Sharpening station finished....a little wonky

Re: Sharpening station finished....a little wonky

Moses Yoder

That is a beautiful piece of work, I'm sure generations will treasure it. I would caution against the distance bewteen the supports for the granite. Granite breaks very easily when laid flat, and if it were mine I would put another bumper between the center and outside. I assume the granite is lifted off the framework between the bumpers. I'm glad you got the granite, you will love it.

Re: Sharpening station finished....a little wonky

roger lance

Moses....I agree....when I go to move the table into its designated spot, I'll put some more pads down and beef up the support.

not to lay a guilt trip on your tools or anything

Bruce, a MN Galoot

but they should be darn proud being sharpened on a cabinet of that quality.

Really nice job, Roger!

Re: Sharpening station finished....a little wonky

wilbur

That's really nice! And I like the use of granite for the top.

Did you consider routing a groove around the perimeter of the granite slap to help corral water that spills onto the granite top? Sort of like the channel that you might find in a carving board.

Re: Sharpening station finished....a little wonky

Chuck Bjorgen

Your sharpening station is really nice and is something I hope to construct for my shop too. Don't want to pry too deeply into what you spent but can you offer a ballpark figure on what I could expect to spend on what might be a sink cutout chunk of granite? Mine will be a lot more basic than yours but I still like the idea of the granite surface.

I also appreciate the tip on the High Friction Grip Discs from LV. I'm constructing a stand for an air hose reel and I'm concerned this thing is still going to slide around when I'm unreeling the air hose. Those discs appear to be just the solution I need. Thanks for that tip.

Re: Sharpening station finished....a little wonky

roger lance

Chuck....you might be able to get a sink cut out for free....the fabricator I went to gathers his scrap and sells it to some company that tries to turn small pieces of granite into exterior walkway stones....so maybe for free or a few dollars....LV also sells this rubber material in sheets (see items 88K59.05 & 88K59.06) which may or may not serve your situation better....its a good product and I'll be making more use of it.

Re: Sharpening station finished....a little wonky

roger lance

Wilbur....I didn't consider that....I just thought I'd use it for awhile and see how the water mess goes....have a towel on stand-by....also, I think that I'll be getting the Shapton Pro stones which only require a "spritz" of water to get started (so they claim)....no extended pre-soaking....I know you have mentioned using those stones, so how messy are they??....do you recommend them??

Re: not to lay a guilt trip on your tools or anyth

roger lance

Bruce....Thank you!....you are most kind.

It would have a short life in my shop

Bill Tindall

It would soon be claimed and employed in the kitchen, if not by my wife by a daughter, its drawers filled with implements and its top a place to work dough. You had better spill some stain or oil on it or this fate could soon happen to you.

Re: It would have a short life in my shop

roger lance

I'm already getting conversation about building a new kitchen island (tho we do not need it) and I know that is only the first step....next will come the "need" to replace the entire set of kitchen cabinets....what have I done to myself???? .

Not so wonky ...

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

Roger, that is fabulous work. I'd say that it really would go better with my new bench than your old thing, but I don't wish to conflict you

Do you have running water in your shop? The Shaptons may not need to be soaked, but they still do need to be wet. Try and get hold of Harrelson Stanley's video on Side Sharpening in which he uses Shaptons (surprise!). I was amazed at the amount of water he uses. He was constantly pouring streams over them. He did contain all this in a trough, which you will need to do as well. My sharpening centre uses a kitchen trough (I have running water). My other recommendation is to add a little liquid detergent to the spritz bottle. This will lubricate the stones and prevent stiction. It also keep stones and hands clean.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Sharpening station finished....a little wonky *LINK*

Pam Niedermayer

You may want to reconsider that Shapton purchase, Roger. I was very disappointed with them, and ultimately, via a journey with natural stones, I'm currently using a Sigma Pro Ceramic 1-6-13k set from Stu Tierney. Derek will come along and advocate for the Shaptons.

Pam, who loves that sharpening station


Tools From Japan

Re: Sharpening station finished....a little wonky

wilbur

Here's a picture of the sharpening platform and small pond that I made to corral the water that I spray on my Shaptons.

This is just pine, glued together, with a heroic amount of silicone caulk at the seams. It looks a lot dirtier now.

The good thing is that there's enough waterstone sludge at the bottom of my pond that it is really watertight now.

I like the Shapton Professionals, although I use natural Japanese waterstones now. My usual sharpening set up is a Shapton Pro 1000 (or a Sigma Pro 1000), then an aoto (natural Japanese waterstone that's ~3000 grit or so), and then a fine natural Japanese waterstone that I estimate to be in the ~15000 grit range or so.

