Bench Hold Down ???

Re: Bench Hold Down ???

Garrett in Victoria BC CA

>Hi Randal

Do you have a website for the Emmert Vise clone?

TIA, Garrett

Re: Bench Hold Down ???

joel

>the standard run of the mill under 5 buck holdfasts work fine. THey aren't as good as a forged one but they work and you can't beat the price. Regular holdfasts work 10 times faster than any screwed holddown. (I have a few of the screwed type and never use them).

Re: Bench Hold Down ???

Davy

>A seller on e-bay called sell2all is selling the big Record holdfasts for dirt cheap. I can't get the cheap holdfasts from Woodcraft to work on my bench. Maybe it's too thick? (Laminated 2x4 benchtop.)

Re: Bench Hold Down ???

joel

>I looked at ebay - personlly I don't deal with sellers who can't be bothered to take a decent picture of their product but I find screwdown holdfasts to be totally counter productive. (also I'm not sure but it is possible that the record holdfast uses a recessed metal socket.

In any event - a thick bench is good - the pine top might be too soft for a regular holdfast but I'm not sure - they all use a 3/4" hole.

if regular holdfasts won't work for your and the Record needs a metal socket and the socket comes with the ebay one - I think it's a poor holdfast but certainly better than none.

Re: Bench Hold Down ??? *LINK*

David Barnett

>Jorgensen makes a line of holdfasts, and there may still be a few Record holdfasts out there. I have no experience with either brand as they require at least semi-permanent mounting. As Joel said, the cast ones are okay for the money, although they're often too easy to move radially and can snap (hey, they're cheap, though).

My favorite is the one you don't care for; the LV model. They are pricey, but if you ever hold one up close and personal you'll see why. They are solid, rugged and nicely made tools. Also, while I understand your scepticism about zinc, these are ZA-12 (zinc-aluminum), a hypereutectic alloy used not only for its excellent casting properties, but for its exceptional strength and toughness. It outlasts many of the most durable bearing metals and applications and is often chosen as a superior substitute for cast iron. One of these on a bench is formidable. Two are downright awesome. They're invaluable when used for gluing, too (I tipped mine with leather).


Jorgensen hold-down clamps

Re: Bench Hold Down ???

dennis mcdonaugh

>here's a couple at woodworkers supply. I use them on a 3" thick pine top with 3/4" dog holes. I have a seperate row of holes for the holdfast as they distort the hole after repeated use and the bench dogs won't hold in the warped hole.

http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=907-400

Agree

Wiley Horne--Glendora CA

>No argument with Joel about the merits of the hammered type. However, that LV clamp is a fine piece of engineering. I use two of em on the bench apron (not the top), where they perform a variety of clamping duties, including holding the off-end of boards being edge jointed. I like them because you can apply progressive pressure and absolutely not mar the work. For those who haven't seen them, the shanks are milled in a fish-scale pattern which means that they get a grip 100% of the time, and do not slip.

Wiley

Re: Agree

joel

>no real complaint about the LV holddown but I find it doesn't hold against lateral force any better than a hammered holdfast and its much slower to tighten. Also the thread on the side which is supposed to help the grip - started to chew up the holds in my bench. But my real complaint - and the only one that important is just tightening it down is slow.

For a really, really fine traditional holdfast Stephen Shepherd sells forged ones that are a treat. less expensive than the LV holdfast and they hold a treat.

Emmert Clone Link

Randal Todd

>Sir,

I bought mine at Highland Hardware in Atlanta. They seem to be $20 cheaper than some of the catalog outfits. Highland also ships, so ordering won't be a problem. Wish I could say the clones are great, but mine is still living in its box awaiting completion of my bench... At any rate, the site is below.

www.highlandhardware.com

Good folks to deal with.

Randy Todd, Dallas GA

Joel, Sell an LV holdfast??

Randal Todd

>Joel,

Since the opinions are mixed, and you seem not to like your LV, would you consider selling. If so, please drop me a line at: Randaltodd@hotmail.com

Thanks,

Randy in Dallas GA

For speed...

David Barnett

>...a mallet set & released holdfast is the winner, and the truly forged holdfast with a bit of spring to it beats those cast holdfast-shaped-objects, anyday. But for my style of working and the things I ask my LV holdfasts to do, such as holding fixtures in place against considerable forces (often for days), nothing comes close, in my humble opinion.

Really, though, unless you constantly tap and shift, working as fast as an early joiner who made his living with handtools alone, the LV isn't all that slow. And if you don't have good quality holdfasts and a good fit for them, you could spend at least as much time trying to set them 'just so'. Which pretty much leads to the usual conclusion where more than one type of tool can be had: buy both!

Re: Bench Hold Down ???

William Duffield on the Cohansey

>I have a couple of the cheap cast ones I got from Joel. They work good in 2-¹/₄" thick red oak. Like most tools, they are a kit, and I needed to sand off most of the slippery paint and rough up the shafts a bit. I also have other home-made hold downs that have threaded attachments. There is no comparison when utility is considered. The old fashioned ones are the right way to go, if you have made your bench thick enough and hard enough.

Yellow pine is a horse of a different feather. If you have managed to obtain old growth, heart longleaf pine, it will be plenty sturdy enough to grip a hold down. OTOH, if your yellow pine is plantation grown slash pine, for bench tops, it's not worth the paper it's printed on.

Re: Bench Hold Down---LV

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>I'm firmly in the LV holddown camp. I have two of these and use them all the time. One is kept with the full length shaft, and the other I cut off about half the shaft and use it in the apron.

