Ebay Fraud

Re: Ebay Fraud

Matthew J D'Avella, Kona HI

>Did you report this to eBay? Please do. Many of of sell on eBay regularly and I think I can speak for all of us involved when I say, "track down that thief!" This sort of thing is causing sales to drop. I'm glad that you checked into this before you sent the money. Did the seller in the U.K. contact the other 'underbidders' to warn them of this potental scam?

Matthew

Re: Ebay Fraud

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Very close call, something bad happens to people when they see what appears to be a good deal. It gets worse, and may in fact be the downfall of ebay. Apparently the crooks are now scanning other sites for vehicles, for example, putting them on ebay, asking for money orders via express mail. One Austin fellow, according to a news segment, actually FedEx'd a $35,000 cashiers check for a car auction he'd won to one of these sleezes.

I decided long, long ago that I'd never send a pure cash instrument and have only violated that once, for a very low priced maebiki (huge Japanese timber saw), which I'd been trying to find for over a year. It's not that $120 would have ruined me, but no one wants to be a fool.

Pam

Re: Ebay Fraud

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>What good will that do? Ebay doesn't much care one way or the other. They seem to consider themselves as the wild west of legend, where any fool is allowed to enter negative ratings in retaliation, when bidders' checks can bounce and nothing bad happens to them, in which there's no effective negotiation/punishment process (you two get together and talk this out, we assume you're both reasonable, blah, blah, blah. Oh, yes, and we'll charge you for this negotiation.) Oh, you should a piece of s__t? Buyer beware.

And add to this a world in which credit card companies simply take away a vendor's money when fraud has occurred rather than chase down the offender. Bah!

Pam

Re: Ebay Fraud

Justin Ball

>WOW! Now I'm not that old, just over thirty, but I feel like a geriatric who has just walked out of the backwoods. I thought the PAPER letter about oil in Nigeria..."please send your bank details to be sent $25 million" was a neat idea/scam. Of course I've seen the same thing on my e-mail over the last 3 years, but I kinda had no idea how far the various scams go. I remember back in the days of badger Pnd that someone posted a thread that went like this...

"Thanks Bob for the information about your new $4500 machine. It took me 5 minutes to locate your address and telephone number on the net". SCARY!!!

Probably best to stick to boot sales/flea markets, reputable dealers, preferably with shops, and use coins only! At least for me.

Justin

Re: Ebay Fraud

John Truxell-Svenson (jvs)

>Another good reason to stick with dealers, especially ones that use Old Tools Standard Terms. I borrowed a book about ebay before I started using it; the chapter describing scams was enough to put me off for a year, and I still don't look twice at anything offered by a seller that has a line like "remember, the pictures are the description, and have fun bidding!"

On the other hand, I did have fun bidding and winning at an auction once at a sorority house in college. Is $20 for a half-hour massage a gloat?




/jvs

Re: Ebay Fraud

Paul M. in San Diego

>"Bah"

I thought you weren't going to start grunting until you turned 65? ;-)

:)

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>

Re: Ebay Fraud

Steve Knight

>this scam is pretty common anymore. western union and out of the place they are suposed to be are all it takes.

Re: Ebay Fraud

Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, South of Miami FL

>I have been using eBay for years, and have made at least 200 purchases, everything from books to jewelry to food, and have more or less received everything I paid for. I have never encountered a case of deliberate fraud, to my knowledge.

I did once have a seller contact me when I did not reach the reserve, but was the highest bidder. The sale worked out OK. It was Steve Knight ;-)

I just try to use reasonable judgement - when I saw a bargain price from a seller in Azerbaijan, who wanted cash only, and had only two questionable feedbacks - I skipped that one. One has to balance the price, the seller feedback rating, the payment method, etc.

Re: Ebay Fraud

Tom MacGregor, Plainfield, Vermont

>I find that ignorance is a bigger problem on ebay than outright fraud, at least in the plane section. The most common scam I've seen is fake Stanley 18-1/4's. I've "busted" four in the last year with polite questions.

