New Veritas low angle jack plane

Comments and questions......

First of all, the LV LAJ is a beautiful plane and I know how Eliot is feeling having gotten such a great tool......filling your shop with beautiful things is a source of joy just being able to go look at and use fine tools.......so good for you, Eliot!!

My questions are regarding the increasing of angles in plane blades to work difficult grain. In addition to what has been discussed, what about putting a back bevel on a BD blade and increasing the angle of attack > 45°?  And if we are increasing these angles well north of 60°, are we not moving into scraping mode?  If so, what about using scrapping planes?  There is very little talk about them.

Re: Comments and questions......

We have been using the double iron plane for over two and a half centuries. Once you learn to use a double iron plane, there is no reason to fool with high angles, back bevels, scraper planes,  toothing planes, and the like. The double iron plane is easier to push and leaves a finer surface. 

Re: Comments and questions......

Roger, I largely agree with Warren. 

Firstly, high backbevels (e.g. creating a 60-degree cutting angle) in Bailey-design planes are, in my experience, hard to push. This is a combination of high cutting angle and high centre of effort.  It gets worse at the blade gets wider. You can only take very light shavings. The same may be said for Bailey-style planes, such as LN, with high angle frogs. I once had a LN #4 1/2 and #3 sitting on a shelf for 3 or 4 years, unused, as they sported 55-degree frogs. This was pre-2012 and understanding chipbreaker use. Later I swapped out the frogs for 45-degree (common angle), learned to set the chipbreaker, and the world changed.

High cutting angles progressively do move in the direction of a scraping cut. This has restrictions (will not work terribly well on soft woods), but can be great on hard woods. The LA Jack, along with other BU planes, were my go to for interlocked Australan hardwoods before the chipbreaker was in use. There are high angle BD planes, such as the HNT Gordon range (55- and 60-degree beds), and they can be sublime. Don't anyone tell you this is not possible. I have them and use them. The fact is that high cutting angles work well in planes with lower centres of effort, such as the BU range. This applies to the HNT Gordons as well as they also have a low centre, along with a being pushed from low down.

One criticism of high cutting angle is that they do not leave as clear a surface as a low cutting angle. This is largely true (I have a Veritas Custom #4, and the bed is 42 degrees. It can only be used with the chipbreaker closed up, but it performs beautifully). This is more difficult to determine on some hardwoods, and generally not evident if a film finish is applied.

And, just because the chipbreaker excels in controlling tearout (in all directions) does not suddenly invalidate the BU/high cutting angle. They worked before and this situation has not altered. Also, not all wood is interlocked and susceptible to tearout. I routinely set the chipbreaker, but do so because I can. It takes little extra effort, and consider it foresight. 

My concern is that many new woodworkers do not understand about cutting angles, and may set one up inappropriately ... and then say they are no good when the wood tears. There is a couple of prominent woodworking teachers who do this, and are not open to advice.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Noooooo

"However, I think that the BU plane is wasted if this is what you are after. It is best used with the shaving thickness usually reserved for smoothers and jointers."

OK. You said what I said but with different words.

I never said the BU blade couldn't be cambered, only that I didn't find the tool appropriate for rough work. Of course you can camber the blade and take heavy cuts but I don't think maintaining the BU blade is worth the extra effort when the non bevel side wears.

Re: Noooooo

Charlesworth also likes that Japanese contraption that creates a hollow in the stone. It's sort -of a jig. so I guess it's not your favorite either. As you say, you prefer free hand.

But I'm still not clear in just exactly how one goes about free-handing the camber for a BU blade.

Sharpening a BU plane blade

But I'm still not clear in just exactly how one goes about free-handing the camber for a BU blade.

Eliot, sharpening a BU blade with a guide is no different from sharpening a BD blade with a guide. To create a camber, one still needs to lean on the corners. David Charlesworth strategy remains the gold standard: wire across the full length when flat, extra pressure (count the strokes) a third in, and then extra strokes at the sides. I do this on the coarse stone (1000 grit).

The only difference lies when sharpening for a high cutting angle. Start with a 25 degree primary bevel, then set the guide to hone at (say) 50 degrees, and hone across the bevel. Now add the camber as above. This should be as easy as honing a BD plane blade. Next move on to the other polishing stones. 

Don’t forget to polish the back of the blade, and only use the final polishing stone.

I may “charge” a dulling BU blade by polishing the back. This is easier if you do not use a Ruler Trick.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Sharpening a BU plane blade

Derek, you know that I tend to hang on your every word, but I am really confused. What you describe in this post IS what I did, following the instruction that Lee Valley sent me in their email message. But, then, you wrote."Nooooo" -- that it was bad advice. And, moreover, the Lee Valley instructions are exactly what David Charlesworth shows in his videos, and you say that it's the gold standard. So how is the Lee Valley bad advice? Apparently, I didn't in any way spoil the blade. but exactly what did I do that wasn't "de rigueur"?

Confused camper.

Re: Sharpening a BU plane blade

Eliot, did the original blade arrive with a 25 degree bevel? If so, this is too low for planing face grain. You would need to increase the bevel angle. That is what I wrote.

Also, did you purchase a blade with a higher bevel from Lee Valley. If so, that will create extra effort if you attempt to camber it on the full face. Only use planes with a 25 degree bevel to add a high angle secondary bevel. That is also what I wrote about.

If I am confusing you still, please take a break and later re-read what I wrote. 

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Sharpening a BU plane blade

Yes, the blade that came with the LAJ has a 25 degree bevel.

At your suggestion, I ordered another blade. also with a 25 degree bevel. ( You advocated against getting a high bevel iron.) It hasn't arrived yet.

I sharpened the one I have by adding a secondary bevel a few degrees higher. That;s the sharpening, on that secondary bevel, where I followed Lee Valley's instructions for cambering.

I assume that I must add a good deal more of a secondary bevel for the next blade so that I can plane difficult wood at high angles.

I will certainly re-read what you have written. I'm especially interested in what your mathematician friend had to say. Perhaps I'll work out the math for myself so that I can develop a deeper understanding. Trigonometry.

Sharpening a BU plane blade

But I'm still not clear in just exactly how one goes about free-handing the camber for a BU blade.

Eliot, sharpening a BU blade with a guide is no different from sharpening a BD blade with a guide. To create a camber, one still needs to lean on the corners. David Charlesworth strategy remains the gold standard: wire across the full length when flat, extra pressure (count the strokes) a third in, and then extra strokes at the sides. I do this on the coarse stone (1000 grit).

The only difference lies when sharpening for a high cutting angle. Start with a 25 degree primary bevel, then set the guide to hone at (say) 50 degrees, and hone across the bevel. Now add the camber as above. This should be as easy as honing a BD plane blade. Next move on to the other polishing stones. 

Don’t forget to polish the back of the blade, and only use the final polishing stone.

I may “charge” a dulling BU blade by polishing the back. This is easier if you do not use a Ruler Trick.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Congrats!

> Then you have totally missed the point of a plane with a chip breaker/cap iron/double iron.

How so and what exactly am I missing? Have you forgotten that that piece that regulates a mouth width is actually slides? If it wears like you describe (something I really doubt is going to happen, or by this day all the #4's would have gaping holes where a mouth was once), it's a matter of a few swipes on a medium or fine stone to get back where it was.