If you want to go with Shapton Professionals, I'd get the 1000/5000/15000 grits. Derek's right about the Harrelson Stanley videos: he does use a lot of water. I don't, and seem to get a really sharp edge with them.

Height?

GolfSteve in Calgary

Beautiful furniture, nice job on the construction.

The comment below is kind of late, and I'm sure you considered your sharpening method when designing your bench, but it seems awfully high for hand sharpening - especially if you do any freehand sharpening.

My sharpening bench (a piece of melamine nailed to the wall) is a tad lower than groin height so that I'm working right above the stones. I freehand sharpen almost exclusively.

Re: Height?

roger lance

36"....different strokes for different folks....see the discussion started on this forum on 2/8/12 entitled "Next project...a sharpening station"....the dimensions of the proposed station were given including a 36" height which was supported by a number of members here as a height that they were using in their sharpening....if it proves too high for me, I'll make some kind of platform to stand on....been hitting the little white ball yet this year??

Re: Not so wonky ...

roger lance

Derek....I'm afraid that I'll just have to make do with that ole rickety broke down bench of mine....I'm looking to install a laundry tub with running water next to where the sharpening station will sit....so that should be nice....tried to find some video on Harrelson Stanley but only found a youtube video on scissors sharpening....see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYU-9TofU1Y I'm going to finally put a finish on my bed....so I'll be busy with that for awhile.

Shaptons and Sigmas

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

Hi Pam

I've been using Shapton Pros for several years. They are excellent stones within their preferred range, which is HCS and A2. My kit consists of the 1000, 5000 and 12000. The 1000 is the best stone. It is almost equally at home with PM steels. The 5000 is the weakest of the bunch, and much of the time it feels like it is burnishing more than cutting. The 12000 is decent on HCS but just gets by on A2. If I were buying these again I might consider a 4000 in place of the 5000. The 5000 creates a good shine, but cuts slower than I think it should. It is quite likely that the performance of the 12000 is affected negatively by the 5000, giving it too much work to do. When working microbevels, it is quite practical to go directly to the 12K from the 1K.

I like that they are no-fuss stones and require very little maintenance. I use a diamond stone to keep them flat, which they do for a long time, and spritz with soapy water.

As of a few weeks ago, I have a second set of stones, specifically with the A2 and PM steels in mind: Sigma Series II 1200, 6000, 10000 and 13000. The 6000 and 10000 were purchased on Stu's recommendation. Stu agreed with my evaluation of the Pro Shapton 1000, so I had not planned to replace it, but he surprised me by including a new combination stone (1200/13000) in the package for me to test out. Bloody Aussie

School is still out on the new stones for me. What is your experience so far? Anyone else with experience with either Shaptons or Sigmas?

Sharpening Centre:

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Shaptons and Sigmas

roger lance

The water stones that I feel are in contention for my use are the Shapton Pro (not the Shapton glass stones), Stu's Sigma Power Ceramics, and to a lesser extent LV's Sigma Power II's....I'd love the conversation to turn to this topic with any and all comments, insights, experience welcome.

Re: Shaptons and Sigmas

Schtoo

LV's Sigma Power Select II?

I'll let you in on a little secret...

LV sell 3 Select II stones, the #1000, #3000 and #10000.

Fine Tools (and myself of course) in Germany sell the full range being #240, #400, #1000, #1200, #3000, #6000, #10000 and #13000, #1000/#6000 combo as well as the #1200/#13000 combo that Derek has.

(I don't do the #1200/#13000 combo. I don't think it's good value just yet.)

I'm just the clown who asked for the specs on the #400 and my diplomatic caning of the #1000 (which I did sitting where I am right now while facing the president of Sigma Power) forced the #1200 to be realized.

Of the Select II;

The #240 isn't bad but a bit soft.

The #400 is very good. Stays flat, works fairly hard. For flattening it stands alone with no competition at all. I won't call this one a true Select II since it's not sintered SiC.

The #1000 is great on very, very hard/tough steels, but dishes quickly and isn't really suitable for 'normal' steels. Abysmal with softer 'normal' steels as it dishes so significantly. For hard stuff,it's not too bad.

The #1200, I'm not 100% sure yet. Still. For tools, it has no equal.

The #3000 is nice, perhaps superfluous when the #1200 is possibly in the mix. A little too friable for my liking, but not too bad.

The #6000 is very good. Dish resistant, quite fast and works with everything. Works better on very hard/tough steels like PM and HSS than softer, stickier steels like O1, A2 and normal Japanese steels.

The #10000 is very good. Like the #6000 but a finer finish.

The #13000 is an older stone, not sintered SiC, and one of the best finishing stones out there, but quite expensive really. Has some adjustability if you want it, but just plain works too. It's a bit of a luxury, but very nice to have if you can manage it.

