Hand Rubbed Oil Finish Floor

Re: Oil takes time to cure.... *LINK*

JL

>Which oil did you use? Boiled linseed oil or tung oil? I've had some luck on small pieces by taking them out and letting them sit in the sun. But I'm using tung oil and poly. I guess the ultraviolet rays in the sunlight give a "kick" to the oil to help it polymerize. Of course you can't do that with a floor!

I've occasionally used the portable halogen lamps when it was dark or rainy for a similar purpose. Do you have any "inconspicuous" places to try it in - like a closet?

I've given a link to Steven Russell's Oil Finish Primer page. Maybe you'll find something there. Also, here is a link to a drying oil page.

http://www.answers.com/topic/drying-oil-1

Good luck.


Oil Finish Primer

Oil/Poly finish

Ellis Walentine

>Many woodworkers mix finishes, so it is not surprising to find someone who echoes any pet theory you may have. Some are successful, some are not. The author of the article you cited had success with his wipe-on, diluted linseed oil and polyurethane finish -- a combination that is fairly commonly used for architectural woodwork and furniture, in various combinations. It is labor intensive because it needs to be rubbed in and rubbed off to leave the desired coating, which is actully quite thin compared to a brushed coat of regular varnish or polyurethane. That's a lot of work for a floor.

From your description, it sounds like you decided to mix stain into your finish. This is an accident waiting to happen, in my opinion. You didn't mention the type of stain, but I'm assuming it is an oil-based stain, which could have any of a number of oils and solvents in it. The bottom line is that you mixed a cocktail of unknown elements, including pigment stain, and now you're seeing drying problems. That is understandable, as finishes are not universally calibrated to mix well and dry predictably, especially if they contain long oils such as linseed and whatever is in your stain.

I am not a fan of mixing stain into finish. It turns your varnish into a paint, and the more you add, the more color you deposit. This is the theory of the old "stain-varnishes" of 50 years ago, and their more recent counterparts. What you've done is to mix your own formulation, and you've run into a compatibility problem that is retarding drying. If you had wanted to change the color of the wood, it would have been better to do it before finishing.

The other problem with using a long oil in combination with a varnish is that you have to wipe off all the excess, or else it will take forever to dry. To me, this is wasteful and not worth the trouble. Plus, a finish with all that oil in it is not very resistant to abrasion from foot traffic.

That's all water over the dam. At this point, I think I would try to remove as much of the excess as you can as soon as you can, using clean rags and mineral spirits or naphtha. (Don't forget to use an organic vapors mask and provide plenty of ventilation.) Let the floor dry for another 24-48 hours and then, if it seems to be dry to the touch and doesn't yield to a fingernail test, mop or brush on another thin coat of polyurethane or varnish. Test this idea on a sample patch of floor before committing fully to it.

Sorry for your troubles. Let us know what you decide to do and how it works out for you.

Ellis Walentine, Host

why floors are not furniture

Bill Tindall, E.TN

>The idea, well at least my idea, for a floor finish is that the finish is there to protect the wood. To that end I lived 30 years in a farm house with moisture cure urethane over oak, 2 kids and a dog. To make the floor look like new I just ground off a bit of the finish and laid down another coat. There was no wood damage. And I only refinished once in the 30 years.

There is a reason that floor finish is formulated for floors and furniture finish is formulated for floors. Floors need to survive different conditions.

Re: Oil takes time to cure....

Vincent Booth

>Thank you for the tip.

As for the oil, I thought I was being clever and used mineral oil to avoid the odor of linseed and my wife is deathy alergic to tung oil. Upon further investigation I have discover something that should have occured to me, being an organic chemist. Namely, linseed and tung oils are different than mineral oil in their polomerization properties.

I hope that the mineral oil will dry enough to allow the polurethane to actually polomerize. I always use mineral oil on my furniture, but then I'm not walking on my furniture. The kids do, but only occasionally. I'm also a Marine Corps Veteran and can still turn on the Drill voice which is a great deterent to undesired behavior like that.

Re: why floors are not furniture

Vincent Booth

>Point taken. Thanks.

But I'm both adventureous and stoborn.

Worst case, I sand and apply a traditional floor finish.

Re: Oil/Poly finish

Vincent Booth

>Ok, it sounds like my use of mineral oil is a happy mistake, since miner oil is not long oil at all, so I shouldn't have that particular problem. The stain is Minwax penatrating oil stain and the poly is Zinser Polyurethane Professional Floor Finish.

As for the floor, I have wiped the excess and the longer I wait, and write to you guys, the better the finish is starting to look. And I really like the color and the "Aged look" that it has to it.

At most, I will rub in one more coat of diluted poly.

Thank you for the information and advise. As I said earlier, worst case, I sand and reapply.

Re: why floors are not furniture

Andy Halterman: I like cooler weather

>If you really want an oil type look, check out the waterlox finishes. There was a thread about them here a day or two ago. The new satin formula goes on great with a 1/4" nap roller.

Other than that, Bill pegged it.

Andy Halterman

Done for the day in Hendersonville, NC�

Re: Oil/Poly finish

Vincent Booth

>This particular floor is about 600 sq ft white oak and I was going for a slightly distressed look, lightly scraped the floor before finishing, so I can live with what I get.

But I have another 300 sq ft of Brazillian Cherry that I want to look more formal, as it is in the formal dinning and study at the front of the house. This has been a learning experience, thank you for contributing to that.

