dejected woodworker needs advice

Re: dejected woodworker needs advice

Morton Conway

>I was given similar feedback once...so I gave the stuff away.....turns out she wasn't quite that serious... It's never happened again.

Re: dejected woodworker needs advice

Paul Warnock

>Well, while disapointing, at least she is honest with you. I would prefer honest critique instead of having sunshine blown up my backside. I am fortunate in having a wife who is willing to give me an honest apraisel of my work. Sometimes I agree and sometimes I don't. Since we share the same taste in furniture It works well for us. Start small, make stuff for friends, kids etc. As your skill and confidence grow, others will notice and so will your wife.

ps. that's an excellent link

GolfSteve in Calgary

>I like how they've divided the furniture up into different style categories.

I've always been uncertain of the difference between art nouveau and art deco. Places like this help me to sort out my confusions.

Re: dejected woodworker needs advice

Glenn Madsen

>Initial reaction: Dude, that's cold!

But I'm a Californian, and 'old' here means maybe 1850's. And it's pretty rustic, usually.

Second reaction: She HAS been pretty good about the huge investment in tools, space and time. So, maybe order a couple (more) of Steve's planes, a set of carving chisels, and a trunkload of carving blanks, and set to work on some small, quiet pieces.

Want to make her REALLY happy? Tell her that most carver's you know work INDOORS, where it's warm. See how that one flys.

Re: dejected woodworker needs advice

Charles

>Build your masterpiece. You can do it. Take all the time you need. Rebuild parts if you have to. Do what you need to do to make it perfect.

Bring it in the house to show your wife.

After she takes a look then give it to your next door neighbor.

Spouse's should be more supportive. There, it's been said.

Nobody would begrudge you a little payback. Sometimes it's called for.

Success is ALWAYS the best revenge. Regardless of who you're dealing with. Why, you ask?

Because NOBODY can argue with success.

Re: dejected woodworker needs advice

Rod Cole

>Boy, I imagine that was tough.

I have had vaguely similar discussions with my wife. Not regarding furniture, but work on the house. She has no problem with quality, but with speed. She thinks we should just hire professionals and get it all done now. Unfortunately, while LOML is very smart in many ways, she has close to zero understanding of money, what things cost, or how long it will take to pay off, and how it will effect our retirement or kids school funds. If the bank will give it to us, why not take it?

And it is hard not to take it personally. I stand back and think, wow, good job Rod! And I hear, "It would have been nice to just to hire it out." Of course she never factors in the fact that it often takes forever to get a pro to actually show up.

So in that vein, I wonder, does she have any real idea what it takes to outfit an entire house with quality furniture of the sytle she likes? A little economic education might be in order. On the other hand, if you guys really have the money, maybe she has a point. I wonder from time to time if I'd stop making furniture for the house if I won the lottery and could go spend tons on super fine antiques?

But there is a good side to, and in my case I am trying to work it into my own mindset. If I hire out stuff that I can do, and might even be proud of doing, I can free up my time to do stuff I like even better! I am making progress. I no longer do my own car repair for example. Dw points out that together we have more than enough woodworking projects on my list to keep me busy and I like that best. And she is willing to buy me tools, and let me buy tools, and has talked about classes. So she has a point, even if I don't always like the way it is presented.

So the folks who say use this as an excuse to take some classes, to build up your shop have a good point too.

Just so long as she does not say, you are so lame I want you to shut the shop. Then you will just have to let her go. :)

The trick here is to find the silver lining. There will be one if you can look hard enough.

Good luck.

- Rod Cole

Re: dejected woodworker needs advice

Greg Sloop, Portland Oregon

>Excellent response! Thanks! (I'm not the one asking the g-parent question, just liked this response.)

Though it may be *very* hard looking.

Lot there to make me go hmmmm....

Good points though!

Greg

Choose carefully...

Greg Phillips, Berrien Springs, MI

>You've been given a lot of advice. IMO, some of it is good, and some it is bad.

The real issue may not be woodworking at all. It sounds as if you're feeling hurt by the things your wife said about your labors of love. You, like most of us, put your heart and soul into your woodworking. Now your wife says it isn't good enough for her. The easy thing to do is to head for the shop and never speak about it again. The harder thing, and IMO the better option, is to let your wife see your heart and really know how you are feeling. She may or may not be aware of how deeply she has hurt you.

