering with it. I don’t believe that there is “a dovetail culture” here on the Hand Tool Forum, but rather an emphasis on traditional joinery. Dovetailing is just one such joint. Some, however, dislike seeing joinery in the work, and some take pride in it. My view - for dovetailing - is that it needs to compliment the design you have. I use dovetails for drawers and often (not always) for cases. Dovetails on boxes will disrupt the grain, and the decision to use them there must be considered. There is more to building (anything) than the ability to dovetail. I take care with dovetailing as I take care with any joinery or any build element.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: second half blind dovetail

Eliot.....don't become despondent.....you're actually doing well......the case joint you're using has worked.....you're getting better at dovetails with each drawer......you're already one of only two dozen people here who make things and show their work......I'm proud of you......Derek's proud of you.....heck, if Rob Cosman knew of your efforts, he'd be proud of you......keep going......

Re: second half blind dovetail

There's a dovetail culture.  At the mere mention of them, count on a deluge of photos though surprisingly not cut nearly as well as the posters would like to believe.

They're an exercise in somewhat precision sawing, though you can see by the wavy pin and tail arrises that most people cut them on a bit of a crush-to-fit basis.  One can run, but not hide, from those wavy arrises.  They're a dead giveaway to a rich joint that was hammered home and hammered hard.  The perfectly cut joint goes together with no gaps, and tapped home with the heel of a hand.  Nobody here is cutting them that well I can promise you.  If they do, it's only a small % of the time.

So, don't get down and don't let the supposed "experts" get you down.  They aren't as expert as they'd like you to think.

Re: second half blind dovetail

I very much appreciate the encouragement I have to admit that I sort of live for this woodworking. It's not just a hobby for me. My routine, each and every day, is to walk my dog, eat breakfast .. -- and get down to the shop. I know that I am not that great at flat work, but I do fairly well and I just love it! You would be surprised that my conversation with Claudia is often along the lines: " Roger said this, Derek said that; someone named Charlie has been giving me some critiques, etc, etc," And Claudia enjoys hearing what people say also. So thanks!

Re: second half blind dovetail

Know, too, that people have been known to disappear from a forum for days when after posting a photo of the outside of a dovetail joint one asks to see a photo of the inside joint line.  If you undercut too much, crush-to-fit, bishop the end grain, shower-down clamp pressure to close or force a corner square, etc. the joint can look pretty acceptable from the outside, but like total crap on the inside joint line.  The condition of the inside joint line tells you whether or not the joint is truly well-cut, and whether it will be durable in the very long run.

Re: second half blind dovetail

If you get a little frustrated, move back a notch and try a 10" tenon saw.  High-end boutique dovetail saws often have a very thin plate and this can twist enough in the cut (yes, even a cut that's only 3/4" or so long) to produce a gap.  A bigger saw with thicker plate might help you avoid this.  If the sawing is fine, and your only problem is gaps at the baseline or lap line, then you know the prescription for that:  more careful chiseling.  A chisel honed at a lower angle will also move backward less when pushed or malleted, though of course the edge is not as durable.