Adam's striking knife response

knives and forks

Adam Cherubini

>Hi Pam,

You make many good points, but the one about poking your eye out isn't one of them. That's come up before, and it always makes me chuckle. In the 5 or so years I've been using my striking knife, I've never once injured myself with it. In the 35 or so years I've been eating with a fork, I've never stabbed my self with that either (and I wave it very close to my face).

But if you were to ask if I would hand out striking knives to a New Jersey junior high school woodworking class your point of view would probably get much more consideration.

Of course, the point of the article has nothing to do with the striking knife, so I'm not pretending my knife technique is the only or best. And while its up to you woodworkers to consider the message in the context of your own shop, I would say that any knife and any thoughtful technique (like Jeff's) is better than a pencil.

Glad you liked the article Pam. I wrote it for you and the others here. There is no product placement, no sympathy for advertisers--that's probably something we should talk about in the chat, lest I get myself in trouble here. But kudos to PW for printing such things.

Adam

Re: knives and forks

Todd Stock

>Pam:

If it's any comfort, I've been using the old Woodcraft striking knife since the late '70s, and no mishaps yet. The scales have long since bit the dust, and it's useless for fine pins, but still kicking.

I'd give it to my nephew, but after showing him what a great throwing knife it makes (hurted the recipient of your attentions whether head or scribe arrives first), I'm under orders from his mom to forego that kindness.

Re: knives and forks

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Thanks, guys, but unlike Tom Sontag and Ben, I like to minimize the frequencey of sharp pointy things pointing at me and things that hang out in paths that can poke me. I believe both of you.

Jack developed this obnoxious habit about 10 or 15 years ago whereby he'd rest kitchen knives on the edge of the sink with the sharp end pointing into the sink. This really bothered me, even though so far I haven't cut myself on one of them. For about 5 years I simply moved the knife, then I tried to suggest that there were better places to put dirty knives, then I was ready to start throwing them at a handy head. :)

Oh, well.

Pam

Re: knives and forks

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>My pet peeve is the way the sharp knives end up in the utensil basket of the dishwasher...always blade up. That is unless I load it. (Arm well cramped from patting myself on the back)JR

You bet, a truly inconsiderate act.

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>

Re: Adam's striking knife response *LINK*

Mark Harrison -- in Sydney, Australia

>I also like the V knife design. I bought a V knife from Carbatec (antipodean Woodcraft) like the on in the scanned picture below from their current catalogue. Those prices are Australian dollars which is about .75 to the US dollar.

It is very easy to a wickedly sharp edge. I know because I tested this! DAMHIKT I've never injured myself with a power tool but man can I be a klutz with safe hand tool operations when the mood strikes me.




http://www.carbatec.com.au

Re: Adam's striking knife response

Adam Cherubini

>How do you hold this knife? I'd imagine you must hold it like a pen knife. The benefits I discuss are certainly achievable with this knife, but the techniques I offer are inapropriate.

Making deep corner nicks, moving your fence to them (with the knife in the knick), and having plenty of blade length against your square are all key design drivers behind the Anglo American knife I use.

These spear point knives are popular to be sure. Our own Dave Anderson makes very fine ones. But the reason PW included dimensioned drawings of my period knife is that the knives used by hand tool professionals in the 17-19th centuries are unbelievably no longer available.

There's a mystery for you: They could have ground any skew angle and they chose the one shown in the article. Did we learn something new since then that caused us to change the design, or did we forget something? I certainly don't know the answer.

Adam

Re: Adam's striking knife response

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>It seems to me that the different skew angle depends on how you hold the knife. If you hold it like a pen, then the higher angle of your striking knife is better, but if you hold it like a gouge, then the lower angle of a marking knife is better, and you can get two edges on the same blade. If you hold it like a gouge, then a fatter handle is also an advantage, especially if you also use it for trimming and other heavier cutting tasks. Even with yours, I think some sort of rounded handle would be a help.

Re: Adam's striking knife response

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>I have the double-edged knife (top of Mark's list) and have mixed feelings about it. It is quite easy to mark with and, being reversible, it does double duty. The down-side is that the blade is very sharp and cuts a very fine line. This is less useful when marking dovetails (as they are difficult to see), and I am thinking of being sacriligeous and bluntening the blades!

Adam, I have not seen a picture of your striking knife. Would you please post a link or a picture here?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Adam's striking knife response *LINKS*

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>There are two other recent threads related to the subject of this striking knife.

The first thread has a link to a Popular Woodworking article which gives specifications and dimensions for two striking knives.

Guest Chat

The second thread discusses the pros and cons of making tools that you cannot buy.

Tool Making

Chatroom Archive Available?