I *will* stain the BC first and then apply the floor finish, as suggested.

I'll let you know how that one turns out also.

Re: Oil/Poly finish

Fred Davis

>Vincent,

Every Brazilian Cherry Floor I had anything to do with was a dark red with black streaks, why would you try to stain that?

FredD

Hmm.

Ellis Walentine

>Mineral oil is often used for cutting boards and salad bowls, but never for any other furniture or woodwork that I can recall, as it never dries. I suspect it will inhibit drying of everything else you've applied to your floor. I wish I could come up with a suggestion for you, but I can't. Maybe someone better versed in the chemistry of finishes can sort this out.

Ellis Walentine, Host

Re: Hand Rubbed Oil Finish Floor

Robin Corell in Atascadero CA

>The thinner you use can also effect the drying time for a finish. Turpentine or gum spirits has a slight drying effect similar to japan drier or cobalt oil. The drying effect of turp is no where near as drastic as japan dryer or cobalt oil but when compared to mineral spirits it can make a diference.

Robin

P.S.

Jason Roehl in Lafayette, IN

>Andy forgot to toot his own horn here a bit: he is a professional wood flooring guy...

The only thing I would add is to get some air moving. Anytime you need finish to get going, increase temperature, reduce humidity (save for the moisture-cure finishes), and increase airflow.

Personally, I'm not into mixing finishes. I understand the tinker mentality, but the bottom line is that with all the finishes on the market, there are a lot of chemists spending a lot more man-hours in testing those finishes and combinations of finishes than I ever possibly could.

Jason (re-finished a number of floors myself...)

Re: Oil/Poly finish

Vincent Booth

>I asked myself the same question. I love the look of this wood just as it is. A couple of coates of poly really bring it out too.

The answer, you've already guessed it...

I'm married. To a Woman.

I built her kitchen cabinets in our last home myself from Brazillian Cherry. Hard wood floor actually. Picked up a couple of hundred square feet at Lumber Liqudators for a song. Even after the waste of trimming the T&G, it was less than $@ a sq ft, and select to boot.

I thought it looked great then too. But it was her kitichen, she works in thre not me, so I applied Minwax's Sedona Red, which really just brought out the red, and poly'ed it.

Turned out real nice. That kitchen was what sold that house in a CA dumping market. Got out just in time. In more ways tha one. San Diego used to be fairly conservative, no it's the new San Fran.

Re: Hmm.

Vincent Booth

>When Imentioned using mineral oil, I meant to bring out the natural luster of already hand finishe furniture.

As it worked well ther, I (Naievly) thought it would be a good substitute for linseed. Myv wife has asthma and alergies to most everthing. I have used linseed oil before and it dissagres with her strongly, and she is highly alergic to Tung oil.

So I thought mineral oil. Works for buffing that dinner table, very well, and has really brought it to life.

Hopefully the white oak will soak up the mineral oil enough for me to eventually apply a proper finish. It is dry to the touch now but still stains a white rag if rubbed hard. Not much, but still.

Thank you for your, and the other guys', input.

Live and learn. It's just a floor. A floor that will have to be refinished eventually.

Re: Hand Rubbed Oil Finish Floor

Vincent Booth

>Thanks, but can't stand turpentine. Not to mention just won't use it arround my kids. Did I mention that I'm an organic chemist? I get enough exposure at work. Not that mineral spirits is likely to be all that much better, eh?

What is this Japan drier and cobalt oil?

Re: About 1/3 to 1/2 way down on...

JL

>Steve Russell's page.

"Driers are oil soluble metal salts of organic acids. When these driers are dissolved in aliphatic or aromatic hydrocarbons, they are known as siccatives. When driers are added to drying oils, they are known as Boiled Oils. Traditionally, driers contained combinations of oil-soluble metal salts like Cobalt and/or Manganese with Zirconium, Lead or Calcium salts of 2-ethylhexanoic acid or naphtenic acids. Cobalt and Manganese salts act as surface driers and aid in the drying of the film on the surface, where oxygen concentrations are the highest."

Re: Hmm.

Barbara Gill, Remlik VA

>Vincent, I am glad to hear you are married to a woman but please don't use it as a reason for staining Brazilian Cherry. I really don't think staining is gender related. :-)

Re: Hmm.

Vincent Booth

>Good point. As as sexist, and by sexist, I mean that I do believe that men and women *are* different, equal but different, and that is good, I often fall into the habit of speaking as if only to men in a forum such as this. Sorry. No offense was meant and should not have been assumed.

It would be more accurate to say that MY wife has a different idea of what makes wood beautiful than do I. A matter of taste rather than gender, I'm sure. Since I care more for her than the natural beauty of wood, I will stain Brazillian Cherry. If I were not married, I would not.

LOL

Barbara Gill, Remlik VA

>No offense taken but I couldn't resist calling you on it.

I had to look that up

Ellils Walentine

>Since I have not looked at a television for the past 40 years and don't follow these things, I had no notion of Mr. Rumpole or his utterances. I think you are referring to the renowned barrister's advice to never plead guilty. :-)

Lawyer jokes. Yeesh. I have a few of those myself. :-/

Ellis

Re: Who's this guy "Ellils"???? :^)

Dave Bair, Eaton Rapids, MI

>Nobody we know, I'm sure. Jeez, no TV in 40 years? Sounds vaguely unamerican to me.