The way we treat each other(OT,long)

Re: The way we treat each other(OT,long)

David Miller from Iowa

>Interesting rant. Cause and effect, right and wrong, meddlesome vs.helpful. If it were easy to decide the world would be a much different place.

Even though I�m not religious, I generally use the Golden Rule - but it doesn�t always work. I was gassing up my car the other day and I looked across the island and saw another guy gassing up his car with a lit cigarette in his mouth. I presumed it just never occurred to him that it was not a recommended approach and mentioned to him, I thought nicely, that maybe he was putting himself in danger. Well, the fellow apparently had some issues and addressed me with a flair I personally would reserve for Dennis Kozlowski who ravaged my 401(k) to the tune of $200,000 (another right vs. wrong rant topic).

Anyway, no answers here, just more commiseration.

David

Re: The way we treat each other(OT,long)

Charles

>I think the only way you could have prevented this was for you to have bought all the land ajoining the cove. At a lake near me, I have seen 500,000 homes built in one lot and a trailer house put on the next lot. This was due to a lack of zoning. I understand your rant, my neighbors aren't perfect. You remind me of early settlers, if someone was an hour horse ride from them, it was too close. Unless you buy the land you have to go with whatever moves in. If you have a housing authority, complain.

If only......................

Frank Mutchler

>I woulda or I coulda or I shoulda. I guess hind sight is always 20/20. The sentiment of your post seems to make a lot of sense. As I thought about it I decided that there is another viewpoint. In a free society we all agree to live, to varying degrees, with the consequences of the choices of others. There are a number of other approaches to social organization (socialism, facism, communisim, etc.) that are based upon the principle that a perfectly ordered society can be planned, legislated, and administered in such a way that Utopia (as envisioned by the enlightened few) will burst forth in pretty short order.

People who are illegally taken advantage of in business dealings have recourse. Folks who allow variances to existing covenants usually realize that they are setting a precedent for future variances. In order to maintain my sanity and to continue living freely I memorized the 11th commandment: �Thou shalt not should on thyself!�

Bob, looks to me like you had an idyllic little piece of heaven in your cove���for a while anyway. It�s too bad that it�s changing but then again, we all are���..and none of us is going to be here all that long anyway. What would I do? When my tolerance level was reached I�d sell and find a new and better place.

Re: The way we treat each other(OT,long)

Ernie Miller Topeka

>I guess you should have bought the lot and left it empty. That is what I wish I would have done to the ones across the street from me. I realy can't answer you question but some time it is best to get involved. opr is it hind sight is 20/20

Re: The way we treat each other(OT,long)

WoodburnBob

>Not so much off-top or long, Bob. Kind of refreshing actually.

It's not just a regional or neighorhood circumstance. It's certainly not unique to you. I identify with everything you said.

I'd say you've tapped into central themes of the human condition, territoriality, immigration, erosion of a sense of security, dread of the unknown and uncertain. Welcome to progress and growth.

Congratulate yourself on having the intelligence and wisdom to analyse what troubles you, rather than charging out on a crusade of enlightenment and persuassion for your fellow man. Most people seem to be wired up to act rather than think.

One of the most liberating lessons I've learned in the last ten years is that no one is really dying to know what I think about anything, and most would feel much better about me if I just smiled and seemed agreeable. Who can blame them, like me they want to be left alone to make their own mistakes, thank you very much, no matter what it costs them.

Think of me even now simply smiling, nodding my head and being agreeable. Everything will pass soon enough...including you and me.

Re: The way we treat each other(OT,long)

dave caudill

>The question begs many different answers and there is no one answer or no correct answer. That helped huh!?

But the latter part of your question seems to have been missed by most who responded. I think it is an opportunity for us to educate and provide safeguards to others here. That is my sense of community which I think is sorely missing in today's society. My back ground is in urban geogpraphy and therefore I'm a student of the human condition in the urban environment. I can tell you things have changed a lot over the last several decades and much of that is our sense of community and of being a good neighbor. Some see a neighbors suggestions as being nosy others as see it as helpful and appreciate the input. I take the helpful route and have not suffered too greatly for it. I regret it much more when I fail to help or warn someone of a bad siuation then when I do and not get the response I hoped for.

Once in a while you do have to stick your neck out there and to me that just demonstrates character. There is too much of whats in it for me in todays society rather than hey I can help or better yet want to help. Many of us have our cell phone, internet access, privacy fence and 150 channels on the TV and have tuned out of society. In my opinion we all suffer because of this.

So in my opinion by all means warn me of bad products, shoddy service, price gouging as I want to know. And in fact can not understan why someone would stand back and watch me get taken when they could have warned me. Yes we all need to learn a lesson now and then but the same affect can be had by one of us learning the hard way and the rest of us learning from that individual. This is a community of sorts and I for one hope we are able to act as such rather than standing back while one of our own takes a beating.

