Making pegs for drawboring

Re: Making pegs for drawboring

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Off-the-shelf dowels will be not much good for this job. The way to make them is to drawknife and spokeshave to size by forming 4 faces, then 8, then 16, and so forth. It helps to make a small plastic template with the hole size for sizing the pins as you're shaving.

As to drawboring, you buy some drawbores (non-round) or make some round ones a la Chris Schwartz/Pop WW. You drill a hole through the mortise housing, then insert the tenon and mark the hole position on the tenon, then drill slightly (say 1/8") off the hole, insert back into M&T, and pound the pin. It helps if you slightly round/point the pins. Kingshott's video on M&T shows this.

Pam

I use... *LINK*

David

>Lie Nielsen's dowel plate - kind of pricy, but will last a lifetime of doweling. Don't use dowels from the store because they are milled with no regard for grain direction and therefore can be very weak. The trick is to rive a straight-grained piece of wood (split it along the grain) then whittle off the edges and start hammering it through the various size holes on the dowel plate. You end up with a dowel that has the grain running end to end - very strong.

You can make one of these plates pretty easily, but the sharp edge and tapered back of the Lie Nielsen plate really make this task a joy.

Regards

David (no affiliation with LN)


Lie Nielsen Dowle plate

Re: Making pegs for drawboring

Christopher Schwarz

>Andy,

If you are very careful, you can use dowels for drawboring. It's all about material selection: Buy dowels where the grain is arrow straight. Sort through the entire pile of dowels. I've also found that if you are going to go this route, it works best with the bigger dowels, such as the 3/8" dia.

My perferred method is to rive them as Pam describes.

Chris

Re: Making pegs for drawboring

VTAndy

>Thanks for these responses. I'll try to make my own, but just for fun, when I'm at a home store (I need to pick up a few other things anyhow) I'm going to take a look through the dowels just to see what it would be like to pick and choose.

My next question is: what do I start with? Just a 4/4 with very straight grain, which I then split, then use a spokeshave to get it down to size (or alternatively, the LN dowel plate)?

I'm building the bench out of poplar, so should I use the poplar scraps to make the pegs, or should I choose something harder (like ash or oak)?

Thanks again,

Andy

Re: I use...

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Good idea to use a dowel plate for smaller diameters, David, but not for 1" and larger that I've been making lately for a timber frame workshop and chairs. The LN sure is a pricey plate, but looks wonderful.

Pam

Re: Making pegs for drawboring

Christopher Schwarz

>Andy,

I also like the dowel plate for smaller diameters (3/8" and smaller) as well. I rive the pegs with a pocket knife, whittle the end and pound them through the plate.

I don't think I'd use poplar, however. I have had the best luck (no splits) with white oak. It bends nicely.

Chris

Re: Making pegs for drawboring

Bob Hackett(Mainely,Bob)

>The thing to keep in mind when drawboring seems to be keeping the grain running thru the pin because the pin has to deflect and come back at least alittle as it passes thru the series of holes and pulls the parts into alignment.If the grain runs out then there`s a good chance the pin will break.

I`d use either oak,ash,or hickory if you can get it.Think of how well the wood you plan on using would bend.

Hope you sized the tenons alittle generously as poplar tends to be alittle soft and the KD stuff we get up here has a tendency to split when stressed.

Good luck with it.

Mainely,Bob

PS

Bob Hackett(Mainely,Bob)

>While at the Borg,if you can`t find any good stock in the dowel rack then try the replacement handles for hammers and garden tools.I`ve had some luck there,especially with hickory and ash.

MB

Re: Finally! A use for broken handles!

john in NM

>

Re: Making pegs for drawboring

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>I think it might help if we state the problem.

So you've got the whole project done and you're just putting in the pegs to draw everything together. If you have a bad peg, it will split inside the joint The force required to get any wood to split is fairly high, so that means the resistance was similarly high and the peg is stuck fast. Generally, pegs don't want to get drifted out. I've tried brass drifts, and they have just crushed the peg and not moved it. I've tried ash drifts and at least one time it got stuck in the joint and became a permanent part of my project. Okay- so that's the problem. you don't want to break the pegs.