Passive-aggressive responses (like some of the ones suggested above) seldom, if ever, make any positive contribution to a relationship.

Work on fixing the relationship and keeping the lines of communication open, and I'll bet the woodworking aspect of this problem will find its own solution.

Anyway, just some random thoughts. Best wishes as you consider your choices.

BTW, some people tend to look down on anything that is "homemade" unless it was made in someone else's home and purchased in a store. They tend to think that homemade things are for poor people. I guess it is all a matter of perspective. I came from a family where the highest value was always placed on "homemade" items. We're spending Christmas with my cousin's family. They've got money - lots of it. We're giving them homemade preserves and stuff like that. We'll see what they think. From where I sit, we love them enough not to run out and buy some meaningless gift that they don't really want or need. Like I said, it's all a matter of perspective.

Cheers,

Greg

My method

Roger Nixon

>When SWMBO isn't impressed with my stuff, I tell her I could do better if I had another tool or two. I'm still a lousy woodworker but I got a whole lotta tools!

Re: dejected woodworker needs advice

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Gee, what a bummer; but my singing voice was criticized so often when I was a kid that now, when I need to sing a song that I've written or arranged differently, I precede the event with "I know I can't sing, there's no need to tell me, blah, blah." It works, no one dares object. Of course, if someone had just said when I was young that it's largely a matter of training (I'm not tone deaf), I would have done it. Would have been lovely sitting around in bars playing guitar and singing for a living. :)

Anyhow, if your wife can afford to buy what she wants, or if you're willing and able to buy what she wants, let her go buy it. If it's good quality, you can always sell it when you do get good enough and have the time to make replacements. Meanwhile, if you're on the east coast, there are plenty of classes you can take on making period furniture. When her friends start praising your work, she'll be impressed.

OTOH, IME (a twenty year immigrant to Boston and Cape Cod from Virginia), there's nothing more tedious than a snooty yankee.

Pam

Re: honesty

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>You've only been at this a few years; why would you want to quit a hobby that you like? It is apparent to me that she didn't tell you her real opinion of your work earlier because she was afraid it would hurt you, as you now admit that it has. She was afraid that you would be really disappointed, and you are, and she was afraid it would hurt your ego, and it has. So obviously she cares for you very much. It is a good sign of a strong relationship if both members can be totally honest with each other, and still be happy together. It would damage your relationship considerably if you were to allow this to drastically affect your enjoyment of woodworking. I would instead face reality, and perhaps move in a different direction with my woodworking. Carving and inlaying are not really that hard to learn; you could focus on learning these things by working on smaller projects; much smaller than an armoire that would be a focal point of a room. Or you could simply make items to sell or give away to people who would want the style of furniture that you make. Or you could change your woodworking to do more woodturning or other things.

If you can afford it, I would take her shopping in an antique store and buy the armoire that she really likes; the relationship is worth more than any piece of furniture can ever be.

Dejected photographer responds

Gil

>Hi Mike, I was once dejected by a proffessor of mine. It wasn't just a proffessor, but he was someone that I personally idolized. A wealth of knowledge, and a great roll model.

During a critique he said " I see what you're doing, where you're going and what's going on with these prints and they are lame!" My first reaction was "Well F You then". I didn't actually say it but I said ok, and ducked my tail between my legs. I kept working through that body of work, spending days in the dark room, sometimes 14 hours in a row.

Well that body of work was done, I presented it at the final critique for the class. I got an astounding review from my fellow students and my proffessor was most impressed that I stuck through the body of work after his insults. Heck I even got a couple photo's published and won a small scholarship from it.

Moral of the story is, no matter who tells you they don't like your work, don't give up. You live in Mystic, sell some of your stuff at the shops downtown, and go over to the seaport, maybe you can learn some new tricks from an old salty sailor . If you want to get together and do some work sometime I'm almost always around, although I'm moving to Baltimore soon.

-Gil

Who dreams of becoming a furniture maker someday.

Re: dejected woodworker needs advice

Jonathan Peck - N.Y.

>Mike,

Sounds like your swmbo is sending you a pretty clear message. For one thing, sounds like she's in charge of the house, what goes in it, how it's decorated...inother words how it looks. She's clearly setting a boundry and protecting her environment which she's probably put alot of effort into.

