Shapton 16000 grit

Corian sands and even hand planes ..

David Weaver

...corian sands and even hand planes easily. If it's ever out of flat, it can be planed or sanded clean and then fine sanded to be used again.

if it's only being used for the finest of honing, though, flatness isn't going to be that big of a deal. Flatness becomes a big deal if a pre-final stone is way out of flat and then you want to address the work by removing the scratches with a final stone that is flat.

Bill, I can't see a need for a buffer if you don't have one and use it elsewhere. The 1 micron diamond on corian is lovely. you can do the unicorn edge profile by the angles discussed previously and 1 micron on corian. It's just hard enough to feel like a good natural stone and not persuasive enough to do what cast can do (influence some work by itself on an edge by bending, pressure or abrasion).

Re: Loose abrasive on Corian alternative

Frank M

Where would one purchase flat cast iron plates to try this out? Of course, a purely theoretical question:-).

Unicorn Profile

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

The inventor has proposed a new name for his invention. Hereafter it will be referred to as the "Unicorn Profile". One can imagine a nifty logo to go with this name.

used to be me

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

I sold the extras I had.

I got my first plates at a machine shop. They had 3" x 36" x 1/2" bars from some metal source. Cut at 12" and surface ground they are dandy.

later we bought continuously cast 2 " x 1 1/4"(?) bars from a metal supply shop and sawed them in half, then Blanchard ground them. For a single plate a large plane body would work. A junk yard could have all sorts of cast iron that had a useful flat spot. Table saw top would make several.

But Corian may replace cast iron for our purposes. I have yet to try it but will soon.

Re: Corian sands and even hand planes ..

Frank M

Great to see you here David! Love reading about your experiments and insights...

Regarding corian, I read the other thread and it is compelling. I will wait to see the long term performance.

Regarding buffer, I have one side of my 7" Baldor grinder that I can attach a buffing wheel (other side has the 180 grit CNB). What kind of buffing wheel and compound work best for you for flat irons (chisels, plane blades, etc.)? I was also thinking about wheels with profile (convex, concave wheels) for carving tools.

I need to see how I can set it up to ensure the wheel is turning away from the tool for buffing, but into it for grinding. Grinder is heavy and turning around will not be convenient. So, I will likely point the edge down, which will create visibility issues... More things to ponder...

Re: better options...

Frank M

Hi Derek,

I basically setup the same system you posted about some years ago with 180 grit CBN, Spyderco Medium & Ultra fine followed by the Lee Valley green compound on maple. I like it a lot. Especially, the close to no maintenance part with Spyderco stones. CBN making it very easy to free hand sharpen was a huge improvement in ease and speed of sharpening (i.e., not being stuck to using a honing guide). The reason I am considering Shaptons or other stones is to have wider stones and more grit options (to replace green compound on maple).

Sigma stones sound great in their own right, but I am trying to avoid "water stone mess" as I don't have a sink in my shop (garage). So, that is why I am curious is Shapton ceramic stones are similar to Spydercos or not.

Thanks again for sharing all your insights. Helped me a lot in my own journey.

Re: Corian sands and even hand planes ..

David Weaver

I use a cotton buff with 8 stitches. It has some backbone, but a little fluff at the very edge.

There are harder and softer wheels. that type is what I like best so far - it's forgiving but stern enough.

I use a cheap 5 micron buffing stick from mcmaster carr (4784A2) - https://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/126/2826

I believe it's the stick that they have listed now for $11 for 3 pounds - yellow color, calcined alumina. I don't think it's probably that important other than that you don't feel the need to be sparing when it's cheap, and to point out that it works well in the buff, and at the same time, the abrasive is far too coarse to use elsewhere. The softness of the buff lets it do its job but it never really digs in deep.

I didn't ever experiment with this - just thought in the past I could experiment into a one-step sharpening process with the buffing stick applied to a hard surface (used like a stone) and it was no good, so I set it back until finding something good for it (theory of spontaneous junk - if you have enough junk around, sooner or later something useful will spring out of it).

As for the grinder, probably fine - as long as the tool rest and any guards are gone and you use the buffing wheel below center. I am not a safety first kind of person (within reason - limb severing power tools wake me up), so if it feels unsafe, it may be worth spending the $40 at harbor freight for a cheap buffer (with coupon I guess). My buffer is certainly a functional turd.

Re: Loose abrasive on Corian alternative

Bruce, a MN Galoot

If you have a community college with a machine tool tech program, they may be able to precision grind plates for you, often for free, since it provides experience for their students.

Re: better options...

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

Frank, Shapton and and Sigma are similar in regard to water and mess (being ceramic waterstones, they are "splash-and-go"). Neither are in the same class as Spyderco in this regard (which requires minimal amount of water). However, being friable (while Spyderco are not), they expose fresh grit and cut faster.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: better options...

Frank M

Derek, good to know. I ordered a set of Shapton glass from Woodcraft to take advantage of the price cut on the 16k stone. I will try when they arrive. Really hoping the mess part is a lot less than normal water stones and closer to Spyderco.

Re: better options...

David Weaver

you can spray and use all of the shapton tools well. The glasstones are a little bit less sticky feeling on the fine stones than are the professional stones (that's a non-issue after getting used to either).

You'll have less mess than the stones that soak (or if you don't soak them, continue to absorb) with water, but you will definitely end up with black hands with a shapton, so you'll want to have something around to wipe that off of your hands.

The kind of slurry that's generated from softer stones is something you won't have unless you dress the shapton glasstones a lot and really flatten the crap out of them like rob cosman shows. I'm not that thrifty, but grinding a 5mm stone that much is something I couldn't bring myself to do.

If you use them and get used to them and use them the way they like to be used, you'll like them (the glasstones). They are more aggressive and different than using the spydercos, and if you have a heavy hand, you can still nick the surfaces of them (unlike spyderco). If spyderco's UF and F stones have 3-5 microns in them, the 16k glasstone has just under a micron and will still cut faster in most cases (and uniformly fine).

They're a vast improvement for a dry shop over things like king stones, etc, which generate a lot of mess and don't really work that well if you just spritz water on them.

Re: better options...

Frank M

David, this is super helpful. A direct comparison to Spyderco and glass vs. non-glass Shaptons was what I was looking for as I love the low maintenance aspect of Spyderco stones. I have not used the Spydercos a lot yet, but when I checked couple days ago, I realized they would benefit from a quick resurfacing / flattening with a diamond stone. Took only 5 minutes to get each back to super and cleaner. Based on what you say about the Shapton glass stones, I think I will like them. While their regular price is higher than other Shaptons (esp the 16k glass vs. 12k Korumaku), given the Woodcraft sales plus another 10% discount they offered, pricing is pretty comparable to cheaper non-glass Shaptons.

Once I receive them and have some meaningful experience with them, I will share my thoughts here.

Re: better options...

Frank M

I meant "...super flat and clean..." in the message above. Need to figure out how to edit posts....