Here's what I do: I use a dowelling plate to make a peg the size of my drill bit. The holes in my plate correspond to specific bits (since my bits are "whatever" size). I try to make the pegs 25-50% longer than the joint is wide. Then I slightly taper the peg, leaving the last bit full diameter. I always use hardwood pegs and prefer maple, oak, and the like. At the small end, the peg will slip thru the tenon. Dave Hoffman taught me to drive nails and pegs slowly, with a million light taps. This has worked for me. So I drive the pegs and listen to the ping ping ping song. You soon learn the highest note a peg can make. The nice thing about the tapered peg is you get to choose when to quit. Its a little like playing chicken! I try to always make it so I fill the hole on the near side with the untapered region of the peg.

At the wmsburg conference this year, I asked whether drawboring was evident on 18th c formal chairs. They said drawboring was not common outside of carpentry. I was surprised by that. I use it pretty much all of the time.

Good luck with your pegging. I like it. I think its fun to drawbore stuff. Keep in mind that its not a cure for sloppy joinery. So when you are doing a frame say, you may have to assemble everything and tap all the pegs at once like installing a head on an engine. If any of those joints aren't 90, you're screwed.

Adam

Early drawboring

Christopher Schwarz

>Adam,

The Williamsburg comment is interesting. John Alexander's forthcoming book might make things more complex -- he sawed apart a lot of early joints. It should be fun.

(Along those lines: I'm still not going to file all my saws rip, no matter that Tage Frid or the Williamsburg people say.)

Chris

Re: Early drawboring

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Yeah, me too on the x-cut saws.

Just to be crystal clear, the context in which I asked the question was concerning formal mid century chairs. Pretty sure John Alexander has convinced us all that 17th c formes and "joined" or "joint" stools were draw bored. But then again, the men that made those stools (joiners) were essentially carpenters who very recently began applying timber framing techniques to furniture. As the 18th c marched on, furniture ceased to be made by woodworkers with carpentry skills and the basic ww techniques diverged.

I draw bore cabinet doors. Not sure there's any evidence of that. And they seemed to indicate drawboring was rare. That said, sometimes guys do stuff without thinking or even realizing. So those same Wmburg craftsmen may well drawbore stuff without thinking about and may just not register a drawbored joint they are dissassembling.

I think its a fascinating subject. We are all very lucky we can seriously discuss such things.

Adam

Re: Early drawboring

Christopher Schwarz

>Adam,

I don't think there was any doubt about the joint stools and the 17th century stuff myself, either.

But when John put out the call for "donor" furniture for his study, I think it covered a wide swath of time periods. He chatted with me a little about it last year, but I'll wait to read the results.

One of the curious aspects of the technique is that most of the steel pins extant are large-scale stuff for the timber framing. The smaller ones, at least those in Mercer, are wood. Makes sense if you think about it. The wooden pins might be "Smalle Things Forgotten."

By the way, love the latest column that crossed my desk last week.

Chris

Thanks

VTAndy

>Thanks to both of you for the continued discussion here. Very helpful and interesting. We are lucky to be able to discuss such things!

I went to the big box store this afternoon, for some other supplies that I couldn't otherwise get on a Sunday (smaller stores are closed). Felt so overloaded by the atmosphere in there that I didn't bother with the dowels.

I will get some hardwood for the pegs next time that I go to the lumberyard (to get the ash for the hook, planestop, and vise). I figure that I could try to make the pegs using several different methods and see what works best for me.

-Andy

Firewood

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Andy,

Feel free to raid the firewood pile for this job. This is a perfect application for this sort of thing. You've mentioned buying lumber for this a couple times. My neighbors cut down trees and leave little sections of trunk by the curb for people with fireplaces and pickup trucks. I have neither, but one section of white oak will go a long way.