Re: Ebay Fraud (Ebay Question)

Ed Gutgesell

>Different problem. I just made my first (won the bid)acquisition on Ebay. I tried to sign up for paypal and got a message back saying I needed cookies turned on to sign up. Basically I don't turn on cookies for anyone and wonder why Ebay paypal requires it to be on.

The company I bought (won the bid) the item from indicated in a return e-mail that I could pay for the item by sending a fax with my credit card info for payment. I say no way!!!

It appears that the only other way I can pay for this is personal check. All of this seems very odd to me! Maybe since some of you have dealt with Ebay and the bidding process you can clue me in about paypal, etc.!!! Thanks in advance for your replies!

Re: Ebay Fraud (Ebay Question)

Brian LeFevre

>I have used paypal for a few years. The reason they need cookies open is so they can plant a cookie on your computer that will auto-fill your info. I think this is a bad thing if anyone else ever uses your computer. No one uses mine, so I keep cookies on. To clean them out, go to your tools pulldown and then to internet options, then delete cookies, delete files (being sure to delete all offline content). This will make all the cute little icons on you favorites go to the std microsoft "e", but who cares. This is also how to keep your system cleaned up. You should occasionally clear history too. I have not any issues with E-bay or Paypal with the 12 or so purchases I have made. I just don't get out of hand without asking the seller some questions about the item and their location. I almost bought a load of walnut from a guy and had a trucking company go to get it, only to find out the guy was wheelchair bound and his son is in Iraq. The trucking company said "no loose boards". So no go on the walnut for me. My advice, be careful, be smart, and if it looks to good to be true, it is!

Re: Ebay Fraud

Zeke in Stillwater

>How much you wanna wager that the HOT mail address owner "aint in Rome" either!

Do you know any good hacker/lawyer types?

Conspiracy to commit fraud, etc. Wouldn't fraud over a phone line add some federal sting?

Who knows... bet they are somewhere in the us.

Would Hotmail provide a hard address? Be worth an email/phone call.

"Blood out of a turnip" scenario, but winning this one would be one for our side!!

Re: Ebay Fraud (long)

joel

>THe last time someone tried to cheap me I called American EXpress and had them stop payment on a paypal charge. At the same time filed a paypal complaint and an ebay complaint. (wasn't a tool dealer btw).

Ebay said the dealer in question didn't have enough negatives to do anything about it.

Paypal said that by stopping payment I violated my contract and they might terminate me. (They didn't in the end).

but by stopping payment I got them to reverse the charges and got my money back. Otherwise I would have been out the cash for months.

So basically my feeling is that Ebay isn't interested in making it easy for anyone to pursue fraud and part of the reason i think is that they are scared of any public mention of fraud - which I have read in some papers is a lot higher than they publicly admit. THere is after all no easy way to police millions of sales.

They also are interested in protecting their customers - the sellers who pay not me the buyer who buys.

I have been told by tool dealers that increasingly their best stuff isn't going to ebay. Ebay prices have dropped. I can't imagine why anyone would put any top shelf tools on ebay - I only bid if it's going cheap on ebay. Good stuff will always sell for more at a real auction (at least the stuff I'm interested in does)

I see lots of stuff that's misdescribed - either by ignorance or malice. Last year I bought two very rare planes for peanuts on Ebay because the seller had no clue. If the seller had sold through an established auctioneer the description would have been correct and the auctioneer would have made sure that the right people knew the tool was for sale and the seller would have made a lot more money.

Anyway I like ebay overall - but I'm increasingly cautious and since last year only bid if the tool was really unique and important for my collection. Now, after this incident - well I guess I'm even more gun-shy and that hurts every seller with one less customer to drive up prices.

