Lee Valley froe

Re: Lee Valley froe

Alan Hamilton

>Jack,

If my rememberer is working better than my forgetter today (no guarantees) Saint Roy of Underhill writes about this in one of his Woodwright's Shop books. Again relying on my memory ("ya pays yer munny and ya takes yer chances") to avoid splitting the handle--and to get a good, snug fit--he drills a pilot hole, heats the entire tang and then inserts it through the handle, letting the hot metal burn out the wood, reheating the tang if it's necessary, and thus gets a perfect fit.

If I'm wrong, I'm certain others will correct me and will have much better ideas.

Alan

Re: Lee Valley froe

Mike Lietzow

>Well Alan, I don't think your forgetter is a problem but your rememberer might be on siesta since I don't think Jack's froe has a tang. That is, of course, assuming that my rememberer is on the job now.

Cheers,

Mike

Re: Lee Valley froe

Jack Guzman from Maine

>I believe Roy was talking about inserting a tang into a handle on that one. The Froe has an eye.You insert the handle into the eye simlar to handling an axe. I do appreciate the effort though.--Jack

Re: Lee Valley froe

Bob Hutchins in central Texas

>Howdy Jack,

Don't know about the Lee Valley froe but one I bought years ago, when St. Roy had just started his show, gives me problems with the handle. I think I got it from Brookstone. The handle fits into a round hole formed by bending the steel when the tool was made. The problem is that striking the back of the blade sets up enough vibration to loosen the handle. I've tried cutting the handle down and refitting it and wedging the end but it still works loose. My next step will be to make a new handle from a piece of pecan or oak (no hickory 'round here).

If anyone has a solution to this problem, I'd love to hear it, too.

BobH

Re: Lee Valley froe

Jack Guzman from Maine

>If I don't hear any reason why not to before I get around to it,I'm going to heat it on.Just have to remember who has a set of torches I can use in the neighborhood. I'll let you know how it works.It worked for putting the tire on a wagon wheel,same principle.---Jack

Re: Lee Valley froe

Dale Stansbery

>I just happened to read an article in Foxfire #5 the other night on forging and putting a handle in a froe. There's had a tapered eye, the larger end on the sharp side of the froe. The process to put the handle in was to put the froe in a vise upside down, large end of the eye up. Then put the small diameter end of the handle in first, and drive it in to the eye. They say nothing about doing it gently. Then drive a wedge in place. Hope this helps.

Re: Lee Valley froe

Dale Stansbery

>Jack, I just posted a process out of Foxfire 5. If the eye is tapered, there should be no reason to heat it

Re: Lee Valley froe

Jack Guzman from Maine

>Yes,it helps.I'm a little nervous about putting heat to a new tool. Even one as crude as a froe.I guess the worst that can happen is the handle will bust from pounding but I'll try it.

I have a couple foxfires but not that one.---Jack

Re: Lee Valley froe

joel

>if your froe has a tapered eye, and the handle has a matching taper there should be no reason to use a wedge too - at least the ones I have don't seem to need it.

yes and yes

Jack Guzman from Maine

>

Re: Lee Valley froe

Roger Bell

>Shake roofs have been typical in the rural parts of this area for 150 years and the use of the froe remains common even today with store-bought shakes being widely available. Almost every farmer has one. I have always placed the handle in the froe (with a tapered eye) loosely, as you would a pick or mattock handle and tap the handle end to set it. This is usually the way it is done around here. It is handy to have it this way for easy storage and transport.

Considering how the froe is used, it is not (IMO) necessary to get a "tight" fit at all. The handle is a lever...nothing more. The use of wedges seems superflous. If you are worried about the handle slipping back thru the eye (and I wouldnt be...since it is not big deal if it does), you can always place a small screw into the handle..

The handle can extend past the eye an inch or so and not affect the performance a whit. Be sure to make yourself a nice stout round mallet for striking.

Shave the handle and a question

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Jack,

Don't heat your froe. You'll probably ruin it.

Can anybody tell me how to properly use a froe?

I'm pretty sure froes ain't wedges and shouldn't be beaten like Todd's bad dogs. I think they are more like levers used to control a split.

Pretty sure that means a loose handle is acceptable and that might change things for Jack.

I was working on some guidelines for splitting for the museum after Dave cut himself (won't be the last time one of us gets cuts). But I'm hesistating because I'm not sure my information is accurate.

Anybody?

Adam

P.S. Happy labor day to everybody in the US.

Foxfire Books

Jorge Casta�eda

>Adam

in the Foxfire book there is an explanation of how to use it and it is illustrated pictures, around here the old timers did not attach the handle permanently to the froe for easy storage; as you said it is used to control the travel of the split. The split may have been started with an axe or a wedge, and the froe was hit wth a maul made ot of a piece of a branch.

The Foxfire Book

Anchor Press ! Doubleday

Garden City, New York

From the early seventies, check your library or try Amazon

There were 3 books, if I remember correctly it was on the first book.

Take care

Jorge

Adam, you *MUST* buy... *LINK*

Christopher Fitch @ Memphis

>Drew Langsner's The Chairmaker's Workshop

Langsner covers a number of tools including Froes, Gluts (great name), Inshaves, Spokeshaves, Drawknives, etc.

Even if you probably won't make Windsor or Post-and-Rung chairs, it's still a great read.


The Chairmaker's Workshop: Handcrafting Windsor an

By the way...

Christopher Fitch @ Memphis

>Froe's are struck in use according to Langsner.

