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Deck stairs

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Deck stairs

#1

Peter Martin

Deck stairs

Decking was replaced with Trex composite. Rail posts were moved from outside deck floor joists to inside. This altered the location of the posts at the top if the stairs.

Daughter's house. Son-in-law wants the top stair to be level with the deck, but I don't think it should be because of the location of the top rail post which will be the top post of the stair railing. Because the railing will start its decline BEFORE the stairs, this would require someone like me, over 6-ft tall, to have to lean forward to grab the railing while making that first step down--not a good idea to have to lean forward while descending a staircase IMO.

Any suggestions as to how best do this?

He wants to replace all the stringers. The bottom is rotted, but could easily be repaired w/o replacing them IMO. My thought is to just cut one rise off the stringers (the rotted bottom rise), move them closer to the deck, and go with that. 

Also trying to think of a way to make a more finished appearance to the edges of the composite decking, to hide the corrugated bottoms.

And is putting narrow concrete blocks under the bottom of the stringers an effective way to keep them from wicking water from the concrete pad so they won't be so prone to rotting? This is in Washington state, where it rains a lot. Like everyday, although it has been nice since I've been here.



Re: Deck stairs

#2

Ellis Walentine

Cute Corgy

You're right about the launch point, Peter.  I'd make a nosing to go all the way across the face of the deck with a rabbet to receive the overhanging Trex, then make three new stringers and new treads. Designing them is pretty straightforward.

First, measure the total rise from the Trex deck to the concrete deck below. Divide that by the number of steps to figure the rise of the individual steps. In this case, it looks like six rises, therefore 5 steps down.

Design the stringers accordingly. You can probably use the existing tread rise/run to approximate the correct ratio for this particular stair. To secure the stringers at the top to the rim joist of the porch, you'll need to add some blocking behind the joist that hangs down and gives you somewhere to securely fasten the stringers. Here's a quick doodle of how that might be done. 



Unless you want to get fancy, I'd stick with pressure treated lumber for the whole thing. To keep the bottoms of the stringers from sitting on wet concrete and to secure them laterally, you can check with your local lumberyard for some appropriate galvanized standoffs that register in holes you drill (or screw down with Tapcons) into the concrete.

Ellis


 


Re: Deck stairs

#3

Re: Deck stairs

1. Home Depot sells precut pressure treated stringers.

2. I suggest putting 2 x 8 x16 cement blocks under the end of the stringers to help support the weight of the staircase and the people on it. Check them every few years to see if they have settled in and need to be bottom filled to raise them up where they belong.

3. I would add additional stringers, maintaining a 1' space so that you can use Trex decking for the stair treads.

4. Lastly, I would not have the top step in line with the decking. Appearance and safety will both be improved by a step down.


Re: Deck stairs

#4

Re: Deck stairs

Ralph gave you some good info.  The stringers need to be 12" or less apart for Trex type decking.

Technically there should be risers to close off the opening under the treads, but ...?

There should be a "grip" rail about 2 5/8" wide or less and about 34" above the nose for the treads.

Eliminating the top step level with the deck is a good idea but introduces difficulty in attaching the stringers to the deck.  This attachment must be very secure or it will fail from people stomping up and down the steps.

The store bought stringers are often cut at a 7" rise and a 10" run (considered a perfect combination).  There are books written on stair building.  The building code requires every riser to be within 3/8" of each other.  The run also needs similar accuracy.

Use fasteners rated for treated wood.

If you want to hide the ends of the deck boards you and buy pieces of Trex type material that is something like 1/2" thick and 12" wide and wrap it around the deck like a band board.  This might also help with attaching the new stair stringers.

It might be a good idea to put a spacer under the stringers to break the contact with the slab.  Something 3/8" or more.

I have been a Class A contractor and Home Inspector and have built and installed many sets of steps.  This topic is much more complex that it appears at first glance.


Re: Deck stairs

#5

Re: Deck stairs

I attach the stringers by screwing a piece of 2x4 about 10" long to the deck and then screw the stringers to the 2x4.


Re: Deck stairs

#6

Peter Martin

Thanks for all the great suggestions!

There is a contractor (friend of the family) familiar with building decks coming this afternoon to advise on how to do the stairs. I bragged you guys up and suspect he will agree with all you suggested.

Daughter sez she would like the stair "enclosed" meaning using Trex for both the treads and vertically on the rise at the back of the tread, and also a fascia over the outside stringers to cover both the stringers and ends of the treads. Not sure what to use for that, I suppose the Trex could be used, but I'm thinking something white would look nicer, using materials that will eliminate the need for painting, staining, etc. I can understand the desire for low maintenance as the years sneak up on me. I have Taylor Swift videos to watch and menus to change, and cannot be bothered with such pedestrian maintenance!


Re: Deck stairs

#7

A Word

Most every contractor in my area of northern New Jersey has turned their back on Trex  in favor of AZEK as a much better product.


Re: Deck stairs

#8

Re: A Word- Trex issues

I believe Trex was on the hot seat for modifying dimensions and mfr. of all their series, which fouled up all repairs of older decking. 

Did everyone miss Ellis' construction detail? A great solution! 12" o.c. stringer and joist spacing is a prereq. for Trex. The stuff even sags under its own weight in hot weather. You really need matched material for decking. To look right.  Obviously, the main deck is comp. or plastic, so match it. Life cycle is slightly more than cedars, maybe, as good; and not as long as Ipe.

BTW, for everyone: Avoid composition (sawdust + plastic) decking. It dissolves, like hardboard; or, pressed fire logs. I have never seen a decent P.T. deck. 


Re: Deck stairs

#9

Re: A Word- Trex issues

There will be ice-cream parlors in H.ll when I'm convinced my 20 year-old Trex deck was a mistake.

The color has uniformly faded a bit but the decking integrity is just like the day it was bought. So far I'm 5 years ahead of  both my PT and cedar deck boards and I don't see any future need to replace the Trex - can't say that about the PT under it. It endures hot sun in the summer and over -30F in the winter with ice and snow getting shoveled numerous times.

In building a deck, I consider doing it on 12" centers to be a very minor incremental in cost compared to the whole job. BTW, the flexibility and rot resistance of the Trex makes it useful for in-ground curved planters or other object borders.


Re: Deck stairs

#10

Re: A Word- Trex issues

Anything to reduce the strain on the world's forests to turn them into deserts is a good direction. 


 


Re: Deck stairs

#11

Re: A Word- Trex issues

I thought that lumber harvesters plant more then one tree for every tree that they cut down to insure that the forests will survive.


Re: Deck stairs

#12

Re: Deck stairs

One more small thing. Some building codes require that you put a return at the end of the hand rail to prevent a woman's pocketbook from getting caught and spinning her around causing her to fall.


Re: Deck stairs

#13

Re: Deck stairs, Ralph, local take

Ralph,  It may be a local thing, but the Building Official no longer permits the stairs to be supported by a 2 x 4 screwed to the joist.  Too many of them have failed and collapsed.  Now they want a post under each stringer with the stringer bolted to it.


Re: Deck stairs

#14

Re: A Word- Trex issues

My cedar deck rotted away in roughly 10 years. I doubled the size of the original deck and used Fiberon composite decking. That was 9 years ago and it looks like the day it went in. I would never use anything but composite and highly recommend Fiberon.


 


Re: Deck stairs

#15

Re: Deck stairs, Ralph, local take

No doubt that's a much stronger, more reliable, way of doing it.


Re: Deck stairs

#16

Peter Martin

Maybe I need to stick to programming 




Re: Deck stairs

#17

To the contrary.........

that was very creative.......and not much unlike your programming........


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