Jeff Schmidt (KY)

>Is there an archive available of this chatroom session with Adam?

stiches

Scott in MN

>I always told my wife and kids that the knives should go blade down in the drying rack etc... since it's dangerous any other way.

They pretty much ignored me, until I ended up with seven stiches in my arm while trying to turn a light switch off... my daughter had put the knife blade up in the drying rack.

Seeing me bleed all over the kitchen floor apparently made an impact - the knives are all blade down now.

Hasn't happened yet. 2/22 is date

Dan Donaldson

>

Up or down is not the issue

Jim Reed @Tallahassee

>Good kitchen knives should be washed and stored immediately after use if you want to maintain a desirable cutting edge.

Point of clarification

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Both Chris Schwarz and I will be in the chat room with whomever else has nothing better to do that Tuesday night.

I can't say I know Chris well, we've never met face to face and we've only spoken a few times. I can say he seemingly is not afraid to answer questions honestly, plainly in fact and as such is a good fit in both the OLDTOOLS and WC communities.

As you know Jeff, I'm similarly quite willing speak my mind, let alone my alter ego, Adam the hand tool curmudgeon (I hope he doesn't show up) He's already written one of the articles in the series (I think its the one Chris likes best). I'll leave it to you all to figure out which one.

Suffice it to say, this may well be a chat better off NOT archived! At the very least, I think we should assume the conversation will be rated G (for galoot); inapprorpoiate for some woodworkers.

Hope you see you there Jeff,

Adam

Whew!

Jeff Schmidt (KY)

>I am glad that I did not miss it. I want the opinionated curmudgeon there. None of this "whatever works for you" postmodernism for me! :-)

Congratulations on the Arts and Mysteries column. And thank you, Mr. Schwarz, for venturing into new territory with Popular Woodworking.

Re: Up or down is not the issue

Rob Lee

>Actually - I'd add "oiled" to that...

Ive used laminated Japanese kitchen knives for years, and get washed, dried, oiled, and go back into their boxes.... (and hidden from the kids...)!

Re: Adam's striking knife response

Rob Lee

>Keep in mind too that Japanese craftsmen work in positions quite different from that of westerners... I'd presume that many of the tools designs reflect that.

Cheers -

Rob

Re: Up or down is not the issue

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Yes, that's true, and is pretty much what I do. It's amazing how long those Ginsu knives have lasted. :)

Pam

Re: Adam's striking knife response

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I hold my Knight Toolworks version just like a pencil. BTW, Kingshott demonstrates (on one of his videos) all these techniques using a V blade, and is exactly what I've learned to do.

Pam

There are similarities, too *LINK*

Wiley Horne--Glendora CA

>The classic Japanese marking knife has about the same geometry as the one Adam is discussing, except it does not feature an awl. The link below shows a variety of Japanese knives, with the classic marking knife is lower left in the picture, labelled 'ichoshiragaki'.

Odate discusses this knife in his book, calling it a 'shirabiki' (p. 29). He makes a similar point to Adam, about sliding the square to the knife, rather than the other way around.

There are a great variety of Japanese knives, as with all their edgetools, and we may note the similarities as well as the differences.

Wiley


Types of Japanese knives

Re: Adam's striking knife response

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Yeah, it would be difficult to hold Adam's striking knife with your feet. :)

Pam

Re: Adam's striking knife response

Dean J in MN

>I was pondering Adam's article and something hit me - how it didn't hit me sooner I don't know... I had arrived at many of the same conclusions or should I say techniques with my knife as Adam did. And after thinking and reading what the article said -- that many techniques were kept secret, I could not recall ever reading about putting my knife back in my knife mark and sliding my square back up against it. I use that technique for striking around stock to cut shoulders as well as transferring lengths from other parts or story sticks. What was fascinating to me was the fact I "discovered" that usage along with others, yet it was the tool itself teaching me...

So, like Adam, I have found that tools have a lot to teach us. (And I have a *lot* to learn.)

-Dean

Re: Adam's striking knife response

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Dean,

That's cool. And it takes a special kind of cat who's willing to almost clinically observe his tools. Its also cool to see your conclusions corroborated. I had that experience in Williamsburg.

Not to be too pushy,...and let me say I'm glad for and flattered by your interest and attention,.. The secrets I refer to aren't those things we can learn either by examining the finished product (altho that helps) or by peering in the window at the Master at work. No one can keep such secrets. What caused them to die and makes them difficult to ressurect is something a bit deeper. Understand that deeper bit, and I think we're on our way to a faster, more efficient way of working wood with hand tools.

Make no mistake about it, it's gonna take most of us to figure it out. It took the old Masters a few centuries. But the striking knife technique is just a metaphor.

Adam