Here's some details from his book:

"Riving is a controlled method of splitting wood with hand tools. You rive out parts as close as you dare to the actual size of your chair parts. For riving you need a froe and froe club. The froe is a splitting tool that consists of a straight double-bevel blade with a perpendicular round wooden handle secured at one end by a ferrule."

Basically a froe club is a wooden maul that is made from a sapling or straight limb from a tree.

Also, his book is a tool maker's dream. He gives instructions and some diagrams on making:

- Gluts, Mauls, and Froe Clubs

- Travisher

- Tapering Plane

- Scratch beader

- Turning saw

- Bevel gauge

- Spindle Scraper

- Steamer for bending

Even if I never make a chair, his book is still a load of great information.

answers

Jack Guzman from Maine

>All this discussion is what I was hoping for. I have go do a job today but I'll probably figure this out tomorrow.I hear that riven wood is ideal for alot of projects so I got the froe to explore that. Thanks for all the input.---Jack

Adam, I hope that Mr Healy...

Dave Anderson Chester,NH

>didn't do himself too badly. Say hello to him for me.

Re: Froe handle *LINK*

William Duffield on the Cohansey

>I hope Silent Dave's wound is not serious, and he recovers in time for woodworking demos at next weekend's big Colonial Crossroads event at Pennsbury Manor.

How to use the froe

Roger Bell

>You place the froe's blade on the end grain of a cedar shake bolt, offset from the bolt's face to the desired thickness of the shake. Imagine splitting kindling. Then you whack the back of the froe blade with the mallet until the blade penetrates the bolt for the full thickness of the froe blade and creates a big crack in the bolt suitable for splitting off a shake. Then you use the handle as a lever and split off the shake from the bolt. With western red cedar, the split shake zings right off the bolt. Then you do another, and another, and another, and you keep splitting up bolts until you get enough shakes. (Remember...shingles are sawn, and somewhat smooth.... shakes are split, rougher and thicker). Nothing complex....really. You can teach an inattentive teenager how to do it in about five minutes. As simple as simple gets.

Using the froe to rive wood into planks is a similar process, although you would start out splitting with wedges and gluts to reduce the tree trunk into something suitably sized for final processing by the froe. I dont have any experience with anything other than cedar, which I have split into shakes for roofs and into thick primitive decking for bridges and puncheon in wilderness areas. But I would imagine that the same principles would apply to any wood.

I wouldnt recommend messing around with heating the eye of the froe, etc, just make the handle fit well enough.

Around here in conifer country we cut the biggest vine maple branch we can find and carve down a handle on one end to make the mallet. It is really more like a club. Keep it primitive. When it wears out we get another one. Any reasonably dense wood will do fine.

Remember not to hit the froe with steel.

Re: Using a Froe

Jim Crammond in Monroe, Mi

>Adam and other Riving Challenged Centrailians,

First, I agree wholeheartedly with Christopher about Drew Langsner's book "The Chairmaker's Workshop". It contains a wealth of information and, by far, it does the best job of explaining woodworking techniques of any book I've read.

Second, I don't consider myself an expert because I haven't done much riving, but here is my experience. The first step is to split your log into halves then quarters using wedges and a sledgehammer. Straight grained woods such as oak, ash and hickory split the best, cherry and maple split ok but are not as predictable. Riving a 30" log is also easier than splitting a 60" log. When you have the log quartered, determine the size of the pieces that you would like to rive. Draw lines on one of the ends roughly corresponding to the size of pieces you want remembering that you must always split the piece in half to keep the split running reasonably straight.

Now the riving starts. Score a line along one of the centerlines you have drawn using an ax and a mallet. The froe is not sharp, so an ax is used to start the split, especially on larger pieces. With the froe handle in your left hand(if you are right handed) place the blade of the froe in the mark you scored keeping the handle far enough away from the log so your fingers clear the log if the piece splits of in one whack. Hit the blade of the froe with the mallet until the piece starts to split off. The split tends to run towards the thinner side of the piece which you can control somewhat by turning the log. I.e, you always pull the handle of the froe to you, if the split is running towards you, turn the piece so the thicker side is towards you and use your right hand to pull the handle of the froe towards yourself.

There is a considerable amount of waste riving wood, but it is a fast way to rough out stock and you are able to take advantage of the maximum strength of the wood because there is no grain runout.

Jim Crammond

Re: Lee Valley froe

Alan Hamilton

>Good Grief!!

My eyesight is very poor, but I didn't realize it is so poor that it would change 'froe' into 'drawknife'.

Please disregard everything I wrote about a handle for a froe...but if you ever get a drawknife...

Alan, always glad to provide comic relief--even if I didn't intend to.

Froe in Use *LINK*

Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, Florida

>FWIW, I found this page on the web showing a fellow using a froe. Look at the third photo. Note the rather rustic mallet!


Holmes Woodwork Chair Construction

final on the handle

Jack Guzman from Maine

>I put the blade in a vise,whacked it three times with a heavy maple mallet. The handle was a little thicker in the middle. Once it was forced past that area the handle just slid into place. A near perfect fit,no gaps on either end.

So much for all the hoopla.Made for a good thread though.Thanks all.---Jack

Re: final on the handle

Todd O. Cronkhite Native of Mainet

>Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh, the ol' "Use a bigger hammer" trick eh? I should of known 99.

Alrighty than Jack,now that you've handle to froe the real fun begins eh? I have a old froe, use it for more of a dicer that anything else. Have yet to actually rive a log, but I have a few waiting go a go. Been meaning to get to them for quite some time now. Wonder how they'll rive now that they're a bit dry?

So many things, so little time.

Todd O.