First Hand Plane?

Re: First Hand Plane?

mikew

>Hi Charles,

What is it you wisht to do with a plane?

If chamfering, easing edges, and or removing jointer marks from the edges of boards, go for the block plane.

If greater wood removal is desired, or truing edges, or smoothing surfaces go for a longer handplane.

Take care, Mike

Re: First Hand Plane?

Charles Jackson III

>Basic hand planning, like jointing and planning boards flat.

Here we Go Again *LINK*

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

>Get yourself a cup of coffee and start reading the heated debates from the past two weeks.

Dan Clermont


First Plane

Re: First Hand Plane?

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>I would suggest getting a #4 bench plane as the first plane. I would buy a used Stanley Bailey pattern plane off ebay or at a flea market or garage sale. I would throw away whatever blade you get with it and buy a Hock or LN iron for it. I would buy David Charlesworth's book that tells you how to tune and use the plane, and go to work with it. This would give you a very good start without many of the frustrations that most of us experienced. It would cost more than just buying a cheap plane, but it would be money wisely invested without wasting a bunch of time and money. You will also need something to sharpen the iron with.

Re: First Hand Plane?

Paul in NJ

>Charles,

I would try to find a knowledgable woodworker in your area to show you some planes and what they might do if sharpened and adjusted properly. Perhaps there is a woodworking club or guild in your area where you might find a hand plane user. Another good place where you might connect is a living history museum where their task is to educate. Perhaps a one or half day course at a school if you could afford that. Most woodworkers are happy to share their hard earned skills and I have learned a lot that way. The most important thing in my opinion is for beginners to decide what they actully want to accomplish with their planes, whether it is smoothing to avoid sanding, flushing up joints, shaping wood, etc. Good luck in quest!

Paul Dzioba

Hmmm.... I've seen this movie before.

HC Sakman @ Victoria, BC

>Get an adjustable mouth, decently made block plane first. Old, new whatever, has to be decent.

Chico...

Re: First Hand Plane?

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

>Hi Charles

get a 5 or 5 1/2 size plane. A 4 is too short to reliably joint longer boards.

I prefer the extra width of the 5.5

Good Luck

Dan Clermont

Re: Hmmm.... I've seen this movie before.

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>What's wrong with this picture (again)?

Why can't a large group of experienced, helpful hand plane users come to any sort of consensus whatsoever on the best first plane? Why do so may give you a definitive answer without even asking you any pertinent questions? Does everyone have an axe to grind here? Do none of us have any common experiences? Do none of us remember what it was that was bad about our worst or best early planing experiences? Do we all wear blinders? What is it about Bailey bench planes that draws so many like moths to a flame?

Do not choose a new plane from Stanley or Record or Anant or Groz or Buck Brothers or Kunz as your first, second, third, or fourth plane. They are, each and every one, a pig in a poke.

Remarkably, you don't have to limit your first plane choice to those with one digit numbers.

Maybe you should consider a Kunz #75. It's the lowest quality implementation of the worst plane ever designed. If they had been equipped with these instead of box cutters, there would now be about twenty convicted Al Qaida hijackers in prison, instead of just one. After you have tried to tune, sharpen and use one of these, you will be more than ready to accept just about any other plane anyone recommends to you, and believe that, with that plane in your hand, the World couldn't be a better place. Of course, others will warn you that "You gotta pay your dues, if you wanna sing the blues."

OTOH, if you just want beauty, clarity of purpose, high quality, never any fear that you may need to make lemonade, flexibility for many common (but, by no means, all) planing tasks, then choose a Lie-Nielsen #62. If you feel you cannot afford it, then choose the Veritas equivalent.

You will need a second plane, and a third, and a fourth, because no plane does everything well, or even at all. After all these years of typing when I should have been making shavings, I've never seen anyone pose the much more important quesion: "My first plane is a #!@#$%: Now, what should my second plane be?" Much more often, I suspect, instead of seeking further refinement of the truth, they jump right in with "Your first plane must be a # !@#$%."

I agree

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>The first plane that I was able to get good results from was the LN low angle jack, #62. Since then, the LV version has entered the market and it, too, is reputed to do a very good job. Both these planes will work out of the box, saving you piles of time and money.

