LN chisels

Re: heat treating old chisels

Todd Hughes

>I have a friend who's shop burned down last year along with about everything in it.He found most of his chisels which had gotton hot enough to burn the handles off or at least char them badly. He asked me about it and I told him to give them to me and I would look at them,[about 20 chisels].Most were modern chisels of unknown make to me that he told me were quality tools, did have some older Bucks and Butchers if I remember right.Some were soft from the fire while others didn't seem to bad but I figured I would re harden and temper the bunch. I heated them up in my old coal forge 4 at a time only heating up the last couple inchs of the blade to an light orange heat then quenched them in some Hot Oil.Then put the bunch in the oven at about 350 deg. for half hr. Had one thin mortice chisel warp which I threw out the back window the rest came out good and my friend turned handles for them and has reported back that they work as good or better then befor the fire.Didn't take any great skill and was easy to do...Todd

Re: Now hold on.......

Dennis

>Your not missing anything, hand tools are just like wearing shoes, some fit and feel good and some dont. I look at it this way, if i need to know the time of day, do i need a rolex or timex?

All depends on what you doing and how you go about doing it.

Dennis

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See if you can try before you buy

Paul Barnard

>I talked to one trial user who reported edge retention to be on a par with his existing (old) chisels. He knows I have a very limited tool budget and said I would get much more bang for the buck looking for some older chisels. The A2 wasn't a silver bullet!

Me Too.....

Frank Mutchler

>

Re: Because

Phil Smith

>Don't understand the excitement over LN A2 chisels.

Haven't had time to put handles on all of my CPM 3V chisels yet. But over christmas helped one of my coworkers build a train table out of red oak for his 3yr old son. Good excuse to put a handle on one of the mortise chisels. He had cut all of the mortises with the 5/16" CPM 3V. Chisel is sharpened at approx. 23 degree primary angle and 27 degree secondary bevel. We used dead blow mallet to drive. This steel is very tough at rockwell hardness of 61. Saw only slight fold over of edge at this very steep angle. Did not have any problem with the tip holding up when levering out waste.

If anyone is interested I do have a new unused two cherries mortise chisel that I would gladly sell.

Also have made a 1/2" skew for the lathe. It is sharpened at 27 degree included angle. Got a very bad catch this past week with tip of the tool. Only saw very small (1/64 to 1/32"_ bend over of tip. Note tip bent and did not break at rockwell hardness of 61. I have had similiar catches with M2 lathe tools which broke the tip of the skew off.

Re: Because

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I actually prefer, by a long shot, Japanese mortising and paring chisels; but could always go for a few more sizes of 2 Cherries bench chisels.

I really admire your effort in making your own CPM 3V chisels, love it that they appear to be working so well.

I also fail to understand the excitement over A2 chisels, must be the great LN reputation, which is hardly a bad reason.

Pam

Look at it this way

Bob Hackett

>What have you got to lose?

If the edge folds now the chisel is unuseable for anything other than opening paint cans.

I also have had excellent results retempering old chisels.As Todd said it`s not hard and as long as you don`t burn the steel you can always just reharden and draw the temper again if you miss the mark.

I once brazed a piece of planer blade(air hardening HSS) into an old pitted slick for a friend.He thought it would be the greatest thing since sliced bread.He found that it takes alot longer than he expected to sharpen it.After he chipped the blade(he didn`t set the handle into the socket before using and the blade fell free) he just set it in the corner and now only uses it to rough out work.

Mainely,Bob

The absolute best tool is...

Bob Hackett

>"The one you have in your hand and are working with".Thanks to Brian McKenna for paraphrasing Cecil Pierce`s philosophy.

When asked what he thought of tools shown to him in a catalog,Cecil smiled and said"tear the page out,bring `em in the shop and we`ll see how they work".He`d then pick up whatever tool was close at hand(usually one he had made himself)and do the job.Once again proving that the skill behind the tool is more important than the name behind the tool.

The sign above his door said"The finest tool ever created is the human hand,but it is weak and it is fallible".

Mainely,Bob

may get to missing something

Bill Tindall, E. TN

>I had a set of the Blue handled chisles for many years and I was completely satisfied with them. They take a fine edge. A good many lock and hinge mortises were chiseled with them into pine and fir.

And then I started chopping mortises and dovetails in harder domestic woods, eg walnut. It is in these chopping operations that differences in edge durability show up dramatically. A while back we posted pictures of chisel edges after real-life use in dovetail and mortise chopping. The edge of some chisels failed after one wack. Two Cherries are mentioned often because they hold up well in chopping operations(and I am sure that some others do as well).

The other thing you may find with the Blue handles is that they are extremely top heavy. I got hand cramps holding them for dovetails. (I hold the chisel near the bevel with thumb and finger for better control) It was for this reason I set about to make some short dovetails chisels.

To summarize, for chopping operations, there are dramatic differences in chisel performance and durability, at least in my hands.

Re: may get to missing something

William R. Duffield, on the Cohansey

>I didn't get a chance to chop anything with the L-Ns I held, but the balance, the way they feel in the hand, struck me immediately as a significant advantage. The Eastern hophornbeam (Ostrya virginiana, or ironwood) handles are surprisingly well balanced, yet sturdy. I agree with you, re. the unsuitability of the Marples for chopping dovetails, due to their clumsy, massive, misshapen handles.

Re: may get to missing something

Steve Kubien

>Ok, so ergonomics are an issue. I can relate to that because I do find my Blue Chips top-heavy. Maybe a higher-end set makes in that case. As for edge-retention....I guess I'll have to take your word for it until I use more hardwoods. I don't doubt what you're saying one bit.

Hmmm, maybe I will have to look into another set. Oh great, a Knight jack plane, modern wooden jointer/try plane, Adria or LN DT saw and now chisels to add to the list! Oh did I mention that I think the Shepherd planes would look great as a collection, errrr, family all together. Sorry dear, no money to buy wood but look at these fantastic tools!!!!!!!

feeling impoverished in Ajax,

Steve Kubien

Re: Now hold on.......

Don Thompson - South of Miami

>I think that a better simile would be to compare buying a Timex and buying a 75-cent watch at a junk flea market.

Re: Barr

Ross Canant - NE Texas

>You'll find Barr's chisels in most every professional timber frame workshop. They get used hard all day every day, and they hold an edge great.