Re: contact cement glue up

Get some help......move the table outside to the garage.

Re: contact cement glue up

Roger, this table, originally a woodworking bench, weighs about 200 pounds! And getting to the garage requires hauling it up steps. (I think i better get a fan.) There is a fairly heavy duty Delta overhead dust filter right over the bench, but I figure using it would only suck the fumes into the filter. How about some other kind of glue? Then again, clamping it up seems like a nightmare. Do you feel like coming to Maryland to help me out?

Re: contact cement glue up

I am more concerned that you might damage your health if you use traditional contact cement in a closed in area as you have described and with the large surface area you will have to cover in glue to do this job.......there will be a large volume of glue giving off fumes.

Re: contact cement glue up

I know there is a form of contact cement that is water based......but, I don't know about what fume danger this glue has or if the glue is any good.

Maybe you might not really need to do this at this time. I want you around longer and healthy.

Re: contact cement glue up

Where would sparks come from? A pleated filter will not remove VOC from the air. The biggest concern with solvent based contact cement is that the solvent is heavier than air. It will settle on the floor until it hits the pilot light on a water heater, then boom. Contact cement needs hard contact. Just setting 2 thick sheets of material together will not create a bond and will not guarantee a flat glued. In high school Industrial Arts, we were taught to use a scrap of wood and bash the block on top of a contact cement glue up to make full contact. But we never made large tables in there.

Re: contact cement glue up

I have lots of experience with contact cement.  I like the original version that is loaded with VOC's.  Don't like or trust the water based version.

I would get a fan.  They are only a few bucks. ($25 at Lowes)

How thick is the Melamine?  I have glued about an acre of plastic laminate (Formica) With Weldwood Original contact cement but have not tried Melamine.

Another possibility is construction adhesive.  I like PL400 now made by Locktite.  You could get a tube (caulking gun) or two and shoot it around the perimeter and a scribble in the middle and lay the melamine in place with some weights and leave the area for a day or two.  This might work better than contact adhesive if the top is not really flat.  PL400 has the ability to bridge gaps but contact adhesive does nothing if there is no contact.

I recently made wings for my tablesaw two layers of what looked like Baltic Birch plywood but made out of pecan.  Covered both sides with black laminate and contact cement.  In the past I have had edges come loose so for this I clamped all the way around them over night. Worked a treat.

Eliot......a basic question first.......

why do you want to do this......what are you trying to achieve with this??

For fewer fumes . . .

For at least the last thirty years of my career every shop I worked at used 3M Fastbond Contact Adhesive almost exclusively. It's some kind of water-based latex and produces a very strong bond. One time I wanted to remove the damaged laminate from the top of a shop assembly table and tried prying and using solvents to get it up. Eventually I routed it off. I know it was the 3M contact cement because of the distinctive green color of the adhesive.

The 3M product forms a thinner coat when rolled on than solvent-based cements. It comes in two versions, green and white, which are the same except for color. The white (which I prefer) turns from milky to clear and all areas of the surfaces need to be clear before the surfaces are joined. While the surfaces are drying there is a smell sort of like latex paint drying and there are enough VOCs to make the State of California nervous but compared to solvent-based cement it's like nothing.

Getting a good bond requires rolling the top to squeeze the layers of cement together but in your case the critical areas are around the edges. Using cauls and a few clamps will give way more pressure than you would need. The center of the table won't need lots of pressure.

Re: Eliot......a basic question first.......

Roger, I'm already committed: today I went out and purchased the last quart of water based contact cement they had at a local hardware store ( couldn't get it for love or money at any of the big box stores.) Supposedly, it has more holding power than the solvent based stuff, and although more expensive, it's supposed to be cheaper in the long run because it goes further. I do see that not everyone here agrees. 

What am I up to you ask? I'm  repurposing an extremely heavy, stable work bench, that I had a lot of garbage piled up on, into a new router table. I recently went nuts and bought the Incra LS positioner, and my old router table would have had to be upgraded anyway to accommodate the thing. And ( you always seem to guess right) I don't really need to cover all two by six feet of it with Melamine or what ever. But I like the idea of this slick stuff, and it will look cool. The guys at Incra (Taylor Design Group) also like the stuff to put under their jig. I REALLY wanted a Festool Cast iron router table. but I drew the line-- especially because -- at 100 hundred pounds --you need a buddy just to haul it around and set it up. (Also, for the first time, when it comes to  woodworking, Claudia thought  I was crazy.) And we don't even have to mention the price!

So I've gotten the 4 x 8 sheet of Melamine cut down to 2 x 6 ,got the water based contact cement, and tomorrow I plan to bond it onto the table.  It's the usual procedure using dowels and rollers, etc, followed by a trim router. I think I'll  enjoy doing it. 

Re: contact cement glue up

Well, for better or worse, I did get the water based contact cement. I did think about other stuff, but settled on what I had some experience with, albeit the solvent variety. The Melamine is attached to a thin sheet of hardboard, so the sheet is about 3/32 inch thick and is very flat. But it's floppy. The table top is flat MDF, so I believe even a thin coat of this stuff should work well. I  believe a key aspect of using contact cement is that it doesn't work by lots of pressure. I believe clamps are not necessary. In fact one of the drawbacks of this stuff is that if you prematurely manage to touch he surfaces together, you've more or less had it: they won't come apart.  I have always used long dowels to keep the surfaces apart when lining up the pieces until the last moment.Wish me luck!

Re: contact cement glue up

Eliot, when using contact cement on MDF the first coat mostly soaks into the MDF but seals it. The second coat stays on the surface. This is especially true with the thinner coats of water-based cement.

Re: contact cement glue up

Eliot,  good luck.  I hope the non solvent stuff works better for you than I recall.  I think Steve has a good point about the MDF.  Strongly consider a second coat.

I doubt you can apply too much pressure.  I am very pleased with the edges of my TS wings so far.  I would clamp the edges and use as much pressure as I could apply with a roller.  Pay close attention to dry times.

I hope you cut the piece plenty big. My experience is that bigger is better.  Much easier to trim an extra inch off that to find you slipped and were an 1/8 shy. One advantage to the solvent based stuff is it's reversible.  There have been several occasions where I had to remove and reinstall pieces by drizzling lacquer thinner between the pieces and then reusing the same glue.  (Its a wonder I am still here, been stoned on the fumes more than once.)

Setup is key.  Think it through.  It will work.

Re: Eliot......a basic question first.......

Eliot......Claudia thought you were crazy because of the cost of the Festool Cast Iron Router Table??.......I've never owned anything Festool......I know they are expensive......but, very good products......I have no idea what this table costs or what features it has that you may like/want......can't the table be put on a mobile base and make it moveable in your shop?? Are you looking to up-grade your router table for some procedure in box making and you feel the need for increased accuracy that the Festool will give you??

If this glue-up doesn't work out (I hope it does), maybe buy the Festool and be done with it.......and get Claudia something she wants.......

Re: Eliot......a basic question first.......

The tradesmen and women here are often hoping for the chance to rationalize purchasing a new tool -- so get the iron festool router table, and a then Bobcat skid steer with forks to move it around the shop.

Re: Eliot......a basic question first.......

Yeah. I have to admit that what I;m doing is a fair amount of work, but a 4x 8 Melamine sheet from the borg cost something like $23. (Of course, I already had the large MDF table.) The Festool iron router table top -- just the top -- costs around $500.