Large Tenon saw

Hey Adam?

Steve Kubien

>Nice work Mike, as always.

Adam, is this the sort of thing you refer to as a 'proper' tenon saw? If not, what kinda dimensions are you talking about?

Thanks,

Steve Kubien

Re: Hey Adam?

mikew

>Don't want to speak for Adam--so I won't!

Larger/longer, fewer ppi would be my opinion. At least 16", 9/10 ppi for a rip. Preferably a progressive ppi, or my preference a progressive rake at the first few inches of the toe. I am making a larger version in the next week or two. Same handle style.

Take care, Mike

Re: Large Tenon saw

Vlad

>Beautiful work Mike! I love the wood grain. Might have to purchase some of that wood for myself one day.

couple of questions.

How deep is your milled groove in the back? It looks very deep and susceptible to the jewellers saw breaking on you = $$. What RPM do you use? I'm planning to try some myself that way when the weather turns warmer but I plan to mill 3/16 to 1/4" - Stephen Thomas and TLN suggested that for a number of reasons.

Why do you only have 2 saw nuts? I've seen too many old saws with 2 nuts and loose handles. The brass nuts will be prone to excessive wear and eventually blade movement. Just curious.

Keep up the excellent work and good luck with your business!

Vlad

Re: Large Tenon saw

mikew

>Hi Vlad!

Thank you very much for the kind words.

"couple of questions.

How deep is your milled groove in the back?"

This is a folded back...

"I plan to mill 3/16 to 1/4" - Stephen Thomas and TLN suggested that for a number of reasons."

Yep. I just got a vertical mill [given to me, gloat gloat ]. I probably wouldn't go deeper than 1/4". The epoxy will either hold or not. The machine shop that has run the slotted backs goes deeper. But I wouldn't want to risk it. I'm sure my mill has a bit looser tolerances than theirs does.

"Why do you only have 2 saw nuts?"

Todd just asked the same question on another forum. Partly because the one I took the pattern from had 2 [mid-1800s]. Also, these bolts are larger than a standard bolt. The heads are 9/16" and the bolt size is 1/4". Too, the hole in the metal is less than 1/64" larger than the bolts, and the back of the blade fits snug to the back of the handle slot. The hole in the wood is a press fit for the bolts.

However, for the larger tenon saws, or with less ppi, there are 3.

Again, thank you for the kind words!

Take care, Mike

Re: Large Tenon saw

Tony Zaffuto

>Beautiful Mike! Do you have any plans to add an etch to your products? Might be a nice nostalgic touch!

Tony Zaffuto

Re: Large Tenon saw

mikew

>Hi Tony,

Etch? Possibly down the road.

As for nostalga, for now I have been going round and round about a stamp. Most likely it will be as per an old Moulson I have. Small, unobtrusive on the backs. An even older idea than an etch...

Take care, and thank you for the compliments!

Mike

'nuther nice one...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>Mike, Where (or how) did you the develop handle pattern? Never seen a flat bottomed one.

Re: Hey Adam?

Dean J in MN

>I won't speak for Adam either, but I'd say at least 16" but better 19"-20", 9 tpi rip, I'll leave the rake angles up to you and your skills. Also, put plenty of saw under the brass, say 4 inches.

I think the position of the handle on the pictured saw is a move to the right direction for a tenon saw. Gets your hand behind the cutting edges, not unlike the frame saw I use to cut tenons.

-Dean

Re: 'nuther nice one...

mikew

>Hi Scott,

'Tis an old pattern. Taken from two tenon saws I have with "English Pattern" handles. I merged a couple of the details, though it mainly is from just one.

If I could find either of them, I'd give a maker's name--I think I have too many saws. Nah. But my organization leaves something to be desired. They're in a box in the loft above my shop space.

Take care--and thanks for the compliment!

Mike

Re: Large Tenon saw

Tom Price

>I notice that you only have two bolts securing the handle. Disston saws of this size had three. Really think two is enough?

- Tom

Re: Large Tenon saw

HC Sakman

>Flat bottom of the handle looks interesting Mike.

Subtle modern line just in the right amount of dose. I like it.

Chico...

Split screws, nuts & bolts

HC Sakman

>If the blade is seated (backed to the handle as well as the blade back fitting) properly, 2 screws will hold it well enough. Loose blades appreciate 3 of them better.

Chico...

London Pattern

Jeff Schmidt

>Flat bottom of the handle looks interesting Mike.Subtle modern line just in the right amount of dose.