I think ebay will beome the venue for mid- and low tier stuff and prices will continue to drop to account for the ebay "surprise" factor. Now I know a lot of you sell on Ebay and do very well but long term I think spending the effort to establish your own brand and sales venue would be more profitable. Look at Tony Murland in the UK, or Martin Donnely. (Murland buys on Ebay, Donnely sell books on ebay) they both have spent the time and effort so customers subscribe to their list and buy at set, higher prices. And the reason people pay a premium for their tools is that the seller is known. Sellers on Ebay are also known but their good name gets shared with Ebay. If I don't go to ebay to brouse - I will never see their good name.

Re: Ebay Fraud (long)

Dennis

>Ebay is Ebay and from what i have seen over the last 3 years only 1 out of maybe 3000 tools are worth bidding on. Buying on the bay is like swimming with sharks and i for one worked too hard for my money to get bit. It has always amazed me how people would bid and buy something just on the merits of a picture.

Yet there are some good dealers and i think they work at making ebay a market for them but i find it really takes some time to really know the good from the bad.

And as far as paypal goes, paypal is NOT a bank so i will only use a low credit line card and will be cold day in h*ll before i give them bank access

Dennis

remove nospam for email

Dennis

Re: Ebay Fraud (long)

Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, South of Miami FL

>Boy, I have a different experience. I use eBay, I use PayPal, and my PayPal account is tied to my bank account. No problemo. I am an early eBay user, and was an early PayPal user.

Re: Ebay Fraud (long)

Todd Hughes

>There is no doubt if you are an Ebay seller with low feeback and make a habit of selling glass ware and you put up a Stanley no. 1 "Little planer" with a fuzzy photo it will not go for the same price as if it was sold by a Tool dealer or in a live tool auction. BUT I think if a knowledgable ebay tool seller put it up with a good description and photo it will probably go for the about the same or even more,[do think the record price for a no. 1 in the box was from the ebay].Also less of a hassel then putting your stuff in a live auction and with ebay you can sell it in 7 days instead of waiting months till the live auction happens.Plus ebays cut is very small compared to what a live auction would charge and not to mention no buyers preimim, combined this could easly take 30% more off your final $. Of course Ebay has a much larger group of potential bidders then any live auction too.I think M.Donnely. is mostly a Tool Book and catalog seller that runs an auction whoes list of tools,[often curiously mis described!] are there to support these ventures, I know when I see him at a tool show he never has any tools for sale just Catalogs and books.I have bought quite a few things off Tony Murland at shows and resold them on Ebay for a good profit.I don't sell any real "High End" tools on ebay, mainly because I don't find them or if I do I keep them for myself but I am always surprised at what stuff will bring on it.In the last couple of weeks i sold a box of matches for $400, two scrap books for $700 and a pair of leather chaps for $660 so I don't think people are scared of spending money on ebay.I really think with these items I did as well as I would of anywhere.

I think Ebay does the best job they can with the fraud problim,a problim they have with sellers AND bidders I will point out.Realisticaly though don't think there is much they can do as I don't know how they could get envolved in every "He said, He said" disput.Will tell you I have had stuff i consigned befor with a live auction stolin, broke,hid in boxes,etc.Once took a bunch of my X Wives stuff to an auction for her, some disappeared befor the auction plusI left a bid on one vauable item for my self and it was "forgotton" and it sold for cheap to a friend of the Auctioner. Then a tag "Somehow" got put over the word Tiffiney on walking stick and the auctioner helper holding it up was the fellow bidding against me on it!.....Never had any of these problims with ebay.....Todd

Re: Ebay Fraud (long)

joel

>An interesting different view of the world. I think it's because I collect different tools than you typcilly deal with.

Incidently Martin Donnally runs one of the three biggest tool auction houses in the world. (measured by gross sales) The other two big ones being Brown Auction (Fine tool journal) and David Stanley (in no partiuclar order). Of the 3 these I don't know who is number one but I think Tony Murland is no. 4.

