Suggestions?

Teaser

Ellis, I plan to post the build behind the dark (Jarrah) "windows", hopefully tomorrow ...

At the front will be curved drawers ... but that is for another time.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Suggestions?

Thanks Jim,

I tend to agree, but ever since we've gone through this enormous redesign, it seems like more people have voted with their feet. In the spirit of eternal optimism, I'm thinking that can be changed. I for one would post more, but I'm limited by my available shop facilities and my itinerant travel schedule.

Maybe if seasonality is an issue, we should cook up a contest for springtime home improvement woodworking. 😉 

Cheers,

Ellis

Color us teased

Re: Suggestions?

When the post was made for people to use the off topic forum, there has been a grand total of 4 posts made. Also with the low number of people who contribute, the forum feels like you have to be part of the cool kids table to get a response. I'm aware that I'm not popular and people don't like my direct approach to comments, but I'm not so optimistic Ellis, I can see the spiral around the drain from here.

Re: Suggestions?

Everyone is welcome to speak their mind here, Dick. Maybe I'm not looking carefully, but I don't see or feel prejudice toward anyone. We are who we are and every unique personality helps comprise the community. No judgments. Disagreements welcome, as long as they are constructive. That's the point. 

As for the coreolis effect, don't speak too soon, eh? And, thanks for sharing your bike posts -- living proof that woodworkers aren't one-dimensional characters. Characters, yes.

I've always resisted the Off-Topic forum idea, preferring to keep the main boards open to occasional OT posts. I used to debate this with Jim Cummins all the time. To me, extra boards just add variety and confusion, sort of like the menu in a Chinese restaurant.   But this new board could be just fine. Your photos might start some interesting exchanges. Our lives outside woodworking can only add awareness and/or inspiration if enough people are into sharing them, which can't help but inform our design and woodworking efforts.

If we have to reimagine the concept of "forum," maybe expanding it beyond strictly topical exchanges is part of the picture.

Ellis

Re: Suggestions?

I tend to agree with Jim’s outlook on the variety of forums.  It’s both convenient and interesting to see a full mixture of topics  on a single “Main” forum.

Paul in Hunt Valley, MD

Re: Suggestions?

I don't look at the other forums except for the main woodworking forum. OT subjects in the main forum don't bother me. I'm not motivated to post much these days for some reason. 

Re: Suggestions?

All good input, guys. Thanks. 

Ellis

Re: Suggestions?

This isn't the only forum experiencing light usage based on my experience and it may well be the time of year.

I was in favor of the Off Topic forum and it seems to work well on other boards but perhaps the suitability has to do with the number of visitors. A large number of users could post a lot of OT and then the dyed-in-the-wool WWers will start complaining that it has nothing to with WWing and detracts from the forum. The other side of the coin is, as Jim and Paul have mentioned - having a few mixed in here and there is not a problem and even interesting.

I'll go as far as to say, it seems some forum users don't like change - dare I say they are inflexible.

Bill

Re: Suggestions?

Since I bought the sailboat two years ago, I am using my woodworking tools more than I have in the past 10 years.

 The work is mostly flat pieces fastened with stainless hardware, designed for easy disassembly, so probably not interesting.

Dovetails just get in the way when you need to find that $#**& leak.

 I never understood the need for a separate hand and turning, OT and  beginners sub-forums.

I am sorry to say that, for me, the biggest problem is the forum software, especially the lack of "Similar threads" list that I get on other forums 

that use the vBulletin format. 

Re: Suggestions?

Ellis, as I have mentioned to you before now, I believe that the low traffic is not due to the software (which is a matter of personal tastes), but that the existing members are getting older and shrinking. There is still passion there, but to join discussions rather than initiate them.

Few post a build or project for discussion. Critiquing a completed build is not the same as a build-along, where parts of the design or construction can be highlighted for examination. The age of members - averaging around 70 years - tends to suggest that they have “been there and done that”, and lack the enthusiasm to offer up work of their own.

