stopped dado technique

Re: cheater's method

Dave Mount

>One approach is to rip a strip off the front of the side panel, make non-stopped dados in what remains, then glue the front strip back on, creating stopped dados. Depending on your wood, the joint may not be very visible (and might be worth the saved effort, even if it is).

Dave

LOL

Jack Guzman from Maine

>I hadn't thought of that method.If I was trying to get this done in a rush I might do that but this project is part of a learning process. I want to perfect hand tool methods. ---Jack

Re: stopped dado technique

Alan Hamilton

>Jack,

I use a Forstner bit (yes, in a brace) at the stopped end instead of chopping away with a chisel. It makes a much neater hole--with a flat bottom--and it's easy to stop at the right depth. Other than that, I make them the same way as you.

Ain't it fun to zip out the wood! It even makes that noise: "Zzzzzip!"

Alan

Re: stopped dado technique

John K in Hastings, MN

>You can do it with hand tools by sawing or chiseling the outline of the dado. Use a router plane or paring chisel to remove the wood between the cuts, then cut again to go deeper.

John

Re: stopped dado technique

Jack Guzman from Maine

>I started out using a forstner but I found that it complicates things.It takes takes less physical effort but more futzing around to get the hole square and to exact width.

With a chisel,a couple chops,clean it out and you're done.---Jack

Re: stopped dado technique

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I don't understand. Don't you have to have the dados through the front to perform the task at hand (removing and inserting the cd's).

Pam

Re: stopped dado technique

Jack Guzman from Maine

>The cds stack on shelves loosely.The shelves are dodoed into the sides of the case.---Jack

also

Jack Guzman from Maine

>This case is designed to hold alot of cds.It will have 4 shelves with the cds stacked on edge side by side the same way books are on a bookshelf.The case will have additional storage in a pair of doors.My friend has a very extensive collection of music.---Jack

I see, sorry for interrupting the conversation.

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>

Re: stopped dado technique

chichi

>Are you using a saw because you dont have a plane to make a dado such as a stanley # 45. I just got a stanley #45 and asked the same question. I set up a fence and went at it. I scored a line first to establish the sides of the dado ,but, otherwise, the plane just scooped out what needed to go. Pretty straight forward.

Is a "plow plane" what is traditionally used to do this?

Regards,

Bob

Re: stopped dado technique

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>There was a different technique of hiding (or celebrating) this joint that was used on high end pieces in the 18th Century. Really, there were several variations that were used for installing drawer dividers. If you go to Jeffrey Greene's American Furniture of the 18th Century or several other sources, it will explain it with clear drawings, and a lot better than I can with just words. You will also find good explanations and drawings in Norm Vandal's Queen Anne Furniture. Even Bill Hylton's Illustrated Cabinetmaking shows it, but not with such detail. I don't have my copy of Joyce at hand, but I would expect it is in there, too.

Basically, you cut an unstopped shallow dado, and then continue it with a sliding dovetail. The shelf is made of a narrow front strip of your primary wood, into which the tail is cut, and the rest of the shelf is made of the secondary wood. The secondary wood can even be thinner than the dado, because you can insert a batten between the bottom of the shelf to the bottom of the dado. This makes it a lot easier to install. You choose the depth of the dado to match the width of a scratch bead or cock bead that is applied to the front surface of the case sides, on the inner edge only, and to both the top and bottom front edges of the shelf. If you use a scratch bead, then you need to miter the ends of the bead while forming the dovetail. Of course, you would have to miter the ends of the applied cock bead if you choose to use that, but that is a bit less nerve wracking, as any mistakes are fixed by just replacing a piece of the thin bead stock. The cock bead also requires cutting rabbets to hold it in the shelf front and the case sides and top and bottom, and then gluing and tacking the bead in place.

The dovetails in the ends of the dividers also substantially increase the structural integrity of the front of the cas, since they keep the case sides from bowing out with wood movement.

Of course, I have no idea whether such a detail, with the ends of the dovetails showing in the front of the frame, would match the rest of the style of this piece.

I hope I've helped. If this is not clear, I'll be glad to answer questions.

Re: stopped dado technique

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>Not exactly: A plough plane is designed to cut grooves, with the grain, for example for installing drawer bottoms, while a dado plane, often with a skewed blade, but with an essential pair of nickers, cuts dados across the grain. The #45 combo plane does both jobs. On the other hand, if you are looking for a better way to make sure the bottom of the dado is flat, you do a lot of dados, and don't like to fuss with the #45, and you like old metal planes, look at starting a collection of a set of the Stanley #39 planes. They come in several different widths, in fractions of an inch. Patrick Leach discusses them in Blood and Gore, along with info on the wooden dados, which they superceded.

Re: stopped dado technique

Jack Guzman from Maine

>Actually I like the idea of the dovetail in front.I wasn't real happy with the way the shelves ended in front.It seems too sloppy.I also thought about the spreading of the sides.

