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kanna

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kanna

#1

kanna

eliot feldman



Does anyone read Japanese on this site? About 10 years ago I made a kanna from scratch -- the larger one in the photo. It works beautifully. I also bought one from someone (whom I can't remember) on this site. He told me it was made by a master and would sell it to me well below what it would usually be worth because it had a twist in it. So he was honest about it and, his being from this site, I trusted him to not cheat me (too much!) because it still wasn't all that cheap. Anyway, it's been this long since I really started to work on it, and I just finished. It came in the box shown in the photo. I am interested in what it says on the box. It did indeed have a significant twist, which I planned out and then sanded flat on 120 grit sandpaper glued to a length of plate glass. I sharpened the blade, but it wouldn't go all the way in properly. So I spent a fair amount of time removing tinny bits of wood from the bed using the end of a file onto which I brought up a burr -- sort of the way you do on a card scrapper. You have to use carbon marking to see just where to scrape away material. It now works about the same as the one I made. I was hopping that it would be even better -- because it's supposed to have been made by a master. Any thoughts about what I might try next with it, especially based on any clues based on what it says on the box?

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#2

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roger lance

Eliot.....I only know a little Vietnamese: but, I think it says only sell this to a Westerner.

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#3

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eliot feldman

That's exactly what I was afraid of!!!

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#4

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Steve D, CT

Lucky Gaijin Formosa Plane Company.

Made in China

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#5

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eliot feldman

Looks like everybody's having me on today!

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#6

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Jack Dover

I don't read kanji, but my guess is it's either a maker's name or a short motto, sometimes a maker does calligraphy himself and puts a short verse or something like that. The sticker at the bottom is probably a vendor's note, might be a plane type or steel type, e.g. "smoothing plane" or "white steel".

Don't assume that just because the second plane is from a good maker it's going to perform better out of the box. A good maker only means lots of potential, but it's totally up to you to make it perform. Kannas are as good as you set them up.

Kanna setup is an iterative process, or at least it is for beginners or autodidacts. Re-check everything and you will most probably discover it's not where you have left it. See whether you can sharpen it better, maybe a mouth could be tightened? They're sensitive tools, I remember resetting mine a few times a day.

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#7

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Eliot

You’re so right. It certainly didn’t work out of the box. I had to carefully, as I said , shave wood from the bed using carbon marking and the sharpened file to get the iron to fit properly. So now I have two good kanna planes — four if you count the Krenov planes I made. I still would like to know just what’s written on the box. Thanks for a real response!

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#8

Re: kanna, shoulda, coulda

TomD

What kind of performance are you looking for? Generally comments like yours refer to finer shavings. If so what are you getting? Or is it a mater of edge retention.

The first or second Japanese plane I made back in the early 80s, was made from a cheap scraper blade (I couldn't get that one to work as a scraper, my fault). I put it loosely in a white oak body, and it took shavings about 4 tens, which I politely got called a liar for here, decades later. Nobody seemed to think it was possible. It was not a good plane, nor was it well made, it required significant shims to make it work. I still have it. Now everyone gets those numbers, it seems, and a lot of planes come from the box ready to perform.

I don't know what thickness of shaving people are getting today, with all the info and relationships with suppliers we never had back then. But I can't really imagine what the practicality would be if they got planes that would take 2 tens.

What I am getting at is if some simple fundamentals are correct, even a cheap piece of junk will turn out great work. You obviously got your fundamentals right in the first plane.

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The one thing in your description that stood out is the twisted sole. If you had to remove so much material from the sole that you couldn't get the plane blade to seat properly, that can make it difficult to get a blade that seats reliably, but that would be too obvious. Sounds like you are too experienced to fall for that. I struggled with that a lot in various situation, because either I tried to rough too near to final fit; I didn't initially set the blade hard enough; or I was dealing with planes that I had worn out and needed to resole.

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For planes designed to take a fine shaving, but mysteriously it is not happening, the main pitfalls are:

- blade not sharp enough or edge misshapen. These are pretty mechanical issues if one is using (or checking) with a guide;

- Bottom not flat enough. The glass and sandpaper trick is a "cheat", but very effective. That is how I do it.