These days I do not see the need for separate General (Woodworking) and Hand Tool forums. 99% of woodworkers are blended, and the few that lean heavily in one direction educate the other with their insights. I rather doubt that many would mind mixing the two, but some resists visiting both. I know that I was biased to hand tools for many years and did not view outside the Hand Tool forums (although I have always also used power tools). The problem with a single forum is that it will get over-crowded. There needs to be a way to display new threads and not all the posts, as on other forums.

My niggle (preference) with the headings of the forums is that “Menu” can hide the choices on offer. Rather display all the forums across the top of the page. And then STOP CHANGING the menu for at least several months. The constant alterations irritate me, and no doubt others.

We need new blood here. It is not enough to create welcoming software. It is necessary that the woodworking world learns of WC. Advertising is a priority. A competition? Advert in FWW and Pop Wood magazines? Trade adverts here with adverts there? 

Comments welcomed of course (it”s what we do best here).

Regards from Perth

Derek

Software

I don't get out much, Mark, so I'm not familiar with the Similar Threads capability, but I've never been a fan of vBulletin and other PHP-based forum software. Maybe Peter can figure out how to add a couple new features.

Good feedback, thanks.

Ellis

Re: Suggestions?

An Off-Topic forum has no appeal to me. Personally, I think if you want a WC Off-Topic forum, you should just set up a WC Facebook page. I enjoy the occasional OT post, but I come to WC for the woodworking expertise of the regulars here.

Then again, I’m inclined to agree with Dick and his comment about the cool kid’s table. I haven’t attempted to analyze the number of posts by different members, but I’ve always just “felt” like some members tend to respond only to other regular members. Inexperienced or less talented folks like myself come to WC to learn. If regulars won’t help those folks develop their skills, then there won’t be any future skilled woodworkers on WC. They’ll use other platforms to learn and to share what they’ve learned. Youtube may make WC obsolete.

Re: Suggestions?

I've never had the feeling that other/new members were ignored but I do think there is "join the star's entourage" happening where a well-known person posts something and the hangers-on reply with adulation and praise - not something they would do with a lesser known person.

Re: Suggestions?

I tend to agree with Derek's comments and he is right on about the Menu issue. The other forums might as well be Timbuktu since they are hidden sort of like trying to find a setting for your computer's OS that is buried rather than seen. Of course the setting has the advantage that you are actually looking for it which may not be the forum name situation.

Maybe it is because of Derek's other comments about being old, done that, etc ( I already do know how to flatten a board) that I find OT forums often interesting even if I'm not looking for a solution to an OT type problem. If that is needed, I'll Google but often there are great tidbits of info about other aspects of life presented.

As I said previously, how well presentation of mixed topics works is dependent on how many there are. For light traffic, mixing works fine but if there are 50 turning messages ahead of the first flat WWIng messages then it won't be so fine.

Stop sniveling, make something, take photos, post them.......

Re: Suggestions?

Thanks for all the suggestions, Derek. I've commented below...

Ellis, as I have mentioned to you before now, I believe that the low traffic is not due to the software (which is a matter of personal tastes), but that the existing members are getting older and shrinking. There is still passion there, but to join discussions rather than initiate them.

I wonder if it's possible to offer an incentive to initiate discussions?

Few post a build or project for discussion. Critiquing a completed build is not the same as a build-along, where parts of the design or construction can be highlighted for examination. The age of members - averaging around 70 years - tends to suggest that they have “been there and done that”, and lack the enthusiasm to offer up work of their own.

I think it also speaks to the extra work of documenting a build. I remember writing project articles for magazines and how it took me about three times as long to build something when I was constantly arranging appropriate shots, lighting, etc. Some people may also be intimidated by more competent members' work and be content to vicariously enjoy and learn from them. 

These days I do not see the need for separate General (Woodworking) and Hand Tool forums. 99% of woodworkers are blended, and the few that lean heavily in one direction educate the other with their insights. I rather doubt that many would mind mixing the two, but some resists visiting both.

Good point, Derek, and even more apropos when the number of new posts is low.