Dave

Re: The way we treat each other(OT,long)

Todd O. Cronkhite Native of Maine

>Dunno what to tell you Bob, it's such a complex issue isn't it. Times and things changed to the point where you/we are hesitant to say anything to folks we don't know I guess mostly from fear of being sued. suppose you had said something to the folks who hird the contractor alonfg the lines of "Watch out for him,in my opinion he's a shyster", and word got back to him that you said that, with todays legal system he'd had you in court on grounds of slander. So, you say nothing, the folks get ripped off, they have to rent out their place to who knows how just to be able to keep it, and poof, you quiet little cove is turned into a disaster area. I blame the courts for alot of this as they hear some down right sily cases instead of laughing them out of court. Case it point, there was a lady who put a cup of coffee that she bought from a fast food chain drive thru between her legs, it spilled, she got burned, she sued the chain and WON! You know the story I'm sure. Yeah, thru her own stupidity the got hurt, and dang if some lawyer didn't take it to court and win the case. Unbelieveable. After that case it seems that more an more of this type of stupid case was made as I'm sure the thought process was "why not, got nothing to lose". The lawyers started advertising "No payment unless we win", which in effect translates into "Bring you're obsurd case to me and we'll take it to court since what they heck, we've got everything to gain".

The Declaration of Independence was written based on Common Sense, but common sense is no longer common, so we have to watch our selfs so closely that we no longer do or say things that we know are to be right out of fear of getting into trouble. As a result of this, society as a whole here in the U.S. is going straight into the toilet. Very scary.

As to your current situation you have two choices, do nothing and deal with whatever comes along, or raise the BS Flag. I'd say raise the flag, speak to these folks, make them realize that they got ripped off and that by goodness they need to stand up for themselves and and fight back against this contractor. Call the local newspaper as a Human Interest story and get this contractors exposed for what he is would make for a good start. Next Town Meeting would be a good place to speak on the subject as well.

I dunno about the rest of you all, but I'm getting tired of the way things are going these days. It's sickening. Oh gee, a few don't want prayer in school, so instead of telling them to just not participate, simply take it away from everybody so as not to offend the few. what ever happened to the Majority Rules concept? Oh, thats right, not enough money in it for the lawyers.

Better get off the soapbox. I could go on and on but won't out of respect to Ellis and Crew.

Good Luck Bob and be careful in what you say, and how you say it alright.

Todd O.

Re: The way we treat each other(OT,long)

Aaron Cunningham

>Todd,

Pretty much agree with you across the board.

As an interesting point though, read what actually happened in the McDonalds case. She won for a reason. And a good one as far as I'm concerned.

Now the guys who sued about no warning labels telling them not to pick up the lawnmower when it was running, on the other hand...

Aaron

Missing Link, sorry... *LINK*

Aaron Cunningham

>Dadburn it, forgot the link...


MCFacts...

Re: The way we treat each other(OT,long)

Jim in Burlington Ontario

>Sometimes you doomed if you do and doomed if you don't so if your not going to have to see them in the summer why didn't you object? Nothing worse then renters.

I don't agree Aaron

Todd O. Cronkhite Native of Maine

>Certainly don't won't to start a whizzing contest, but my take on the subject is this: How much basic intelligence do you need to be to forsee the problems/consequences that could result from placing a hot liquid that is in a flimsy cup between your legs while driving? I understand that the lady did get some serious injury, but it was a result of HER actions, not McDonalds. Seems to me a little of common sense on her part would of gone along way eh? How'd she ever get to the age of 81 is beyond me.

People would fuss either way, I can see it now: I'm suing X Corp because I got a cup of coffee that wasn't warm/hot to my liking and I feel violated. Or: I'm suing X Corp because while eating their Freedom Fries while driving I stabbed my self in the eye with one because it was too long, therefore all my injuries and damage to myself and to the others that was caused as a result of my tempory vision impairment is the fault of X Corp.

The label that these folks need to put on their containers is : Products of this container are not intended to be consumed while doing any other activity other than eating.

Bottom line in my opinion is that folks simply need to be responible for their own actions.

Todd O.

A lesson learned the hard way....

Bill Tindall, E. TN

>After many years of trying I have concluded that few people really want advice and fewer still want advice that goes contrary to what they have already decided. So, it is very doubtful that you could have done anything to alter the course of events, given the participants. At least you are still on good terms with them, a situation that might be different if you had been less accomodating. As long as you are on good terms you still may have some influence on the course of future events.

