Redesign an entrance hall table

Re: Redesign an entrance hall table

roger lance

1.) Taper the legs.

2.) Bevel the underside of the top. *edit: this will require shortening the aprons to increase the overhang of

the top.

3.) Bead the aprons.

Re: Complete(?) Redesign of entrance hall table

Henry (Raleigh NC)

Given free rein ... I would change (almost) everything?.

Biggest issues to my eye are

- the very minimal overhang of the top and

- the un-tapered and stout looking legs.

Entry tables aren't going to take much abuse or weight, and can designed to be much lighter and lighter looking.

I'd do at some of the following:

- increase the overhang by 'bringing in' the legs

- as described above, likely thin and taper the legs, and under-bevel the top

- given that the task is to add a drawer, I guess having on curve on the bottom edge of the skirt would be complicated... but since I 'can't get myself' to do blocky like this, I guess I would create a curve on the ends of top, or maybe the front, not both.

- as described above, a bead (or contrasting inlay) along bottom edge of the skirt.

- even turned and tapered legs (without any of the other changes) would do wonders for this.

- a thinner (less height) skirt would help too

Henry

You can't make a silk purse...

Clint Searl

...out of a sow's ear. Paint it the color of the wall to make it disappear.

Re: Redesign an entrance hall table

Wiley Horne

Hi Derek,

You’re a courageous soul! And a good friend to your friends.

Suggest:

1. Remake from scratch from jarrah (explain about the original joinery issues).

2. 30” high. Tapered legs: 1-5/8” at top; 13/16” at floor.

3. One drawer (or two). full width with 3/32” cock-beading in same wood.

4. Waist bead, 5/32”, all around circumference, at bottom of rails, and cutting across legs.

5. Federal period (ca. 1800) brass pulls, or similar.

Object: Simple but refined look. Restrained ornament.

Wiley

Re: Redesign an entrance hall table

William Duffield

If I felt cantankerous, (see thread below), I would suggest putting in a totally invisible drawer with the drawer front made from the apron, and leave everything else totally alone. However, in reality, I agree with most of the other responders.

To make the top look larger and fix the lack of joinery, shorten the aprons a bit, and cut tenons in the ends to match mortises cut in the legs. This should save it from an ultimate premature fate at the curb.

Definitely taper the legs.

Add a low shelf, if you can find enough matching jarrah.

No need to add any other stylistic embelishments.

Re: Redesign an entrance hall table

David Weaver

thinner legs, thicker top. If the drawer has no pull, I'd put no detail on it. If it's allowed to have a pull, I'd bead it.

The top ought to be allowed to have corners - corner rounding on straight edges is for playpens and inexpensive amish furniture - entire thing has hard edges except the top corners.

If it's going to have a bead, pulls and tapered legs, some edge detail on the top would be nice.

Re: Redesign an entrance hall table

Jim Dillon

Derek, agree with others. Taper the legs, reduce the width of the rails, shorten the length of the rails and stiles to enhance the overhang of the top, add a drawer that is subtle, but tasteful. Personally, I would avoid beading as it detracts from the basic "Shaker-style" of the original. Wonderful design project and I am sure you will do it proud!! Thanks for posting. Jim

Re: Redesign an entrance hall table

Pete in Holland MI

1) Assuming the blocks & brads were the principle attachment of the legs to skirt, replace them with Table Apron Leg Brackets (Rockler). Another option would be put in a floating tenon into the skirt then leg mortices.

2) As others......taper the legs. Looks capable of supporting engine blocks. Maybe even making the whole thing smaller prior to tapering?

3) A shelf down low between the legs allows strength of the legs, and a place for nick-nacks.

4) The front skirt board can be cut down to allow a drawer front, and have continuous grain, though the rear skirt board may need to be shortened some, so the front skirt's drawer kerfs are not too wide.

Build her a new one

Pat Evans

Just because she said OK, without knowing what you had in mind, doesn't mean she's going to be OK with changes. If she didn't like the table, I assume she wouldn't have it. Might be safer to build her a new one per your tastes. If she likes it, you're a hero. If not, you can always add a drawer to the existing table.

How I design stuff

Ellis Walentine

I resist absolutes when it comes to design. For me, the design always starts with the customer, so my process would be to assess: 1) what she is asking for, i.e., the design problem according to her (you can always educate her as to your views); 2) the surroundings where the finished piece will live, so it will complement the setting; 3) functional requirements (storage, sculpture display, place for keys, etc.); 4) engineering requirements (v. strength, rack resistance, other) ; 5) cost constraints, if any.