However this wasn't the gist of my question. I guess I wasn't very clear.What I'm looking for is input on my sawing method.How do others make this saw cut? I'm trying to learn the basics of hand tool use.

As to the dado plane,I'm working on getting some woodies of different sizes.I have a 45 but it seems too clumsy for this operation.The 39s look interesting but they go for way too much on ebay for me to buy one just to see if I like it.

Jack

Re: stopped dado technique

Richard A. Gillespie, Jr.

>I saw Roy Underhill do a demonstration on stopped dado's on a show a while ago. He used was he called a stair saw. It's a saw blade about 10" long encased in a wooden handle that resembles a plane silhouette. The blade is adjustable for the amount exposed to control the depth of cut. He then use a router plane to remove the waste. Hope that helps.

Re: stopped dado technique

Marc in Luxembourg

>Jack,

I made it the way Dave proposed. I ripped off a strip, made the dadoes with my handmade dadoplane having two nickers and finally glued the strip back. You can't see the dadoes, but the dividers. After smoothing, you actually have to look very close to see, this board hasn't always been one.

You see the walnut dadoplane atop the blockplane shelf. It took about ten hours to be built (my first one) I think it can cut, sorry plane, dadoes with a double fence much more accurately, than you ever could with a handsaw. And it's all hand tools :-)

Cheers, Marc

That's a nice lookin plane

Jack Guzman from Maine

>Marc,Do you have any detail pictures of that?If not,how about a few construction details.

That's two votes for slicing off the front. I'll have to try that.

Re: stopped dado technique

Jack Guzman from Maine

>A stair saw is on my tuit list.I plan on making one.I'll have to look for that episode of Woodwright's shop,or was that on some other show?Do you remember how he started his cut? Did he dip the toe to start or just saw straight across from the beginning?---Jack

Marc....

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>Here we are talking about stopped dados and you have to step in and flash us a snippet of tool porn.

Seeing how I�m currently designing a plane till I need all the help I can get ;^)

Come on Man give us the BIG picture, please?

Re: stopped dado technique

Richard A. Gillespie, Jr.

>It was on one of the woodwright shows and if I remember right he started the process with a brace and bit. I think he then used a square and marking knife to do the outline of the dado. In the past I've seen him pare some of the wood away on the waste side of the cut with a chisel. This is intended to assist the saw start flat the length of the cut. I can't say that I remember him doing that on this episode.

Re: That's a nice lookin plane

Marc in Luxembourg

>Jack,

Here's my test board with the plane. Sorry, but I made no construction pictures.

The dado on the far right (#5) is the first one I was satisfied with. The plane�s body is made of three pieces glued up. The centre piece was a board of 1/2 inch, the same thickness as the iron. The trickiest things to do were the dadoes for the knickers. The dadoes are in the centre board. I made them with a router. (Shame on me!)After sawing out the triangle for iron and wedge, and positioning the hole of the nickers� screw, I doweled the three pieces together. Adjusting the knickers and planing the sole in order to open the mouth was fun. The wedge is slightly thinner as the iron.

If you have further questions, please let me know,

Cheers, Marc

Re: Marc....

Marc in Luxembourg

>Scott,

Here�s the picture. But let me tell you, the wall cabinet is not finished. These days I�m working on the door.

Cheers, Marc

Thank you, Marc....

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>Nice looking cabinet. Nice content too!

Love to see it when it's complete!

Re: stopped dado technique

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>Yes, #39s are expensive, especially if you think you need a whole set. I think if I decided I needed a set of dado planes, I would do what Marc did, and make a set of woodies. Once you figured out how to do it, there are some repetitive operations that you could repeat for every plane in the set, and save yourself a lot of time per plane. For now, though, I think I'll have to make do with my RAS and Freud SuperDado set, and save the handtool development for where the results show.

Re., sawing stopped dados, I can only speak to stopped sliding dovetails, for pedestal tables, but the ideas are the same. I drilled a clearance hole at the far end of the cut and then used a backsaw with an angled block of wood for alignment. Since my saw cut on the push stroke, it pushes the sawdust into the clearance hole, so I have to stop every two or three strokes to clear the cut. I think at least some stairsaws cut on the pull stroke, which increases the efficiency somewhat. For stopped sliding dovetails, the clearance hole is covered by the shoulder of the dovetail, which is not a luxury you have with dadoed shelves.

Re: That's a nice lookin plane

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

> The trickiest things to do were the dadoes for the knickers.

Are you saying that you need a dado plane to make a dado plane? :^J (translation: tongue in cheek)

Seriously, I have a question: Does yours have a depth stop? I don't see one from the views shown in the photos. Of course, to use one, if you started the dado with a double fence, you would have to remove one fence before you were finished, to engage the depth stop.