Workbench design III

Re: Now I get a doubt ...

Jamey Amrine


>If you don't rigidly attach the heads of your screws to the vise jaw, you should be fine with that design. It would operate much like a leg vise on its side if you are only holding work on one end. You would also gain the advantage of grabbing oddly-shaped items (not sure how often this comes up) since the jaw is floating on the screws.

I think you have a billion more dog holes than you need. I have two rows on my bench with a Veritas twin-screw on my bench, and I have only ever used the front row.

I would go with round dogs in that design, personally (since you could take advantage of the intended racking to hold odd items). Make one row, and add more if you need them. If you are planning to use both sides of the bench, put a row up each side if you really think you need it.

I really would add to the other folks' comments here and warn you not to make it too complicated. I have two vises on my bench: a front vise and a twin-screw used as a tail vise. My next bench will have a twin screw on the front and that is all. Anything else just gets in the way.

Re: Now I get a doubt ...

ThomD


>It will wrack to the extent that your dog is not lined up with the screw. It is probably possible to make it work. In the three vise example you have the L vise as your primary and you aren't planing on doing much planing on the other side, as say pull planing so what does it mater?

By the way, how are you making these screws? You need big screws for a vise like 1.5" and bigger, does your friend have the tools for that?

Re: Some gorund rules

ThomD


>We have to have a few ground rules. I suppose Dirk wants to create the ultimate bench, but it is very unlikely that will happen, as I am sure he knows. We have all given our versions of what that might be and none of it suited him. What he in addition said was that he wanted to try out a bunch of clamping strategies. There probably isn't any really compelling reason for building a bench with 3 tail vises, unless the idea is that you want to try various tail vises out. If you build the Franz Klauz bench, and I built the similar Frid bench first, it will probably strike you as ideal and then you need look no further. If you built three benches for whatever reason you would be unlikely to find all three individually perfect and better than the other three, so there is a point to experimentation if you are interested in that kind of thing. If on the other hand we are trying to work out the perfect format for a bench no larger than Franz Klauses, then I am withdrawing support for any number of the features we have discussed up to this point.

On the specifics, The clamping method in B is the standard, and the one I use on my bench, it works fine. On the other hand more clamping points can help, thin wide stock, irregular stock, round stock, or curiousity about multiple vises.

Dirk you may have gotten the idea that only a lined up vise with screw is possible, but that is not the tradition in your own country. Off center L tail vises with wooden screws were the norm. On the other hand your bench is pretty long and depending on what tail and what type of work you do you could make an argument for any of them.

I find the LV double screw tail vise format works every bit as well as an L for tail clamping that requires only a few inches of movement with the rest adressed by the dog hole spacing. The design uses rack proof features and some alignment pins that make the tail vise funtion like a bank vault. It has not been a good fit for the space I have ultimately given the bench, but the functioning has been good.

Who let the dogs out?

jim reed @ tallahassee


>Why so many dog holes? Are you trying to clamp irregularly shaped objects????

Re: Who let the dogs out?

ThomD


>I think he is trying to irregularly clamp shaped objects.

He is trying to make a bench that is different, that explores different vise types and will allow him to do the work he likes in the space he has.

Re: bravo

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI


>Can't add much of an answer to the question, but have to say I have been following your posts with great interest and a little bit of a grin on my face. My saw sharpening technique was referred to as a kind of "rough and ready" work process at the Five Barns picnic, which I think is a description that pretty much sums up my character quite well actually. I would never have the patience to think about so many different plans for a bench, instead of just taking a plan out of a book and making it. I have to plan a backpacking trip to Isle Royal for next summer, and will have to approach it with the same tenacity that you are displaying in your aproach to the bench. Thanks for the inspiration.

Re: Now I get a doubt ...

Dirk Vogel


>"It will wrack to the extent that your dog is not lined up with the screw. It is probably possible to make it work. In the three vise example you have the L vise as your primary and you aren't planing on doing much planing on the other side, as say pull planing so what does it matter?"

It matters to the extent that if the twin vise design worked also with wooden screws, I'd prefer that one because it involves two screws instead of three, and I think they'd be easier to fix into the benchtop, too.

"By the way, how are you making these screws? You need big screws for a vise like 1.5" and bigger, does your friend have the tools for that?"

He's going to build 2" screws, I hope that's ok :-)

Re: Who let the dogs out?

Dirk Vogel


>Thanks, Thom, it's good to feel understood from time to time :-) Fortunatedly you follow my adventures since the beginning, so if there's someone who can understand my project, it's you :-))

Re: Some gorund rules

Dirk Vogel


>"I suppose Dirk wants to create the ultimate bench, but it is very unlikely that will happen, as I am sure he knows."

