WoodCentral Forums

Est. 1998 — 27 years of woodworking knowledge

Raising the panel

Posts

Raising the panel

#1

Raising the panel

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

I begin by laying the panel face side down and using the fence set at 1 1/2" and the blade up about 1/8" I saw the vertical part of the "raising" on the four sides. (forgot to do a picture of this operation)

Next I saw the bevel. I saw in several passes. For the first pass I trap the panel between the table saw fence and an auxiliary fence. There is a pesky triangular waste piece that can get trapped between blade and auxiliary fence. By one means or another it needs to be removed in a way that it does not get wedged between fence and blade or bad things happen. Usually I saw it away in pieces. I do the final pass with feather boards as shown in the picture.


If anyone has a better way of sawing the bevel please disclose it. I am not settled that what I do is best.



Finally I plane and scrape the bevel smooth.

Re: Raising the panel

#2

Re: Raising the panel

Hank Knight

Bill, when did you get a #4. I thought your only plane was a #5 jack. Pretty soon you'll be posting on Hand Tools.;>)

Re: Raising the panel

#3

Re: P.S.

Hank Knight

That's a nice looking panel!

Re: Raising the panel

#4

Adam of Oakland

Re: Raising the panel

Adam of Oakland

why not leave htat little triangular piece connected by just a hair during the bevel cut, and then shear it off by the small sliver of wood still connecting it to the piece? the finish planing will clean it all up nicely. i try to do this on cuts like this. just today i'm making a run of picture frames and the inner rabbet is done this way. just whip out my shoulder plane and i'm ready to rock and roll...

-Adam of Oakland, CA, USA

Re: Raising the panel

#5

Kneale Brownson

Not a "better" way, but I use a router in a table


Re: Raising the panel

#6

Re: Raising the panel

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

What you suggest works on the long grain waste. The short grain waste on the ends can split off pieces, which then can wedge >(

Re: Raising the panel

#7

that's a long story

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

When I sawed the cherry log I saw an attractive grain pattern emerging. A 19" wide clear 5/4 board was sawed next, destined for a future table top on something yet to be envisioned.

When it was decided to build son in laws chest of drawers from this cherry lumber we spent hours going over the available pieces. Nothing available was going to glue up to make attractive flat panel sides. I like sides to be made of two boards, ideally cut from the same long board with the grain vees >>>>> running the same way on each, and pointing up. It was not to be.

However, this piece cut for a future top was ideal for making a frame and panel side. One end of the board had a nasty twist and I was thankful I had the 5/4 thickness to get it flat. Frame and panel sides are much more labor to make given the old fashion way I make them. Actually, the whole case is a lot of labor to make given the old fashioned way I make them. But I hope to get the case glued up soon, all 41 pieces of it.

Re: Raising the panel

#8

Re: Raising the panel

John in NM

I do them in a similar fashion, only I use a box jig with the panel clamped to it. The jig makes it easier to run the panel through since it's more stable and you don't need to set up the feathers. The advantage to avoiding the featherboards & aux fences is that you can make just one pass and that triangular piece just falls onto the table (my saw is right tilt also, so the fence is on the left and I'm standing on the left side of the saw while doing this operation).

I don't do a lot of raised panels, but I did do a lot of them when I worked for a shop. I started using this method to rough out the panel so I could do a single pass on the shaper rather than the 3-4 passes that were the standard practice in that shop.

Re: Raising the panel

#9

The (long) story on the #4.

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

When we had the lumber business I had a wholesale account where I could buy Hock and LN tools, 50 and 33% off list. Experimenting became cheaper for me than most.

During a visit to College of Redwoods I saw that I was going to need to learn to plane and chisel to be able to fit parts at the quality I wanted. This started a plane odyssey that largely ended with my "go-to" #5 repaired Stanley Bed Rock, and wasted a bunch of time and money along the way as I grasped at this plane and that trying to overcome my lack of planing experience. I would have to say that I arrived at a moderately successful state in spite of the Hand Tool Forum and other conflicting advice.

