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Question on strike buttons

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Re: Question on strike buttons

#26

Re: what again is sorb?

Jerome

Commonly found Cormier stock is 2 feet - 50cm wide. It’s usually from individuals growing in forests as opposed to decorative and isolated individuals. The “corme” fruit is nothing looked after and was mostly consumed in alcohol. No surprise.

That being said, I have a few sources, one of them having a website, in eastern France (actually the birth place of Charles de Gaulle, you could not have it more French than that): http://www.bois52-3apl.fr/

It’s a family business, ran by a guy that has done it all regarding wood and forests. I am not sure Cormier is part of the small pieces business they publish, but there is a lot in storage if some are interested. I can help if you need to get in touch and language is an issue.

Re: Question on strike buttons

#27

Rafael from PA

Re: Question on strike buttons

Rafael from PA

The try plane button is 7/8" diameter, protrudes about 3/16". A jack plane on my bench has a 3/4" button, protrudes 1/16".


Re: Question on strike buttons

#28

Re: Question on strike buttons

Steve Voigt

Thanks for the data points. Large strike buttons seem to be a modern thing…old ones seem to usually be under a square inch, or less than an inch in diameter.

Re: Question on strike buttons

#29

Re: ahhh...cormier...

David Weaver

Beech seems to occupy the space in europe that red oak does in the US, or sometimes some maple. That is, when I looked up lumber prices, if you're looking for a plain or utility hardwood to make anything inexpensively, it's available everywhere and inexpensive.

Red oak can sometimes be found here locally for $1 a board foot, and even if purchased through a local sawyer QS in wide boards, it's not that expensive (there's no really organized market for american beech here, I guess because other woods are cheaper and more widely available - most beech is burned or perhaps used for things like railroad ties).

From an aesthetic standpoint, I have a bias - american beech is pretty - often pinkish in color and doesn't have as common looking of brown flecking that euro beech does (And euro beech is probably a great wood for planes, but looks cheap because it's just all over the place). Since it's an old forest tree and most of this country has been stripped of wood at least once for railroad fuel or industry, there's less beech than there would've been long ago (the oaks seem to grow first and they grow large quickly in open space). As much as I thought they would be locally unfound, I've actually found them in pretty large numbers on township land here. When they get to 3-4 feet in diameter, for one reason or another, they seem to die, fall over and go to waste.

Large fruit trees here (The kind that you'd need to make larger disston handles in number) are long gone. Domestic apple here air dried is perhaps the nicest wood to work that I've ever worked, but it's a pain to dry and requires hands on attention at least once a day for the first week or two, gluing or sealing any cracks. Beech is kind of like that if it's wet and there's a weather change to dry or even if it's seasoned and there's an abrupt snap to below 0ºF temperatures.

Other than getting a few large pieces of QS apple (from someone who cut down an old wild tree), I've seen nothing of the sort since, and most commerical wood that's kiln dried either doesn't see the same, is small or is ugly.

As far as lifetime? I've got a pair of english mid 1800s beech planes and an american made plane from the early 1800s and all have a nice texture to them still (not rotted, not dry rotted and light weight, etc). The only shortcoming I can think of is that I'd like a wood more dense than beech for coffin smoothers, but that can be addressed just by finding large bowl blanks of denser woods. Right now, rosewood is relatively inexpensive and once in a while, I come across 3x4 blanks of it quartered on ebay (for guitar parts) for about the same price as I have to pay to get properly sawn beech (lumber is available flatsawn here for much less, but 16/4 billets sawn dead straight with no defects is not common).

It can be difficult to convince someone who comments from europe on YT that the sentiment is different here, but mostly, nothing is found with beech showing here unless it's something made in china with wood from europe.

Re: Question on strike buttons

#30

Rafael from PA

Re: Question on strike buttons

Rafael from PA

Curiously, of the few English made planes I have, a jack sized no-name Badger, no-name jack and a Mathieson try planes, none of them have a strike button. The two I mentioned above are American made.

Extra data points: a Sciotto Works jointer with a 7/8" button; a Sargent coffin smoother with a strike button on the heel.

Re: Question on strike buttons

#31

Re: what again is sorb?

Jack Dover

Yeah, I think I've mixed Sorbus domestica with some other specie. Apparently there are hundreds of them and wild growing ones seem to be somewhat available. I think trees that I've seen were Sorbus aucuparia - a small tree with small fruits, and they look like a shrub, maybe because they're trimmed all the time? The biggest tree had a small trunk and it was planted a few generations back, any other tree, like ash, oak or a beech would be much bigger I presume.

Re: Question on strike buttons

#32

Re: Striking button diameter

Jack Dover

I think that even a small diameter button would work. My planes that don't have a striking button have this particular texture at the point they were struck at. It's like failed plywood with plies separating, something to be expected - ash and oak splinters for basketmaking are made by pounding, no wonders growth rings are separating in a plane body. I think the primary role of a strike button is to prevent this. So as long as there a tightly seated button that can be reliably hit every time with a hammer - it's going to work. The height a button protrudes should just prevent it from mushrooming.