- Wave shape is not right, this does not have to be pretty, I have blown out everything between two contact patches with a power router. It was a test, it worked fine. Subtly scraped surfaces are nice, just so long as you get the relief. Also be sure to relieve the outfeed, unless it is a jointer plane. At least that is what I do with smoothing planes. Also the relief should start from the mouth, no support to the cut past the mouth.

- All the sole factors above got knocked out of true when you drove the blade in.

- Set the plane up without the sub-blade. See how that goes. You can change settings/tolerances with the sub-blade. Or you can drive it over the end of the blade. With clean wood the sub-blade isn't doing much, particularly when the shavings are so fine they don't generate tear-out. You know those shaving that look like a pile of dust, but when pulled out there are a complete shaving, they don't have the structure to chip out the surface.

- It might just be the photo, but the planes look kinda long. Extra length makes it harder to get the set-up on a polishing plane just right.

All that stuff is pretty obvious, it really just comes down to well known factors involved in a kind of blueprinting. So you probably know all that stuff, given all the sources out there. As with most things, the fundamentals are the key.

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#9

Re: kanna, shoulda, coulda

eliot feldman

Your reply is long and covers a lot. I have made only one kanna from scratch. I felt like I was making another one when adjusting the bed on the one, supposedly made by a master, that I bought. I did it very carefully, as I said using graphite and the sharpened end of a file. The plane works well now. I'm very far from an experienced kanna maker. I feel pretty good about having made one at all! When Pan Neidermyer was on this site and helping me out, years ago, I asked her who on this site had made one. She seemed to think it was the two of us and perhaps only a few others. Apparently you were one of them. I believe the one I made is my best plane, with the possible exception of my new Veritas DX60 block plane that Derek talked me into. I am amazed by those competitors at the kanna hand plane events held in Japan. It's clearly not necessary to get such thin shavings for "normal" woodwork, but I"m drawn to this kind of thing. I am also impressed by Paul Sellers video where he gets a good shaving when pulling his NO 4 across a board on a string! Again clearly not necessary. I am going to re-read your post because it has so much in it.

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#10

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Phil Cyr

I'm not an expert at Japanese, but I'm pretty good at Googling. This plane appears to be a Tsunesaburo Doshōbone "土性骨" with a 60mm wide blade made of blue paper steel #1. You can find pictures matching your box if you search "常三郎 土性骨".

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#11

how did you do that?

Howard Pollack

Phil, how did you manage to google that? How did you translate (if that is the word) from the Japanese script on the box to something you could google? I'd really appreciate knowing that. Thanks. -Howard

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#12

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eliot feldman

I just saw your reply. I'm impressed that you found it, thanks! Do you know anything about this maker, the steel, etc.?

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#13

Re: how did you do that?

Phil Cyr

I do know some Japanese and Chinese, but my reading and writing is very poor. I started with google translate and was able to get the first character from the box, but the other two were too small and stylized for me to input. At this point I have one character, not too much:土

I searched google for: "土 60mm" and got a bunch of 60 mm fence post soil stakes. Makes sense, "土" means soil. Back to google translate.... this time in English to Japanese, I need to find some more characters for woodworking topics. I translated "woodworking plan" and got "木工鉋", the last character of which is the "plane" part.

I searched google again: "土 60mm 鉋" and success! The first image entry is a TaoBao listing showing the exact same box. I went there and grabbed the title: "日本进口常三郎土性骨拉刨青纸钢寸四60mm木工刨子平刨硬木净刨". Ouch a lot of characters, back to google translate. I know that this is a Chinese listing, but I only care about the name which should have the same characters in Japanese. I threw it into google translate Japanese to English and got a bunch of garbage including a recognizable Japanese plane maker: Tsunezaburo.

That is an outline of my basic process. I have been able to find things like the original Yahoo auction for a plane I bought in the states, sites showing the product listings, etc. Most recently I found a genno head I wanted and then purchased it from a Japanese vendor.


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#14

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Phil Cyr

I don't know a whole lot. I recently bought one of their planes. My understanding is that they are the plane maker that has most embraced doing things to increase production and reduce cost. For example, on the plane I recently purchased the chip breaker is laminated, but the lamination line is completely perfect and covers the entire face - the secondary blade is obviously made of machine laminated stock.

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#15

Re: how did you do that?

eliot feldman

Really impressive!

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#16

Re: how did you do that?

Howard Pollack

Thank you. -Howard

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