Advice to the on-lookers......Buy any Stanley style #4 and a #5. Learn to sharpen and set the cap iron (AKA misnamed "chip breaker"). The shorter length of a #4 may be necessary at times, even if you prefer, or don't, the ergonomics of the #5. Once proficient, expand plane collection to meet personal needs and desires.

Back to the story of the #4.....Following visit to College of Redwoods I built several Krenov style planes. They work, but tried my patience diddling with them. The stability of metal and convenience of screw adjusters made Stanley a lot of business from practical builders for good reason.

Then I bought a LN 4 1/2 with a high angle frog that was to "solve" my tear-out issues. It will appear for sale soon. It was like pushing a boat anchor around, but it was effective for planing surfaces, something I decided sand paper was better for.

Bed Rocks were extolled by the Hand Toolers but they were expensive at the time (not so any longer). I bought one needing a handle and flattening, and I bought the LN #4. Neither solved my tear-out issues, at the time, but they worked well enough that I used them for fitting parts. I came to prefer the light weight and balance of the #5.

As I saw Stanley #4's and 5's in good shape for a good price (less than $35) I bought a few with anticipation I would give them or sell them to those needing an entry level plane, like a son in law.

Plane Epiphany! I discovered Kato and Kawai and the "cap iron effect", followed by Kees seminal video showing that it was easy to set a cap iron to mitigate tear-out. When my stomach was no longer in knots fearing an irreparable divot would be removed while planing, my use of my plane collection ballooned. I soon gained the experience of what I needed for what I did and how I did it, namely mostly part fitting.

I bought a $300 Norris plane to see if it was so wonderful that I would eschew sand paper for refining surfaces like table tops. I sold it an bought another pack of hook and loop for the ROS.

I have my go-to #5 Bedrock preferred for it lightness and good "feel", set with a tight cap iron and fine shaving. It planes anything almost regardless of grain orientation. A #4 LN and a Stanley #3 supplement when a shorter plane is needed. A Stanley #5 is set up as a scrub plane for taking twist out of panels and other fast stock removal tasks. And another #5 is set up for a heavier shaving than the Bed Rock.

Bottom line advice. Any plane will work for most planing tasks once you learn to set it up. Any Stanley #4 or 5 will accomplish most of one's planing needs once sharpening and setting the cap iron is mastered. These planes are now readily available for $25-$35, Bed Rocks for less than $150. I just sold a mint Bedrock #4 for $130 that exactly duplicated the LN #4 and was happy to get this much. Learn to sharpen and set the cap iron on one of these planes. After gaining experience buy other planes to meet your personal needs. I would like to have a LV plane but I can't justify the expense for I doubt it will do anything better than what I have. But the allure of a state of the art new plane is strong.

Re: Raising the panel

#10

What is a box jig?

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

Sounds like something I need to have.

Re: Raising the panel

#11

Re: Raising the panel

AZ in Colorado Springs

I do something similar. Although I make the cuts in the opposite order.

My auxiliary fence has a box the fits over the fence, and slides back and forth along the length of the fence. There is a board about 12" tall screwed to this, and it has a vertical cleat at the back (trailing) edge. The panel gets clamped to the auxiliary fence and no feather boards. Nothing gets trapped.

I get your concern about chipout on that final cut, but trimming only a couple of 32d, it just isn't a problem.

Re: Raising the panel

#12

Re: Raising the panel *LINK*

Lee Schierer in McKean, PA

I've done raised panels on my table saw for many years. I make the first face cuts with a router with a round nose bit and then tilt the blade to the desired angle and raise it until the teeth are just tangent to the bottom of the groove.

Since the triangular cut offs fall free from the blade, they cannot be trapped between the fence and the blade, because your panel is in the way.

I have the procedure documented at my web site.

Lee


making raised panels on a table saw

Re: Raising the panel

#13

Re: What is a box jig?

John in NM

Its just a kind of long sled that you can clamp the panel to, usually pretty tall on the blade side and shorter on the fence side, maybe 12 inches wide on the bottom and the whole thing about 18-24 long. Triangular gussets keep the bottom square to the taller side (or both if you like), and I often drill large holes in the taller side for clamping panels to it.