I don't know how old your kids are, but just remember that the time you spend in the shop is time away from the family for which you are the partriarch. This can be difficult with a young family.

That said, I haven't attempted to build any furniture for the house, but rather things of utility for the house. Whenever she needs something she comes to me first to ask.."can you make this?" ie a custom closet interior, or a bookcase under the stair for storage and so on. My more ambitious projects in the planning have to do with the finished basement and stuff for the kids. Areas where the furniture is less formal and more functional and fun.

Good luck and try planning a date night where you make all of the arrangements and some fun activities with the kids. A happy swmbo is one that feels she comes first.

Regards

Jonathan

thanks everyone

Mike in Mystic

>Wow! I am so amazed at the outpouring of responses from everyone - I truly appreciate your words of advice and encouragement. Much of what was said, in one way or another, made me think a lot about my situation.

As for the woodworking - I'm definitely not going to give it up, but I think those that said to target my work a little differently, and focus on skill building rather than other things are right on track. I probably had a bit more of a gut reaction to this than I should have. It just kind of took me by surprise.

I guess it comes down to how I feel about my work and my progression in skills, rather than my wife. In my estimation I've come a long way, with even further to go - but I'm loving every minute of it.

The projects I find myself looking forward to these days are the stuff for my son (15 months old) and gifts for people other than my wife (sad, but true). I like the idea of working at my skills for a few years and then just surprising my wife with something really special, that incorporates a lot of things she might not think I'm capable of hehe. We'll see.

This weekend the plan is to make a rocking horse for my son for Christmas. And I am totally stoked about it. Here's some pictures of the last project I did for him, and I have no second thoughts or doubts about this one was received :)

Thanks again everyone, this really is a great community.

Mike

What he said ...

Clay C in Miami

>I pretty much agree with Moses. It may be better to be deflated in this way by some fairly brutal honesty, than to pour your zeal into something that won't be appreciated. Plus, there is a value simply in having your wife be happy.

First, though, you have a decision - would you rather she had maintained the white lie? That is, assuming she never liked your work and never will (this latter assumption is however highly unlikely, given your zeal), would you prefer that she had been supportive or truthful? A reasonable person could make either choice, as being supportive and being honest are both goals to which we all generally aspire, and she could only pick one.

If your answer is 'supportive,' then you have to tell her that, as it's the sort of thing that is bound to come up in many other contexts in a long and happy marriage. Just be honest yourself - tell her that, even though you know she doesn't like any of it, you would rather she had put your feelings ahead of hers - your desire to have your work in your home (and to believe she shared your wishes), versus her desire for a certain kind of furnishings.

If your answer is 'honest,' then you have every right to wish she felt differently, but not to feel bad about your work, or her (belated) discussion. If 'honest' is your answer, then decide what's more important to you - achieving something she will like and displaying it in your home, or doing the work that you prefer, and having it appreciated by other people. If the former, take some inlay classes and tell her that it's important to you to be able to make something she'll like, and you are going to work at it, but it'll be slow. (I think learning inlay would be an easier route than carving to achieve something that has the antique 'look,' though you can ultimately try both if you want to.) If the latter, then your only task is a very easy one - deciding who will be the lucky recipients of your largesse - friends, family, charity, whatever stirs your enthusiasm (after you make the world's best shop furnishings, of course)! (Don't I remember that you have a mom and dad who would love anything you could make for them?) Likely, either way, your skills will get to the point that you are able to make things she would like, the first may just get you there faster. And - once you are ABLE to make things she'll like, that doesn't mean you have to, or will even want to. By that time, you may find that you are having so much fun building things for other folks, or building in some certain style which she does not love, and that that enjoyment is more important than whether the pieces end up in your living room or not.

I do think that things for your son are somewhat different. Her desire to have the house look like she wants still has to involve compromise from everybody, and there's nothing wrong with letting her know that the emotional rewards you get from making things for your son are important to you. I would love to have anything my father had made.

Then (assuming finances allow), whether your answer would have been 'supportive' or 'honest,' let her get the things she wants otherwise for now. You'd rather fill the house with your work, she'd rather there was none, son's-room-only is maybe a reasonable middle ground?