Once you figure all that out, I'm pretty sure you'll want to thin and taper the legs, articulate the edges of the top in some way, and possibly add some visual movement, as with a graceful curve in the apron (again depending on what works with the space). If a drawer is called for, let the overall design aesthetic determine whether it is discreet or embellished in any way.

Share preliminary sketches and rough budget for customer approval before proceeding, although it seems you're pretty well on the way. It's possible to overthink these things, too. KISS principle might be best.

Ellis

Re: Redesign an entrance hall table

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

It is so interesting - and re-assuring - how many of us see the same issues, and even come up with similar ideas.

As some recognised, I plan to pull the table apart and rebuild it with the parts.

The table top is the key. It fits the space where the hall table will live. This means that the width of the table cannot be changed. All the other dimensions must work with it.

Clearly the top is too blocky, and the depth needs to be reduced to achieve a more aesthetic proportion. This will allow the top to be re-shaped. Perhaps a gentle curve front and rear (getting rid of the rounded corners at the same time!).

There needs to be overhang to the sides and the front. To enable this, the skirting needs to be shortened front, back and sides. This is the reason I have begun dissembling the base.

The legs will be tapered, naturally.

I have an idea for the drawer. Hopefully interesting enough to add a little playfulness to the design.

Joinery? I need to work out how much the skirting must be reduced. That will decide whether I can do mortice-and-tenon joints for the legs. Otherwise it will need to be dominos.

I suspect that the current joints are M&T as the corner blocks made no difference to the rigidity of the construction. It is Really Strong. No give at all.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: How I design stuff

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

Have no fear, Ellis. She is an old friend and even though I am aware of her tastes, she gets a drawing before any cutting is done.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Redesign an entrance hall table

jessecloud

Maybe ask her to view some "Entrance hall table" images on google and pick a few that she likes. Ask her what it is about the images she likes and imagine changing the existing table to have similar features. Maybe its a rework of that table or maybe a whole new table.

Re: Redesign an entrance hall table

Clint Searl

This might be a good exercise for a bunch of students in a hi-falootin' design course...or maybe not. Methinks it would be interesting.

Variations on a theme

Clint Searl

One more

Clint Searl

Re: Redesign an entrance hall table

paul in AZ

I've made a few of these. The first thing to check with the homeowner is dimensions. Wall space and width may be a factor and front to back depth a preference.

On this one I agree with others on slimmer, tapered legs; more overhang of the top and slimmer more proportional aprons. They are not apt to store much more than front door keys in a hall table drawer [ask her] so a shallow drawer can be just fine.

For the amount of work involved in resurrecting this one I'd be inclined to start from scratch and build a new one.

Already M&T?

Ellis Walentine

What is your preferred method for dismantling mortise-and-tenon joints? It really might be a lot easier to just make her a new table if you can agree on a budget. You wouldn't be constrained by anything. I'd at least sketch up a few little perspectives of the aesthetic you envision for this space.

Ellis

Re: One more

William Duffield

The pinched corners on your last example just might be a viable way to get rid of the grotesque, shin bruising rounded corners of the original.

Derek might have a little trouble squeezing the turned cabriolet legs and the pad feet out of the original parson's table legs. Personally, I am not impressed by turned, stiff cabriolet legs; real curved cabriolet legs can be much more elegant and artistic. The pulls on that table are also not period correct, even though after the Revolution, many people replaced their pre-revolutionary pulls with ones that were more in the Federal style. All of this period style discussion, however, may be totally impertinent to Derek and his friends in Western OZ.

Re: Redesign an entrance hall table

walta

The photo do not give us many clues about the rest of the room but the chair in the photo and the lack of clutter makes me think shaker. I think the current table is to deep and not long enough for the space.

Walta

More info

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

Ellis, this table has no intrinsic value for my friend. It was found abandoned on the side of the road, and rescued by her late husband and very close friend of mine ... who was a fine woodworker, himself. He sanded it down, varnished it, and it was used as a work table.

She moved very recently to a new home. The table was chosen for the entrance hall as it fits an alcove there. No other motive. One reason why I am thinking about a subtle curve to the front and rear of the top is to contrast with the straight lines around it.

The home has a mix of modern- and country style furniture. She loves the stuff I have built for my home. I told her what I had planned, and she just said "work your magic".

So, about the M&T joints ... we'll discover more this weekend.

Regards from Perth

Derek

M&T joints

David Yoho

If the aprons are attached with M&T, as you probably know, a heat gun can be a big help in loosening the glue in those joints along with some persuasion from a dead blow hammer.