Re: Raising the panel

#14

Re: The (long) story on the #4.

Hank Knight

An interesting journey.You seem to have ended up in a good place. I was under the impression that you relied almost entirely on sandpaper and occasionally your #5. I'm sorry you didn't have a good experience with your Norris. My A5 is my very favorite plane. Different strokes, etc.

Re: Raising the panel

#15

Re: The (long) story on the #4.

Bruce, a MN Galoot

You should go visit Bill and see how he does what he does. I did. You don’t live that far from him. His work doesn’t take a back seat to anyone’s.

Re: Raising the panel

#16

Kneale Brownson

Pictures?


Re: Raising the panel

#17

Re: Pictures?

John in NM

I'd love to, but I won't be back to where my shop is for a couple more weeks.

Re: Raising the panel

#18

Norris was a good purchase.

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

The Norris was a good purchase. It confirmed that I have no interest in hand planing "show" surfaces. For me hand planing is a means of removing wood in a controlled fashion that can be much faster than sanding, when needed. For example, planing removed the saw marks from the raised bevel faster than hand sanding. But once the saw marks were removed, the surface was refined with sand paper to prepare for finishing.

I am sure that if I only hand planed a cherry top then stained it as I normally do, it would be too dark and blotchy. The burnishing from hand sanding aids uniform pigment staining. I can stain end grain to the same degree as flat grain if I sand it, for example.

Re: Raising the panel

#20

Ok

John in NM

Bug me if you don't see one in a couple weeks. I should remember to do it next time I'm up there, but you never know, all it takes is a busy week at work and I forget the important stuff :D

Re: Raising the panel

#21

Re: The (long) story on the #4.

John in NM

Did you ever try a 5 1/4? That was one of my favorites for use as you use your #5 when I was working in a shop full time. It has the length of a #5 but is narrow and light - great for lots of odd fitting jobs and can also work as a scrub if needed.

Mine was an old cheaper version (I've forgotten what Stanley called the cheap line) and had a minor crack in the body that became major after an unfortunate drop on the floor.

I think if I were to have just one plane, it would probably be a #5, its just about the most useful all around size.

Re: Raising the panel

#22

Table saw panel raising jig......

roger lance

Bill.....here is a jig I made over 30 years go that was first made to cut tapers on the table saw. I've long since replaced that part of the jig with one for the band saw which is both safer and has increased capacity.

The upright was later added to the right side of the jig to raise panels on the table saw (which is a right tilt Uni). The upright is at a right angle to the table saw top, has a fence that is at a right angle, and has openings to accommodate clamping of the panel to be raised.




Spring has finally found Michigan......

Re: Raising the panel

#23

Jig that does not require tilting blade ..

Tim Greif - West of Chicago

Someone posted this jig many years ago over on Badger Pond. This allows the blade to be vertical and the piece sits in the slanted jig. The wide base looks very stable and simply rides along the fence. Sorry for the poor pic quality. I believe this was back in 2001.


Re: Raising the panel

#24

Comments on Jig shown

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

I should have known that the font of jig knowledge would provide a solution :) Fine Woodworking should travel to your shop and do a feature on jigs.

The skinny vertical pieces demand a stable plywood. Anyone know where to find some >(

How about this vertical piece be made solid but with holes like Duffiled's bench. (well maybe not that many)? The stops on two F-style clamps could be ground off. The bar of the clamp could be slipped through a nearby hole in the vertical board and the board to be beveled secured?

Re: Raising the panel

#25

Re: Jig that does not require tilting blade ..

William Duffield

I don't understand how that jig has any advantages over a vertical jig. The table saw blade is designed with an adjustable tilt angle that is fairly easy to set and measure, while that jig is more complicated to make than a vertical jig, and it locks you in to the choice of only one bevel angle for all your panels.

That said, I have never felt the need for any panel raising jig. I have always found the fences on the table saws I have used to be high enough and stable enough to raise the panels without any auxiliary fence, as long as the saw table and fence are clean, smooth and well waxed.

👍 This page answered my questions

Your vote helps other woodworkers quickly find the answers and techniques that actually work in the shop.