The flat bottom is very typical of a 19th century London pattern.

Re: London Pattern

HC Sakman

>There's always something new to learn. Thanks Jeff.

Chico...

Re: Hey Adam?

Adam Cherubini

>I like long tenon saws. This one has a 19" blade, 2' overall length. These saws haven't been popular for 200 years so its not wonder Mike hasn't focused his attention on them.

Re: Hey Adam?

Adam Cherubini

>You can really see the difference between an efforts from an amateur saw maker like me and mike's work. Notice teh hammer tracks in the brass. The bottom lobe of the handle (to the left) should be one smooth and pleasant curve. This handle just doesn't cut it. I like the boldness of the design in general, in fact I prefer it. But I'm not proud of this tool, not proud of the execution of the design.

Re: Hey Adam?

Adam Cherubini

>This, IMHO is better work and more closely representative of the boldness as well as the details of 18th c saw handles. The horns are longer than any copy I've ever seen. Notice the beautiful cuts above the saw nuts. These features have since been simplified (ruined) or obliterated by the use of machines. In this light you can see the hard bold chamfers of the grip clearly- but they are subtle in 3d and perfectly comfortable. Notice also the grain orientation of the beech handle- a simple detail often missed by experienced saw makers. This saw is as near an exact copy to the dt in the seaton chest as any I've ever seen including those in Wmsburg.

Ready for the kicker? It doesn't cut ANY BETTER than a LN or Adria and it took me a whole day to make! :)

Adam

Re: Hey Adam? *LINK*

mikew

>Absolutely to everything Adam just wrote.

18-19 inches, 3 3/4" to 4 1/2" usable depth. Depending on the scale of the work being sawn, a long saw at 9 ppi I feel is both more controllable as well as of course less strokes--which may well mean less chance of error.

Just takes some one to order one. As all our saws are made to user's dimensions...While we list a shorter size in the large tenon saw list, we'll really make any size saw. To make it more clear, at least on the price list, I just updated the Large Tenon saw listing.

Take care, Mike


Saw Price list

Re: Large Tenon saw

mikew

>Hi Tom, longer answer is below Vlad's question.

Short answer is Chico's.

But as we make saws to order, if someone wants 3, no problem...

Take care, Mike

Re: Hey Adam?

Tom Colligan, Peoria

>Nice, Adam, for the first attempt. What kind of wood have you used? From Woodfinder I've been buying some European Beech as this, I understand, is the preferred wood for saw handles, as per Tom Law.

Re: Hey Adam?

paul womack

> From Woodfinder I've been buying some European Beech as this, I understand, is the preferred wood for saw handles, as per Tom Law.

I think any close grained wood wood be fine; IIRC Diston used Apple on their premium saws for a long time. I wouldn't see European beech as worth the hunt (if you're in the USA - I can get it easily, but I can't get Maple or Hickory).

Certainly the fruitwoods (hard, stable, close grained) would work, as would boxwood, if ya' had a large enough piece.

I've seen small saws with box wood handles in the UK. Very cute (but not common).

BugBear

Re: Large Tenon saw

paul womack

>An even older idea [a stamp]than an etch...

Most likely because stamps were already made and used on other tools.

BugBear

Re: London Pattern

paul womack

>The flat bottom is very typical of a 19th century London pattern.

Yep; I see those around. At the risk of being considered heathen, I much prefer a simple "full curve".

Here's Alan DuBoff's Gallery of saws

BugBear

Handle material

Adam Cherubini

>This is locally grown KD beech and as near to quartersawn as I could get.

My goal was not to find a "best" material, but rather represent what was done as best as I could.

As for substitute materials, Maple and cherry split much easier than beech does. Beech is really a bear to split. Even apple seems to split better than beech. Beech splits like I would imagine rock splits. No its not hard like stone, but the splits have no great desire to follow the grain. I wonder if it isn't more isotropic than maple- surely its neither as hard nor as strong as maple, but its cross grain properties may well be better or at least closer to its long grain properties.

I liked working it. Keep in mind too (enter excuses) I have no power tools, so this whole project was done by hand. I really wished I had a drill press to drill the many concentric handle attach holes. All the scroll work was done with my turning saw, even the metal wotk was just done with hammers and files, etc. It was a fun project, but saws (at least in my shop) are fairly time consuming to make. When people visit they look at them then ask me how I cut the teeth. TEETH? TEETH? Don't look at the teeth! That was the easiest part of the job!

Adam