WoodCentral Forums

Est. 1998 — 27 years of woodworking knowledge

PS, RS, and QS in oak frames and panels (10 pix)

Posts

PS, RS, and QS in oak frames and panels (10 pix)

#1

PS, RS, and QS in oak frames and panels (10 pix)

Tom Sontag - St. Louis

>Paying attention to grain patterns with ring porous hardwoods like oak and ash is an important step in a woodworker's maturation. I still have a piece or two I made before I discovered this and frankly, they are hard to look at now. Even though I have since learned to pay attention, I have never seen a systematic review of what different effects were available. So for fun I made three oak frames and three oak panels, stained them to highlight the grain a bit, and interchanged them based upon the grain patterning of how the board was cut from the log. There are nine different combinations. (I was not too exacting with my finishing).

To review, below you see the three frames, with the quartersawn (QS) one at bottom with its annual rings running vertically in the picture and the medullary rays, which radiate from the pith outward, being horizontal. Where the ray surfaces on the face of the board is what yields the showy figure. In the middle is the riftsawn (RS frame, with both rings and rays on diagonals. The plainsawn (PS) frame on top is more like most boards you buy when you buy oak showing the prominent grain patterning of the annual rings on its face.


Here are the three combinations all using the PS frame with PS panel first, RS panel next, and the QS panel third:


In my opinion, none of these are particularly satisfying combinations because the wild uncontrolled grain of the frame is so distracting. And since PS is what you usually get when you buy without paying close attention, this is reason number one to think these things through when you design and when you select boards for a project.

Next, the RS frame with PS, RS and QS panels:


Notice how the frame receeds and lets the panel be the focus? If you are going to use a ring porous wood, I'd almost always default to the RS frame for this reason. Note how quiet and unobtrusive the RS/RS one is? I like the effect but it could be considered almost too quiet; the action of the other two panels can be used to quite good effect, keeping in mind what happens with the other parts of the project that aren't frame and panel construction.

Next, the QS frame with PS, RS and QS panels:


These aren't subtle, huh? Yet i could imagine finding a way to make the last two work. The PS panel is just an outta control visual, like watching a group of leopards go at it with a family of tigers. The RS panel might be a way to calm down a piece with lots of QS material. Most ww'ers seem to like the boisterous use QS with QS; a few craftsman era pieces depend on it.

Anyhow, draw your own conclusions. I've sprinkled mine in here and they are only my opinions. What do you think?

(Sorry for the dictatorial style; it seemd the quickest way to convey lots of info).

Re: PS, RS, and QS in oak frames and panels (10 pix)

#2

Great thread

Dan Donaldson

>It really helps to have models to look at to help see what combinations can look like and to help avoid some of them. This should get captured on the articles page.

Re: PS, RS, and QS in oak frames and panels (10 pix)

#3

Re: PS, RS, and QS in oak frames and panels (10 pi

Bill Tindal, E.TN

>you have just taught a dozen people to hate their factory oak kitchen cabinets.

I like to frame a panel with rift cut lumber and make the panel from flat sawed lumber with the "vees" pointing up as shown in these ash doors.


img

Re: PS, RS, and QS in oak frames and panels (10 pix)

#4

Fantastic article!

Pat Evans

>That should be mandatory reading for any woodworker. Great job and much appreciated!

The RS frame with QS panel is a great way of showing off the beauty of the grain, but the QS frame with RS panel is really eye catching. By having more interest in the frame than in what is framed, it really draws the eye to it.

Re: PS, RS, and QS in oak frames and panels (10 pix)

#5

Re: PS, RS, and QS in oak frames and panels (10 pi

Barry Irby

>Thanks, it is great of you to post this. I would like to see them with flat (not raised) panels also.

Sometimes I am amazed at what I don't know. Sometimes I did not even know that I did not know.

I am making a huntboard now using quarter sawn heart pine for all the flat parts and rift sawn for the legs. I am thinking of making the door panels out of plain sawn wood to get the wild grain. Also considering making the panels interchangeable so I can change them if I want to.

Seeing your photos has been a revelation for me. I think it's about a level of control I had not fully thought through. Thanks again.

Re: PS, RS, and QS in oak frames and panels (10 pix)

Edited #6

Re: PS, RS, and QS in oak frames and panels (10 pi

Al Stokka - Cambridge, Iowa

>Also considering making the panels interchangeable so I can change them if I want to.

Barry,

Iffn you make the panels removeable (I like the idea), be sure to beef up the frame joints. Like with real mortises & tenons rather than the usual stub tenons. You'll lose the strength of the panel.

Al

Re: PS, RS, and QS in oak frames and panels (10 pix)

#7

Ellis Walentine

Very nice, Tom

Ellis Walentine

>Your article is well done and to the point, not to mention that it addresses one of the most needed and poorly understood topics in design. I took the liberty of editing your HTML so the photos are grouped horizontally for easier navigating.

Thanks so much for going to this trouble. You have served a lot of people very well. A picture is worth a thousand words.

Cheers,

Ellis

Re: PS, RS, and QS in oak frames and panels (10 pix)

#8

thank you sir

Tom Sontag - St. Louis

>Your touch makes the article flow much better. Heck, I was proud to get more than one picture in the post!

Re: PS, RS, and QS in oak frames and panels (10 pix)

#9

Re: PS, RS, and QS in oak frames and panels (10 pi

George@Colonel's Workshop-Havertown PA

>Good Afternoon Tom,

Every once in awhile I read something which enhances my understanding neyond cerebral comprehension. Your concise write-up and illustrations were very well organized and clear. Thanks.

George

Re: PS, RS, and QS in oak frames and panels (10 pix)

#10

Re: PS, RS, and QS in oak frames and panels (10 pi

Larry in NW Ohio

>Tom I can`t say it any better than Ellis and the Colonel, I even understood it and that`s doing some. Thanks Larry in Ohio

Re: PS, RS, and QS in oak frames and panels (10 pix)

#11

I hope you publish somewhere

Bill Tindal, E.TN

>

Re: PS, RS, and QS in oak frames and panels (10 pix)

#12

Steven Antonucci

Wow.

steve antonucci

>The visuals go a long way towards illustrating a great point- a little bit goes a long way!

I like the rift sawn panel with the rift sawn rails and styles. The ray flake in the QS panel was too over-the-top for me. If the QS piece had been less so, I think it would have been more subtle.

Absolutely great article. Required reading for Arts and Crafts people.

Steven

Re: PS, RS, and QS in oak frames and panels (10 pix)

#13

how about, uh, here?

Tom Sontag - St. Louis

>

👍 This page answered my questions

Your vote helps other woodworkers quickly find the answers and techniques that actually work in the shop.