I won't tell you anything more, I just wanted to make sure you knew that LV make available only 3 of the Select II stones, when there are now 8 carrying that label, 2 of them only being born in the past 6 months or so.

That is all.

Stu.

(I won't tell you of today's escapades with a new chisel and a bunch of different stones. You wouldn't believe me if I told you what worked and what didn't...)

Re: Shaptons and Sigmas

david weaver

If you really like hard stones, especially if you like hard natural stones, or if you have a reason that you absolutely don't want to soak anything (or can't), buy the shapton pros.

If you're anyone else other than described above, you should probably buy the sigma ceramics, as they'll be easier to use.

I think the average person will probably prefer the sigma ceramics, unless they really gravitate toward hard stones or the water availability is a real issue.

Re: Shaptons and Sigmas

Pam Niedermayer

Note: So far as I know, I have only carbon steel edges at this time, so no consideration for A2, HSS, PM, etc.

I bought the Shapton 2000 and 5000, as well as the lapping plate, very shortly after Harrelson started reselling them, probably in 2002, the same year I started investing seriously in Japanese tools. But I had mostly western edges which I sharpened using sandpaper, grinder, black Arkansas, and leather strop with green. I planned on inserting the Shaptons into roughly the midst of what I had, and also bought an Aoto Mountain Blue for the bridge between the 2k and 5k Shaptons (which probably didn't exist, but it was so pretty).

So, I started sharpening these new eastern tools, and all went pretty well. I dropped the grinder for them and seldom used the black Ark. I really knew nothing much about sharpening, so when I started trying to sharpen my western tools on the Shaptons, I was floored with the stiction after a stroke or two flattening the backs. They were unusable. Now I know there are a couple of things I could have done, but I was so pi__ed. All that money on waterstones that only worked on my few eastern edges. To this day it makes me sick to even look at them in the cabinet.

And I was only saved by the city that issued a stop work order on my shop rebuild, but since I decided to ignore that a couple or four years ago, I've added to my eastern tool collection significantly (to be honest, I also added eastern tools pretty steadily since 2002) and managed to get excellent results from natural waterstones (including the Aoto that's still beautiful).

Now to early this year when I started reading posts about the Sigma Power ceramics. They could solve the problem of not being able to create a real sharpening system with the natural stones. There are always one or two stones that don't work with one or five edges, and this is kind of disruptive. So I bought the SP 1-6-13k set from Stu and I've started testing them with a few edges, with a Tsunesaburo extra large kanaban (from JWW) and White Alumina (thanks, Stu) for back flattening. Generally I'm very pleased with them, they are far superior to the Shaptons, and with the addition of one or two more stones (SP 400 for one), I think I may be on to something special. They feel like regularized natural stones, and they work great with my western edges. One of the reasons I chose the SP's is I plan to make some PM chisels real soon now; and the SP's are supposed to handle PM with aplomb.

But, I won't be ready to make recommendations for quite some time, maybe the end of the year, if then. I guess I have a natural reluctance for proselytizing, describing systems, and writing long posts. And since I'm only an average user, nothing I would have to say about Shaptons is relevant.

Pam

Re: Hard stones...

Schtoo

Dave,

I know you probably won't believe this, but anyway...

The Shapton Pro #1000 isn't that hard. Once upon a time, it was the hardest, flattest stone out there. But not any more. The 1K Pro's last great party trick got taken away from it.

Sorry to burst your bubble there.

In other grits, may be the Shapton actually are harder. I've not really looked into it because the 5K Pro is a pig of a thing (unless it's soaked) and I lose interest when stones are too much of a pain to use. The 12K isn't bad admittedly though.

Stu.

Re: Hard stones...

david weaver

What's harder and cuts as well without needing to be soaked?

The 5K, btw..

david weaver

I have always liked the 5k. It's always worked well for me and it shreds japanese plane irons from white steel to special cutting steel (that's the toughest I have, despite the claims of inukubi being tough, it works like white steel).

If I didn't have it, or lost it, and didn't have another stone, I'd buy the magnesia 6k that fujibato sells, it's a nice stone - feels like a chosera - and an unbeatable deal.

I don't use the 5k shapton for anything else other than japanese stuff, it's not necessary to have it between the 1k and 15k for anything else unless my grinder would suddenly go on the fritz - and that's unlikely. Actually, I'd say that using more than two stones on western tools is a gentleman's game, a downright waste of time.

I do get fatigued by the discussions lately of sharpening stones, where it's the beginners leading the beginners, and the next incrementally different product is a must have, even though I am by no means a person with a spartan bench of sharpening tools. I could get by with any of them at all, but I'd sell the hard ones last, because the soft ones are worthless for carving tools and small stuff that doesn't have a staight flat edge.