But you probably already know all this.

Re: Question on strike buttons

#33

is there tree magic?

David Weaver

I vaguely recall some of the same things being shown as tree or vine when doing brief browsing of woods. I have obscure wants (musical instrument parts, future chess pieces -moving slowly on that :\ , and tool parts, so a big shrub is often fine).

The biggest fruit tree woods I've ever seen are bits and bobs from europe (though I gather those are going away there commercially), but at hearne (so prohibitive - like $22 a board foot for a slab where you could conceivably find about 10-20% to resaw straight parts out of)...

...and from africa, but the africa fruit woods tend to be more dense and hard, and sometimes coarse.

(I was wrong about boxwood - it's not that difficult to find small logs, just not at a price I want to pay).

If there were large apple trees (neighbor has a big one, but I'm sure it'll be bug infested and damaged by the time it shows stress), I'd be all over them to try to split billets. The tree next door is perhaps 20" wide at chest height (which is prime bug area) and even at that, getting usable wood for planes out of it would probably be difficult.

If the (large) european fruit tree industry survives the economic dominance of pygmy trees, I'd be surprised. 22000 acres of orchards where I grew up, and I remember seeing the last big trees pushed over - it was a long time ago.

Re: Question on strike buttons

#34

Re: is there tree magic?

Steve Voigt

... a big shrub is often fine

One of my most prized planes is a little (1-1/4" iron) guy I made from a piece of boxwood that that a fellow woodworker pulled out of the town dump near Richmond VA. He said people just pull the boxwood shrubs out when they get too big…the quality is as good as any imported boxwood. I've never actually tried it myself but it might be a viable option for free, high quality wood. I don' have a truck, so doing stuff like that is kind of a problem.


Re: Question on strike buttons

#35

Re: Question on strike buttons

Oskar

Thanks John,

for smaller planes I like hitting the heel, but for larger ones its less effective, hence I like to try a strike button on the top this time.

Re: Question on strike buttons

#36

Re: Question on strike buttons

Oskar

Thank you Rafael!

Re: Question on strike buttons

#37

Re: Question on strike buttons

Oskar

Thanks for adding your thoughts Jerome!

Re: Question on strike buttons

#38

Re: Question on strike buttons

Oskar

Great answer Steve, thanks!

Don´t think my piece of lignum is thick enough to make an endgrain button, but it is hard as hell so i figure it does not matter. Its not like one hammers wildly anyway, more like tapping.

Re: Question on strike buttons

#39

Re: Razee

Warren in Lancaster, PA

In practice we only use a jointer plane for about a minute at a time, not eight hours a day. It is much more important to have a jack plane and a trying plane that are light and comfortable.

A beech trying plane will last a lifetime and gets much more use than a jointer.

Re: Question on strike buttons

#40

Re: Question on strike buttons

William Duffield

You can do what I did. I volunteered to do woodworking demonstrations at a festival at the Chesapeake Bay Maritime Museum in St. Michael's, MD and begged some gnarly scraps from their shipwrights. They are building a replica of the Maryland Dove, and all the structure of the hull is live oak.

This shows a very small part of what they needed for their ship.


All the wooden boat builders and restorers source their Quercus virginiana timber from one sawyer in Georgia. Here is a YouTube video of another restorer's adventure in obtaining their live oak. It has been a while since I watched the video, but I think there is enough contact information in the video to locate the saw mill. Note that the oak they supply is unseasoned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pH37Dep0cvU&t=993s

I'm planning to use most of mine for tool handles, but it is no where near straight grained, and therefore I don't expect it would be optimum for plane bodies.

Re: Question on strike buttons

#41

Re: Source for Live Oak Timber *LINK*

William Duffield

Steve Cross

Cross Saw Mill

1427 GA-45

Iron City, GA

229-774-2781

www.crosssawmill.com

I think this is the same supplier that David mentioned.

Re: Question on strike buttons

#42

Rafael from PA

Re: Source for Live Oak Timber

Rafael from PA

Unfortunately, that domain is no longer live.

Re: Question on strike buttons

#43

Re: Source for Live Oak Timber

William Duffield

Sorry for the wild goose chase. It looks like Steve Cross still has a presence on LinkedIn. The easiest might be to just give him a call.

Re: Question on strike buttons

#44

Re: southern suppliers...

William Duffield

If you stroll around in the woods in Appalachia, you can find lots of tall, straight, smooth red and white oaks, beech, hickory, poplar, etc. However, live oak doesn't grow that way. :( It is gnarly! :D You just don't find it with straight grain over long lengths.


Re: Question on strike buttons

#45

Re: An aside

Hank Knight

Southern live oak was an important commodity in the 18th and early 19th Centuries, before iron and steel became the materials of choice for maritime construction. The huge curved trunks and branches were extremely dense and rot resistant - perfect for ships' stems, knees and other curved parts. The U.S. Navy was very jealous and protective of live oaks and Congress enacted criminal penalties for people who cut live oaks on federal land without authorization.

See here:https://www.maritimeprofessional.com/blogs/post/live-oak-13806

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