I'm really not very gentle with tools, and these have held up fine. The posts with their overlapping scale pattern offer great hold, the screw tensioning offers better control over tension than any hammer set hold fast can. They will be less abusive to your dog holes and allow better control of the force applied to the items you are holding down.

Now I'm just a recreational woodworker, so maybe I'm less hurried, but the extra seconds required to turn down the screw just aren't important to me, particularly since I don't have to keep a hammer on hand or go looking for one.

Re: Bench Hold Down ???

Mark Harrison -- in Sydney, Australia

>The problem is more likely the thickness of the bench where the hole is.

I had the same problem with the Woodcraft holdfasts (I bought them on a business trip to the US a few years ago) until I glued and screwed some 2 by 4's underneath the existing round dog holes and drilled them all the way through. They work like a champ now.

Re: Emmert Clone Link

Garrett in Victoria BC CA

>Hi Randy

I thanked you via e-mail, but would like to do so on the board as well. As mentioned, I've lusted after an Emmert for years with no prospects, so I ordered the clone from Woodcraft in Seattle. They matched the Highland price. A very good deal, even with $60 for shipping (cross-border).

Cheers, Garrett

Re: Emmert Clone Link

Jim DeLaney, Tustin, CA

>You'll like that vise. I've had mine (from Highland Hardware) for about six months now, and really like its versatility.

Mounting it to the bench can be a pain. You have to inlet the top 'hinge' into the benchtop, and (depending on the thickness of your top, undercut the bottom of it.

My vise has a piece of casting flash that kept it from going perfectly perpendicular to the bench top. A couple minutes with a file - after a frustrating several minutes trying to figure out what was wrong - took care of it. I also had to mount and dismount it a couple times to get the undercut on the top right, so everything would tilt and rotate freely.

One other thing I had to do was remove the two jaw pivot screws on the top and bottom (at the front) and file them down a few thousandths so they fir properly into the recesses in the jaw angle adjustment. That only took a few minutes each on the drill press.

Other that that, it's a very well made piece of equipment. No, it's not an Emmert, but it is the next best thing, for less than a third of the price...

Re: Emmert Clone Link

Garrett in Victoria BC CA

>Thanks, Jim

I've saved your tips. The only alternative was the LV Tucker, clearly a superior vise, but at more than twice the price...

Cheers, Garrett

Sell2All Rebuttal

Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, South of Miami FL

>I have bought several items from Sell2All, most recently a big Record metal-working vice.

They are a big overrun/remainder outfit - not used tools. The tools are what they are - one can go elsewhere to figure out the model numbers, etc. Dealing with them is like dealing with a distributor or a warehouse, not the typical one-man eBay seller.

Everything I have bought from them turned out to be in perfect condition (it is, after all, new merchandise), and has arrived in a reasonable amount of time.

Now, I would rather buy from you, but your product lines do not always overlap.

Anyone know who makes these?

GolfSteve in Calgary

>Randal, I bought two of these hold-downs several years ago. I don't know who makes them, but they are very well made.

The bolt that holds the hold-fast in place is about 5/8 to 3/4". I can put install this in about 10 seconds and remove it just as fast. It is very strong and will not cause your dog holes to wear out. The supplied bolt might be a bit short for a 3" thick bench - my bench is 3/4" plywood and you can see that there's only 3/4" of thread left.

I bought these in Australia two years ago, and have never seen them again in any store around the world. They were about $15 to $20 CDN each in the bargain bin.

You can look for... *LINK*

Rob Lee

>.... these! (link below)

Cheers -

Rob


Adjustable Clamp

Re: Bench Hold Down ??? Record, LV, etc

WW-02 (Frank Martin)

>I have searched the Record available through Sell2All. The diamter of the rod is larger than 3/4", therefore if you are planning on using standard 3/4" dog holes, you cannot use this. After much search I decided on LV hold downs. Purchased 2 of them and really happy. BTW, when I was working on the design of my bench I did lots of search and found one very nice trick for dog holes. I think this was in one of the Shop Shots on WC. Lining your dog holes with copper tubing. Essentially you drill 7/8" dog holes and glue in (I used Gorilla glue) 3/4" copper tubings in the holes. The outside diameter of the copper tubing is about 7/8" and inside is of course 3/4". Now you have very sturdy dog holes. The beauty of this is you don't have to worry about the softness of the material you used for your bench top. My bench top is four layers of 3/4" plywood with 1/4" hardboard surcafes on each side with hard maple edges.

Caveat and tip

David Barnett

>While lining dogholes with copper tubing works great for plywood or composition tops, a typical maple top will usually contract enough to oval the tubing just enough to make one rue the day they put glue to metal and wood. Owing to swings in humidity and gradual shrinkage (my wood had been in my shop two years before assempling my top), almost everyone I know who uses 3/4" dogholes has had to ream them back to full size and roundness early on, and often, a couple more times to keep them so. This isn't really too hard to do, though.

Tip: Often, the auger or bit used to drill 3/4" holes leaves a tight fit for the dogs, or the holes have ovaled from wood movement. This is no problem when you turn your own dogs from wood, of course, but is vexing when you jam a dog so tightly you have to sledge it free (my apologies for any indelicacy). My solution is to use ten or twelve inches of 3/4" coarse threaded rod, pounding it through with a 3lb hard urethane mallet; a deadblow, drilling hammer, or whatever's handy will work as well, but put something between the rod and the mallet if you're using a tool you don't want marred. Follow it completely through the hole with a dowel of smaller diameter, and you'll have a doghole that fits just right.

Erratum trivium

David Barnett

>That should have been 'jamb'. Either way, it reads grotesquely.

Re: Caveat and tip

Terry Stapleton, Punxsy, PA

>Thanks for taking the time to share. This is just the tip I needed.