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Bridge City LA Smoother *LINK*

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Re: Bridge City LA Smoother *LINK*

#76

Agreed

wallyb

>William I agree that the joint BCTW uses can not be explained by the hacksaw and ball pein hammer method. Most of the posters here obviously think that the BCTW joint is synonomous with the hammer method. I don't think that it is. One person has correctly stated that the internet has dozens of examples of plane dovetailing, yet Sandor's example is the only one that I recall seeing that tries to explain BCTW's double dovetail.

What intrigues me is that Sandor thought of this method because he was unaware of the peining method. This is probably due to his woodworking background. The sliding d/d is a well known advanced joinery method amongst woodworkers, not so much for it's practicality, but for the skill required for it's execution and the resulting wow factor that it produces.

Since John Economaki has an advanced woodworking background I am quite certain that he would be aware of the sliding d/d, and he certainly does not shirk from adding a little wow factor to his product. I find it quite plausible that he may use some form of the sliding d/d as outlined by Sandor. Peining alone does not explain how he effects the joint. I don't beleive stainless steel has the maleability required to move the amount of material required by a d/d. If it can be done (unlikly) the resulting stresses would not allow for a plane that would remain stable enough to produce the occlusive seal on a granite plate that John describes. Instead, a plug could be silver-soldered in the slot, locking in the sides. The thermal stress from a low temperature silver solder would be less than that incurred by mechanical movement of the material. Offered as further evidence of a sliding d/d, is his planes all have an infill which would cover up the slots and plugs.

I agree that the machining process for a sliding d/d would require an accuracy of emmense challenge. But that is what distinguishes John's tools- he obviously embraces the challenge. The angled gear joint of his angle divider is proof of that.

WB

Re: Bridge City LA Smoother *LINK*

#77

Who is gonna solve how BCTW..

Chad Pearson

>puts together their double dovetail joints....seems to me somebody has to step up to the plate and take a hammer to their $800 plane.

Does John E. ever respond when people ask?

Chad (who happily owns a BCTW block plane he got for $300...great plane but not worth [to me] the 600 they would normally charge).

Re: Bridge City LA Smoother *LINK*

#78

Re: Agreed

Bob Hackett

>For a single machinist manually making a double dovetail,the challenge is enormous.For a CNC machine center it`s a walk in the park.Just another mindless job,once the program is downloaded and ready to run.

As anyone who owns CNC equipment can tell you,as long as you feed the machine stock,replace the tooling when it dulls,and properly clamp the piece to be machined,it`ll happily spit out afew thousand of whatever part it`s programmed for.The last one of a run of 10,000 will be just as accurately machined as the first one was.

The same comparison could be drawn between something hand carved and something carved by a CNC router.For that matter,lets just compare it to handcutting dovtails and using a router and jig for dovetails.

If a craftsman sold his work as only having handcut DTs("The master craftsman`s joint,a sure sign of quality") and then you walked into his shop and found a large stack of DTed parts standing next to a jig and tailed apprentice,how long do you think he would stay in business?

I know BCTW didn`t state thier double dovetails were handmade but it seems to me they sure implied they were produced by other than CNC machines.

Mainely,Bob

Re: Bridge City LA Smoother *LINK*

#79

Re: Who is gonna solve how BCTW..

Todd O. Cronkhite Native of Maine

>Chad,

John responded to a post earilier as you can see above. I wonder if anybody replied to him.

Todd O.

Re: Bridge City LA Smoother *LINK*

#80

Re: Who is gonna solve how BCTW..

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>I sent John Economaki an e-mail after he posted. Waiting to hear back.

Re: Bridge City LA Smoother *LINK*

#81

Re: From All Walks...

Doug Evans

>A good friend recently bought a house in Nfld. for about $Cdn 8000 in an outport community.

I suspect he will be walking above the telephone wires to the store in the winter though.

Flip side: Bird watching, fly fishing, etc. is apparently spectacular.

Might be spotty on the laser shops there though.

Regards,

Doug

Re: Bridge City LA Smoother *LINK*

#82

Lost my perfessunality there fer a moment...

Doug Evans

>Should put me into the negative, I think!

Cheers,

Doug

Re: Bridge City LA Smoother *LINK*

#83

Or,

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>I could wait for a couple of years and buy an infill kit (I have to be careful thinking about that, it's hard to type when the keyboard's covered with drool).