Adam

Plumley

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Not sure how a wooden draw bore pin would work exactly. It might decide to turn itself into a peg.

Glad you liked Plumley. I hope you and I aren't the only ones.

Speaking of which:

my latest article is about Charles Plumley, a cabinetmaker who died in 1708. His shop was inventoried by fellow woodworkers and their accounting was very detailed. I found the inventory fascinating. I hope you do too. But I'll certainly understand if you don't want stuff like this in your woodworking magazine. I think its cool that Chris Schwarz is willing to publish Arts&Mysteries at all, let alone something like this which is really pushing the bounds of ww mags.

He may not like this, but I recommend writing Chris and giving him the thumbs up or thumbs down on this article. Have I gone too far afield? Or is this sort of thing a nice change of scenary? I won't write another article like it, so your response won't effect me personally. But it will effect what articles Chris accepts in the future. I guess its a question of relevance. Be sure to look beyond my lack of skill as an author when you cast your vote.

Adam

Re: Firewood

VTAndy

>Thanks for the ideas, Adam.

I actually don't see much "stray" firewood in these parts. People are also quite frugal about their wood and anything usable would probably get burned in their own stoves. It's still worth a try to ask a friend what kind of wood they've got in the woodpile.

However, now I recall that another friend was drying some oak from his own property (over in NY). Several of the boards are excessively warped, and some split. I'll probably take a look at those and maybe they'll find their future as pegs for drawboring.

-Andy

Re: Plumley

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Yeah, but think of how the sales will go through the roof when you cut your foot off! Geesh, Adam, at least wear hard soled work shoes, preferably with steel toes. :)

Pam

Re: Early drawboring

Warren in Lancaster, PA

>Around 1980 I had a close friend in the restoration business who visited Williamsburg. He worked on hundreds of 18th century chairs in those days. At Williamsburg they tried to tell him that no 18th century formal chairs had pegs. Anybody who has seen Philadelphia chairs has seen pegs on some of the chairs. I just checked two measured drawings I made of early Philadelphia Chippendale chairs. One had pins, the other did not. Eighteenth Century cabinetmakers were like 21st century cabinetmakers- their methods varied.

Worse than I thought

Adam Cherubini

>I put buckles on my shoes today and gave them a good coat of wax. The upturned lip of that ship adz came a lot closer to my flesh than I previously thought. There were several deep cuts, into the sole and thru the shoe leather.

I still like the technique. But in all seriousness, your recommendation is a smart one.

Adam

I still have a nice scar...

Michael Recchione

>From the time I tried to amputate my foot with an adze. I actually saw bone that time. I've learned to respect those things since then :-).

Re: Early drawboring

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>I have an 18th century QA chair with pegged M&T joints. I also have a pegged 17th century post and frame chest. These are common details. However, I think the distinction is whether the holes in the mortise and in the tenon are aligned or are slightly out of alignment, so that the peg is stressed and bent, thus drawing the joint tighter. The problem is that you cannot readily tell which method was used without disassembling the joint and examining the peg and the alignment of the bores, and even then, after a couple of centuries of stress and wear, the subtle difference may be very difficult to detect. If the chair has been disassembled and repaired in the past, the evidence may be totally obliterated.

Re: Plumley

Michael Recchione

>I haven't seen the article yet, but it sounds great. Personally, I prefer a magazine that teaches me ABOUT woodworking, rather than one that tries to teach me woodworking, if you know what I mean. There are loads of basic books on woodworking techniques available, and there are more common projects and tool reviews published than anyone could possibly need in several lifetimes. I love to see articles about things that I may never actually do myself, but that enrich my understanding of the craft, its philosophy, its applications and its history.

My thanks to Adam and Chris.

OT - big box stores and malls

Bill Houghton, cold and rainy in Sebastopol, CA

>I guess I've become sensitized or something, but I can't go to a mall, and sometimes a big box store, without feeling overwhelmed myself. I sympathize.