One last thought (as if this isn't enough) - she can be hugely proud of the skills you have acquired in such a short time, without necessarily feeling you are currently able to build something that is to her personal taste. Don't assume that her assertion of her taste means she's not proud of your efforts and progress to date. (Unless she said so, in which case she doesn't deserve all this kind consideration, and I would encourage you to decorate the entire house with Nascar posters, centerfolds and neon beer signs, and insist they all stay.)

Lots of (probably also lame) advice, but your letter did make me think - I've been known to be insensitive when it comes to home furnishings too.

Good luck,

Clay

Restoration

Jonathan Peck - N.Y.

>Of course, there could also be alot that can be learned about woodworking techniques/joinery, furniture design and finishing if one were to get a bug for restoring antique furniture.

just a thought

Jonathan

Another suggestion

Jim Cosgrove

>I'm going to bite my tongue and not say what I think about your wife's attitude.

I thought the suggestion about classes was an excellent one. Along the same lines, what about having her buy some antiques pieces that she likes, but that need repair? Many woodworkers who build period furniture have learned a lot from repairing old pieces. You get to examine them closely and really learn from the original makers.

With this approach, she gets the style of furniture she wants, you get to learn new skills, and your house can be full of pieces you restored and are proud of.

Fabulous! Way to go, Mike.....

Barb Siddiqui - Wenatchee, WA

>

Re: well yes

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>A piece like that hand carved in the USA today would cost several multiples of 10K. But it is probably being sold for many times the original cost; a good indication of how good furniture increases in value over time, and crap goes to the landfill.

Feel the Love, WOW!

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native in FL. Exile :~(

>Mike,

I haven't read all the responses yet, but I wanted to reply anyhow simply because I just can't get over the amount of support and love that you have recieved. I feel your pain on your WW being rejected by the one you love, but as others have said there is plenty of others that wil appreciate it, and judging by the look of excitement on your sons face, (which by the way is priceless eh) he is one.

I see by your reply that you've gotten over your hurt and are ready to push on, and to that I say Bravo! Always remember that no matter how hard you try you can't please 'em all, coarse it does hurt when one of them is the one you love eh?

Ahhhhhhhhhh well, chin up laddie, chin up, can't WW worth a damn with your chin down.

I will say that your wife dosen't know how lucky that she is to have a husband who is interested in WW and no boozing it up, beating her up, chasing wild women, etc, etc. Don't feel alone tho, as mine dosen't either.

Todd O.

Mike, Congrats!!!

Gerry Doll

>Can't vouch for your WW skills, but being a good father puts all the rest in place.

Re: thanks everyone

Victor Parisian

>Now that is a fine wagon. Good looking kid too.

Hope to meet you in person some day at a class.

Victor - getting ready for bed when LOML asked about responses to your earlier posting.

Re: dejected woodworker needs advice

Tom Price

>She didn't like the wagon? The wagon is really cool. Excellent job there.

In a way, and as others have said, you have been freed to make whatever you want. It's just that want you currently want to make is furniture for your home. But now you have time to spend those quiet hours at the bench learning new skills. So make things for people that will appeciate them.

Myself, I'm not really drawn to making furniture for the house as we have about all we need and not much room left. I putz around in my shop, cleaning and tuning antique tools and making musical intruments (hammer and mountain dulcimers). I hate honey-do assignments and really have problems completing them as a result.

So take the courses you want, make the stuff you want, fix up your shop, whatever. But don't give up a hobby that you really enjoy and have just gotten a ways up the learning curve on. You'll get better. I remember a neighbor of my graduate advisor at Ohio State. This guy didn't take up woodworking for real until he had retired. He made some amazing stuff after a few years learning the craft - really cool colonial stuff with well done turnings, chairs, joint stools, etc.

Shoot, go to one of the chair workshops available and start making country windsors for friends or for sale (just as an example). Or Pennsylvania spice cabinets, whatever. Keep on learning and tell your wife to go find some antiques, if that's what she wants.

- Tom

Could be worse, Mike.

Andrew F in Australia

>She could be looking for something from Victorian times that looks like these:

If she did, then I'm sure that most of us would question the "aesthetic appeal"

CHeers,

Andrew

Re: thanks everyone

Skip in Falls Church

>My wife insisted that I tell you that she thinks the wagon is beautiful. (I think it looks darn good myself.) She went on and on about it, how nicely made it is, the appropriateness of the finish until she finally used the N(orm) word. :)

Skip