Well, as I wrote some days ago, an ideal workbench would be height-adjustable, resizeable, plane for eternity, and it would dissolve into thin air when you don't need it. From that point of view, I know I'll be able to build only a compromise at best.

"We have all given our versions of what that might be and none of it suited him."

That's not true ! You robbed me of a bunch of nice, but impossible ideas I had, yes. But I'm glad to have had the possibility to take this kind of advice before starting to saw the wood that's already awaiting me.

"On the specifics, The clamping method in B is the standard, and the one I use on my bench, it works fine."

Ok, I got that.

"Dirk you may have gotten the idea that only a lined up vise with screw is possible, but that is not the tradition in your own country. Off center L tail vises with wooden screws were the norm."

Well, yes, but now I think more precision is more important to me than less screwing (the only advantage you may have out of three or four dogholes).

"I find the LV double screw tail vise format works every bit as well as an L for tail clamping that requires only a few inches of movement with the rest adressed by the dog hole spacing."

But here you're speaking of that specific Veritas product, not about the general idea, or do I get you wrong ?

Makes sense

jim reed @ tallahassee


>as an exploration of design. As a practical workbench not so much. The dogs are used for holding boards. Two dogs have taken care of 100% of my bench clamping needs. Using more would require extensive use of wedged shims--the geometry just makes my head spin. Good luck with your bench.

Re: bravo

Victor P


>Which ferry are you planning on taking to Isle Royal? We were there two years ago this September 4 -14th. Great-excellent hiking. Terrific views etc. We took the ferry out of Copper Harbor. Very smooth going, but the return ride was rather rough. Look for the red foxes they are so great to watch.

Was going to add the island in the fog pic here... cnat find it.

Regards from steamy Houston

Victor P

Who's your friend...

Jamey Amrine


>...and how is he making the screws?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Re: Hand tool content :^)

Edward in Vancouver


>Did you know that wine corks fit in 3/4" dog holes? I pop ' em in, and saw them off flush. When I need the hole, out comes the cork screw....

I also have two dog holes located infront of my vice, so the holes can't go all the way through the table. I turned my dogs, fitted them with 1/4" bullet catches . I push them down so they are flush with the top, when I need the dogs, I fish them out with a needle nose.

Re: Who's your friend...

Dirk Vogel


>He's called Palme, lives in Freiburg (Germany) as well, and his tool is what one seems to use anyway for screws, like you can see here :

Re: Who's your friend...

Kurt Loup, Baton Rouge


>Are those commercially available?

Kurt

Re: Hand tool content :^)

William Duffield, on the Cohansey


>Great tip. I'm going to try that.

Do you know of a source for square wine corks? :^)

Re: Who's your friend...

Dirk Vogel


>Of course. In Germany I know three addresses where you can buy that kind of tool. So I'm sure that you must be able to get them, too :-) For the US, I don't know any resellers, however.

Re: Lightning strikes twice

ThomD


>It's the correct adress, but I am in Canada not Australia, as far as the Yahoo part is concerned. It's my know nothing approach to spam reduction. You may not get an immediate response to your email since lightning fried the modem i was using this month, I'm on yet another computer here for tonight. There will also be a blessed reduction in my Woodcentral posts for a while...

This is the second fried modem from lightning. Apparently my computer host feels buying more modems is easier than buying a surge protector.

Oxymoron

Bill Houghton, fog can come back any time now, pls


>Squares drink screwcap wine.

Bill, out West where the saying goes, "Sonoma makes wine; NAPA makes auto parts."

Love it!

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond, CA


>Bill, That's soooo well put!

Re: Now I get a doubt ...

ThomD


>"It matters to the extent that if the twin vise design worked also with wooden screws, I'd prefer that one because it involves two screws instead of three, and I think they'd be easier to fix into the benchtop, too. "

There are basically three things that make it work on the LV:

- They have these pins that hold the vise from drooping etc, for the first few inches this ensures that you get nice accurate alignment for the first few inches and makes it seem like a tail vise in use since it opens cleanly.

- The chain business isn't necesarry but it does make the vise work as a unit, I would not probably try to adapt this to a wooden model.

- The garter mechanism is strong enough to be used to apply outward clamping pressure, which keeps the jaw ballanced.

In this unit you don't want the dogs in line with the screw since they would pierce the screw.

"By the way, how are you making these screws? You need big screws for a vise like 1.5" and bigger, does your friend have the tools for that?"

He's going to build 2" screws, I hope that's ok :-)

Sounds pretty big to me.