The sort of person that willingly and actively seeks advise in advance of a decision usually aquires the skills and knowledge to avoid getting taken most of the time. And then there are the others that can't/won't be helped.

Re: The way we treat each other(OT,long)

Greg Sloop

>Heck, here's one, though my interest didn't require much altruism.

One of my clients - a car dealership - has signed a contract with a web marketing firm. (They got a load of BS in the sales presentation, but hopefully 40% of it works as advertised and the client will do well enough...)

That aside, I'm responsible for technical issues for their local network and for professional related consulting issues.

The one technical detail that stuck in the craw of the web marketing firm was that I insisted on making the client (our common client) aware of the importance of maintaining DNS outside of the relationship with the web marketing firm.

They kept insisting that they must have total DNS control, when they didn't technically need it, and they'd likely provide lousier and less reliable service.

I kept feeling as though I was jeopardizing my relationship with the client - cause he wanted to get things going with this firm and I was "dragging my feet" - and for what? I don't make any substantial money off of DNS - other than a few bucks when changes are required. In relative terms, a nickel here or there.

After feeling like a heel for a while, I called the client and cc'd him on an email describing my objections. I expected to be told "butt out and do what they want" or worse.

What I got was a "kudo's - you really are looking out for us! Thanks!"

I was blown away!

The happy end to the story was that the web marketing firm saw they didn't have and good reason to argue and they were jeopardizing their deal and gave up.

The end result is that I did win a bit, but the client won more. I'll obviously get some benefit from that - but having a client who is well served will ultimately keep me happy too.

Now, I'm not saying you made the wrong call by not talking to your neighbors...sometimes it's so hard to know what's prudent and what's too nosy.

In our family the saying goes..."We can say anything about any subject we want - give advice etc. The recipient though, has the ultimate say in how much credence they give your advice. Give it once and be quiet."

It doesn't work everywhere, as some are less tolerant of someone "sticking their fingers in someone else�s pie" but it does often work well here.

Being a opinionated guy, I perhaps am too eager to give "advice." But I do try to do it when it matters and when it's really for the benefit of the other party, not just some hidden benefit for me. A good judge is my motivation. If I'm really motivated to help myself, then it's probably a dumb move. But if it really is to help someone else first, then even if not received with good grace, makes me know I've done the best moral duty I could.

(As an aside, perhaps you could help the neighbor run an identity theft scam on the contractor to recoup some of their costs? *grin*)

Best wishes, and my thought of sympathy!

Greg

Re: The way we treat each other(OT,long)

Greg Sloop

>There was a [just kidding] in angle brackets after the identity theft crack - but WC must strip anything in angled brackets as HTML code related.

Just so it's clear - the identity theft thing sounds like a satisfying "touche'" but obviously is a bad idea plagued with bad problems.

For the humor impared...

It was a joke

Greg

Re: I don't agree Aaron

Dean Burke - Yakima, WA

>Bottom line in my opinion is that folks simply need to be responible for their own actions.

This coffee thing is a well known bugaboo case, often quoted by those who think that all of us need to be responsible; but God forbid that McDonald's, et al, be responsible for their actions.

Dean

Re: The way we treat each other(OT,long)

Dean Burke - Yakima, WA

>Sometimes renters are actually better than the owners. Sometimes they become the owners. Sometimes they're owners between home ownership.

Dean

Re: The way we treat each other(OT,long)

Dan Donaldson

>Since html is enabled on the posts, you cannot use the angle brackets as characters or the browser will attempt to decode it as html and it is uncertain what will happen. The only way to show them is to use the control codes, and then do not do a preview;-) (or the browser will turn them right back into characters, which will then bomb;-))

depending on what is in the brackets, you can get some very strange results at times.

Re: The way we treat each other(OT,long)

Jack Guzman from Maine

>Hi Bob,

I think sometimes it's right to warn people,but like alot of things it's not black and white.Every situation has a different response.You gotta trust your instincts.

As far as the invasion of your paradise,I don't think you could have stopped that. It's inevitable. We're spreading out. I used to have the only house on a 5 mile stretch,now we have traffic,trash and all the rest that comes with civilization. You can still find paradises further out but people will follow eventually.I finally made peace with it cause I don't want to move no more. I like it here.I just do my best to be a good neighbor and hope others will get it and do the same.---Jack

Re: The way we treat each other(OT,long)

Todd Hughes

>Heres what I think.... Number one I don't think it is my job to look out for other people esp. when there is nothing in it for me and esp. when it could be to my loss to do so and the people ain't even asking for your help.If your neighbors had asked you about what contractor to use i would have given them a name of sombody you liked but otherwise I would have kept my nose out of it esp. after this guy got the job.Isn't my concern if they are slow heads and got took.Other then in Disney Films the natural law is that rabbets get ate by foxes and slow heads get took. The augument that now because they got took you have to live next to renters I don't get, the people that got took sound like idiots that can't take care of them selves and in my experance these type of people can be trouble to...maybe the renters won't be as bad.Maybe they will have to sell the place and better people will buy it, but really who cares it's not your place or problim.I think once you stick your nose into it and start talking bad about people then that can cause those people to stick thier nose in your bussiness and run your name down and again for what? ..