Re: Ebay Fraud (long)

Todd Hughes

>I imagine ebay sells many more tools in a month then all those auction houses do in a year combined.....I was curious and looked on Ebay completed auctions for what a Stanley no.1 plane might bring. Didn't look at all the auctions but the first one I saw was for one with some light pitting but still a nice plane , described OK but nothing great and photos weren't to hot either.Now at a Tool show I would expect this plane to be priced around $1,000 or so and maybe not a sure sell either.Have seen simular no. 1's at a big tool auction go for between $900 and $1,200. The one on ebay sold for $1,250 probably about the best you could expect to get for it I feel at a good tool auction, never know maybe two guys could go head to head and jump it up,[might on ebay too!] but I think most people would agree that $1,250 even for a high end plane like this and in this condition is toward it's upper price range.Again the seller doesn't have to pay the high commision fees charged by an auction or a other on line seller like MJD but just the very low Ebay commision,[less then about 5%] and a very big thing too is that you don't have to wait months for the live auction to happen.Really don't see how this no. 1 seller could have done any better selling it anywhere else.....Todd

Re: Ebay Fraud (not so long)

joel

>At the last Brown auction in October a number one, near mint in a "good" box sold for $3190.

A boxless #1 in medicore shape would sell for 12-1400, anything good will start at 1500 and up.

More than one dealer I know buys their number 1's on Ebay and resell them.

(They do sell for less occasionally from a major dealer but ususally there is a good reason. and with auctions of course you need two people in the world who want the same item at the same time)

Re: Ebay Fraud (Ebay Question)

Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, South of Miami FL

>You mentioned:

The company I bought (won the bid) the item from indicated in a return e-mail that I could pay for the item by sending a fax with my credit card info for payment. I say no way!!!

I have made orders and purchases for many years over the telephone. I give the vendor my credit card number for payment. I do not see how this is different from using a fax, but maybe I am missing something else from the story.

I just do not have credit card paranoia (maybe I should?). As I understand it, the most common credit card fraud method is for a waiter or cashier just to copy/save/memorize the numbers.

I am an original PayPal account holder, since their startup, and have made many, many purchases, and some sales using their services. Probably in the hundreds. Usually the payments are made by direct bank account deduction; sometimes from Amex if I want to defer payment for a few weeks. Although PayPal is closely associated with eBay, I have used it to buy from non-eBay vendors who use it as a convenient credit card sales enabler.

No Problems. (other than it is too easy to buy!)

Re: Ebay Fraud

Sanford Levy

>I wonder about the accuracy of ratings on ebay. I bought several items. Some sellers gave me a positive rating as soon as I paid: I am very quick. I then gave them a positive rating after I received the item. That seems to be the way it should go. But other times, sellers did not give me a rating as soon as I paid. I got curious and held off rating them for a week or even two. As soon as I gave them a positive rating, I got one. It seems clear that they were waiting for my positive rating for them. If I had given a negative rating, would I have received a negative one, even though I had paid instantly with paypall? Is that a good reason to avoid giving negative feedback? If you look at ratings, very few people get negative ones. But scams and various problems are common on ebay. I am very skeptical about the accuracy of ratings or whether they protect all that much. Sanford

Re: Ebay ratings

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I pay like you do, within minutes usually; and having been the recipient of 4 retaliatory negative ratings as a seller, which hasn't done anything good for my ratings, I insist on a positive rating immediately on payment. I've done my part at that point, it's up to the seller. Those who don't respond don't get a positive rating from me, ever. If I don't receive the item or it's unuseable, I insist on a refund. If I didn't get it, I'd yell, and hang the retaliation. Fortunately, I haven't had to do that yet.

I've found that negotiation via ebay is a complete waste of time, it drags on and on; and in the case of deadbeats, they're just trying to string things out as long as possible. If they want the wild west, they've got it as far as I'm concerned.

I'm just glad I don't have to buy that much on ebay anymore; although I'd sure like to sell some things again, just dreading it.

Pam

Re: Ebay Fraud

Steve Knight

>if you get instant feedback when you pay it is jsut a automated system.