Re: Bridge City LA Smoother *LINK*

#84

Re: Actually

wallyb

>Hello Bob,

Straight from their ad copy:

"The sole of the CT-11 begins as a three-pound stainless steel billet. Using CNC machines and precise fixtures custom made for this purpose, the sole is rigidly held in place while the dovetails, pockets and profile are machined"

Just as it is an enormous task for a single machinist to make a single copy, the first prototype for a CNC run can be a complex task. John alludes to this in his description of his first plane, the CT-7, where he states that they spent weeks making mistakes before actually succeeding. I think Doug and Ben have described the same learning curve with their CNC'D product. You have focused on the payoff of CNC- accurately machined mass produced components- but have minimized the effort that it still takes to get to a finished product. The hard work with CNC is the same as with a single machinist, except with CNC, is done up front, and hopefully, only done once.

I am respectfull and awed by the hundreds of hours of work that people spend in the design, proofing, and manufacturing of products of an obsessive quality and beauty, be they made by hand or machine.

Obligatory old tool comment:

As much as I enjoy this thread, I typed my last post on it. On New Year's day I took the tip of one finger off in a 3.5" panel raising bit mishap and it is still sore. Who makes a good panel raising plane? I don't care if it was roughed out in a CNC.

WB

Re: Bridge City LA Smoother *LINK*

#85

Re: Actually *LINK*

Frank Mutchler

>A very nice looking set of panel raising planes recently sold on ebay. A not so nice one is at the link below.


Panel Raising Plane

Re: Bridge City LA Smoother *LINK*

#86

A tool is a TOOL... is a 'tool'..

CONGER - The Irish diaspora in Munich

>This brings to mind the slight cultural differences available across 'old

Europe'....

The Brits refer to a hammer as a 'Manchester screwdriver'.

The Germans refer to variable (pipe wrench) spanner (correctly called a 'stillson' wrench

- an American invention!) as 'ein Englaender' (an englishman) or 'ein

Franzose' (a frenchman).... perhaps for historic reasons!

-g-

Re: Bridge City LA Smoother *LINK*

#87

I stand corrected

Bob Hackett

>Guess I should have re-read the promo material.

I may have needed to be alittle more clear in what I was aiming at.I know there is alot of work involved in the program phase of CNC work.In most large(and some small)companies this is done by someone who is a programmer,that`s his only job.I don`t mean this to knock anybody,progammers are just as skilled in what they do as we are in what we do.

What I meant to point out is that the risk is taken out of production as soon as the program is debugged,and the machine is set up.I`m assuming(yes,I know that`s bad)that anyone who would spend the money on this type of equipment would also spend the added money to have the software on hand that would make the program part easier.Isn`t CNC all about making things easier,faster,more accurate and thus foolproof in production?

Mainely,Bob

Re: Bridge City LA Smoother *LINK*

#88

Re: A tool is a TOOL... is a 'tool'..

Todd O. Cronkhite Native of Maine

>Conger,

I've heard the common Ajustable Wrench refered to as The Mexican Toolbox. Don't ask me why.

Todd O.

Re: Bridge City LA Smoother *LINK*

#89

Re: A tool is a TOOL... is a 'tool'..

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Yes, interesting, I haven't hung around workshops here to know alternative/nationality-based names for tools; but an even more commonly known sample would have to be French Fries.

Pam

Re: Bridge City LA Smoother *LINK*

#90

Speaking of adjustables

Bob Hackett

>My buddy Howie,from down under,refers to these as"shifting spanners".Old timers up here call `em "wescotts".

We get "new-hires" from all over the country here at the shipyard and they drive the tool crib attentants up the wall.The common way for the guy behind the counter to sort out what they really want is to ask"what`s it for",in a coastal Maine accent(whutzitfoah).Most of them get the same look Howie had when I pulled it on him.Kind of a cross between what the hell did you say,is that really a word,and should I laugh or get mad here.I just had to compound it by following it up with"Jeezum crow chummy,yer REALLY from away ain`t cha?".:^)

Mainely,Bob

Re: Bridge City LA Smoother *LINK*

#91

Hammers

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>When I lived in the Midwest, one of my older shop teachers called hammers "Ford wrenches."

Re: Bridge City LA Smoother *LINK*

#92

He probably worked at GM.

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>

Re: Bridge City LA Smoother *LINK*

#94

Re: Truly great ad-Omnipotent woodwork circular sa

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>I like the "Horizontal pair of axles tenon trough machine" in the second link, too.

Now that's straightforward, if somewhat incoherent when translated, ad copy.

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