I do think if the contractor messed up your road he should fix it and this IS your bussiness to make him do so.I sure wouldn't fix it was his fault and by you fixing it you are just encouraging his behaviour.

I guess as to new people moving in and ruining the good thing you have I imagine we all want to be the last one in the door and don't think it is too bad when WE moved in it's just that next guy that will be messing things up.....Todd

Re: I don't agree Aaron

Todd O. Cronkhite Native of Maine

>Had anybody recieved injuries to the mouth/throat area due to excessivly hoty liquid than I could see being upset and perhaps asking for damages. However, when it comes to burnt genatailia I have no sympathy as the liquid was not intended to be in that area unless of coarse this area IS her alternate mouth. ;~)

I imagine the reason that this case keeps coming up as reference is because it is just so ridiculous, and as a result of this case dumder and dumber cases have been taken to court, and now that these idiot cases are allowed in court we have to be very careful about what we do/say, or don't do/say in order to protect ourselves.

I just cannot fathom why folks could possibly feel that this is the fault of McDonalds. Isn't it a law that you aren't suppose to be eating/drinking while driving in the first place? I know it was in my Drivers Training Manual not to do so while driving. Drive-thrus are for the purpose of getting your fat-burger without getting out of your vehicle and to be taken to your destination to be consumed and not consumed while driving. Sure, we all do it, myself as well from time to time, but that don't make it right.

I don't even like McDonalds, but in this case I don't think that they were at fault.

Todd O.

OT - Re: I don't agree Aaron

Dean Burke - Yakima, WA

>On the face of it, when the case is not seriously presented in full, it does seem ridiculous, which is why it's such an easy target. But, when presented in full, it is not ridiculous.

Besides, there is a pretrial vetting of every single case; so these "dumber and dumber" cases never get heard. And McDonald's certainly encourages you to eat, drink and drive, all at the same time. You can't deny that. Have you read the transcipt yet? You do know about the thousands of complaints?

Dean

Re: The way we treat each other(OT,long)

Rob in Kansas

>"Now the guys who sued about no warning labels telling them not to pick up the lawnmower when it was running, on the other hand... "

Or lack there of!

I have a tendency to agree that there are too many people that will not take responsibilty for their own actions.

One of the original lawsuits aginst general aviation manufactures was with a Piper Cub. I'm sure many of you have seen this classic tail dragger from the 30's. The story as I understand it was that the owner of a private airport and tennet had a dissagrement so the owner parked a vehicle in the middle of the runway to close it. Now the Cub pilot decides he can take off in the reduced amount of space and doesn't make it, killing himself. In additon to the propery owner the widow sued Piper for the aircraft not having enough visability over the nose to see the truck blocking the runway as he was taking off...and won!!! To me it's Darwin's theory in practice, the smart person would not have tried it!

Re: The way we treat each other(OT,long)

Dean Burke - Yakima, WA

>And did the airport owner take responsibility for his actions? I mean, how stupid is it to leave a car parked in the middle of the runway. Two wrongs do not make a right. They were both incredibly stupid. One lost his life. Another lost a car and a lot of money.

Dean

Re: The way we treat each other(OT,long)

Todd O. Cronkhite Native of Maine

>Seems to me that the pilot was in error by failing to ensure that the runway was clear before going on it. Coarse, I'm not a pilot, but it seems to me that would be a basic common sense, kinda' like looking both ways before walking across the street. Curious as to what year did this case happen?

Other than what you linked, I haven't read any transcript. Yes, I did read that there where 700 other cases, and that only tells me that there are at least 700 more stupid people.

I'm not saying that Mc'D's shouldn't of taken measures to lower the temp of their coffee in an effort to prevent accidental burns. Accidents happen, such as a child tipping over a coffee cup and getting burned, but to held accountable because somebody chose to put it between their legs whie driving is unfair in my opinion.

Even if McD's does "encourage" you to drive while eating and drinking that is no excuse. Everybody knows it's wrong, and THEY are the ones that choose to do it, and by doing so should be held accountable for the consequenses of their decision.

Dean,obviously we are on opposite sides of the fence on this issue, so I guess we'll have to just agree to disagree, but I feel that this particular case was the beginning of the reason that we now treat others differently.

I see a sad end coming to this once Great Country. :~(

T.O.