I know that I was biased to hand tools for many years and did not view outside the Hand Tool forums (although I have always also used power tools). The problem with a single forum is that it will get over-crowded. There needs to be a way to display new threads and not all the posts, as on other forums.

Overcrowding is what prompted our move to multiple forums years ago. I agree that now this is unnecessary, and maybe we could revert to one forum -- a blended forum as you suggest. By the way, you can reset your preferences to only viewing new posts.

My niggle (preference) with the headings of the forums is that “Menu” can hide the choices on offer. Rather display all the forums across the top of the page. And then STOP CHANGING the menu for at least several months. The constant alterations irritate me, and no doubt others.

The menu question has definitely been vexing. Knowing better than to try to dictate technical decisions, I have given Peter free rein to adjust menu parameters and page layouts to conform in the best way with all device platforms and W3 protocols. He's doing it in real time and not on a test server, so we're the guinea pigs and it can be disorienting for sure. I know this is why we haven't seen Bill Tindall in a while.

We need new blood here. It is not enough to create welcoming software. It is necessary that the woodworking world learns of WC. Advertising is a priority. A competition? Advert in FWW and Pop Wood magazines? Trade adverts here with adverts there? 

I agree with the 'new blood' sentiment. Sadly, I can't begin to offer fair trades to magazines, at least not with our traffic at its current level -- not that they've ever been receptive -- and we have no ad budget or rationale for spending unless we are prepared to be able to attract advertisers to our pages. If I had a sales person and a business plan, it would make sense, but I've never run WoodCentral like a business. Competitions were wonderful in their day, but the amount of work and the technical back end was staggering, and the costs were huge. I had advertisers then, and the kind technical support of Lee Valley Tools in those days. I suppose we could come up with a much simpler way to do it, but I'd still need some volunteer assistance to make it happen.

Comments welcomed of course (it's what we do best here).

... and this is just like any other design problem. All we need to do is find the best solution.

Re: Suggestions?

As others have suggested having a Facebook account for WC would probably attract some hits. Maybe start off with posting content from Shop Shots or other archived articles? Taking out some Facebook ads as I have seen some of the youtubers doing might be effective as well. I've never used instagram, but lots of people do... 

As for not posting recently... full time job, unexciting home maintenance projects and trying to get a garden going.

Re: Suggestions?

I'd be most happy to have some Facebook-savvy person attend to our Facebook presence. My old friend Cindy Drozda tried to get me started in Facebook about 20 years ago, but I just can't muster the kind of attention it demands. Likewise with Woodfinder's page.

Any takers here???

Ellis

So far, my summary observations...

I was one of the first to read the OP. It's easier to wait for some water under the bridge before spouting my own liquid.

My initial thought was to plaster other forum sites with WC references. That's how I ended up here. [Maybe, not so good an idea...?]

What site is that one starting with an "S"? The one with 'Totalitarian' implied in the off-site reviews?

Do a Google of "woodworking forums". Used to be I could find a list of specialised forums, but that must have been before Google; and Yahoo had so many specialized sites. I think listing hierarchy is based on popularity, and not alphabetically as implied by WCs location.

OT: Don't do it! Blending can be an immense relief from stressful work, work, work; and sawdust from screwing up dovetails done in countless ways. Also, more importantly, an OT forum is no better way to view (learn) the ugly racist, bigoted stupidity of possibly--not really--intelligent people.  

My twenty-cents (inflation.)

Re: Suggestions?

BTW, what happened to the Woodcentral Articles & Shop Shots? I can't seem to just view them like the old days. I'm not interested in searching them, just perusing the list to find what I'm looking for

Re: Suggestions?

When researching some topic when I first joined this forum, the lack of a decent search tool and navigation of older threads was very poor. I couldn't really care less to see someone's latest dovetails or how fancy his tools are. I ignore those posts. Topical subjects, like David's steel posts, or the one about the guy making hot hide glue pots out of copper pipe caps, those were interesting to me. Perhaps when the manners of certain members here change, we will see some interesting discussions again.