Neither will satisfy as your only plane, but at the point you find one of these is not doing the job that you want, you'll know much more and better be able to sift through these recommendations.

Pam

If I may from a new user

John Hoffman

>Here is the deal from an intermediate hand tool woodworker. I started with the record/stanley thinking the Lie-Nielsen was too much to spend for something I may not like to do. There was an article in Pop Wood about how all tools cost $1,000 because we buy junk first then upgrade. Anyway, you will like hand tools. So if you buy a Lie Nielsen you won't go wrong as you will use it a lot and it will be like your first tattoo, (will lead to another). I would buy the number 5 Jack as you can use it to smooth or to joint the edges of shorter boards. The main lesson I have learned is that you will decide how to work and then will know which tools you want to use for which operations. If you don't like hand planes you can easily sell your Lie Nielsen for almost what you paid. If you buy a cheaper plane it will cost more in the long run and lead to frustration.

Sorry for the length, had a couple of beers. A great article on this is Chris Schwarz Coarse, Medium and Fine in Popular Woodworking.

Me too

Frank D. in Montreal

>I have and regularly use both the LV and LN version of the low-angle jack. If my shop burned down and I lost all my planes the first one I would get would be the LV low-angle jack. The extra weight, width, and the fact that the mouth is further back, makes it a little more versatile. The mouth is also a lot easier to adjust. And it's less expensive (although I'd still get it as a first plane even if it was more expensive than the LN 62).

#5

Jim in Burlington On

>

Don't hold back - tell us what you really think!

John Aniano in Central NJ...

>Sir William,

You wrote about the Kunz #75 plane: "...It's the lowest quality implementation of the worst plane ever designed...". You go on from there...

Your comments just make me want to go right out onto Ebay and pay top dollar for one of these beauties to try it out!...

John

Re: #5 - second vote

John Aniano in Central NJ...

>

Re: First Hand Plane?

Greg Sloop, Portland Oregon

>In my experience, a bench sized plane was more useful. The block size was handy, but I found I used the bigger plane a lot more.

For exmaple - early experiences. Cut some tapered legs on the table-saw. I burned one pretty badly. In the past, it would have been a real sanding party to fix it. (Long, dusty and obnoxious.)

Instead, a very quick pass with the bench plane, and it was all fixed.

As for what plane to get?

IMO, the simpleness of bevel-up style planes is very nice for "beginners." No frog to adjust, easy and quick adjustment of the mouth, less touchy lateral adjust etc.

Even when you advance and start using the plane for lots more demanding tasks, you'll find the bevel up design rises easily to meet the task.

As to which version to buy? Well, I had the Lie-Nielsen 62 till around a year ago. When Lee-Valley/Veritas released their 62.5 I sold my on Ebay and took a loss to get the LV. It's far superior in every respect, IMO.

Better/smoother blade adjust, less lash.

The ability to laterally adjust.

Mouth stop, so you don't clonk the iron.

Lever cap is a better, more reliable design etc.

Best of luck,

Greg

advice from sheep farming.........

bill tindall

>If you plan on keeping your jointer and sandpaper and mostly use a plane for fitting things, get some No. 4 length of plane and a shoulder plane to go with it for mortise and tennon fitting. A No5 is simply too long for these operations. It will drive you nuts as its length bridges over a 0.002" deep dip that you want to remove a shaving from. None of my furniture making friends use something as long as a No5.

Now what 4 to buy? If a woodworker that uses planes can get you an old Stanley No4 that they will examine and pronounce, nah swear in blood, in excellent working order, that is the best first step and should cost no more than $50. You will use this plane for ever more. However, I will pass along some advice I got from a sheep farmer when I bought my first breeding stock. I asked for ewe lambs(inexperienced). The wise sheep herder looked at me and said, "if you don't know anything about sheep (specifically delivering lambs,usually after midnight as it turns out) then buy some sheep that do (older ewes)".

It was sage advice that applies to getting into many new things. If you are not able to obtain a used plane that you know will work well, then buy a new one that will work out of the box. This advice will enable you to spend many additional hours woodworking rather than messing with an old tool, followed by buying the new plane.

Some people prefer messing with old tools to building. If you fall into this camp ignor above advice. If you plan on replacing your jointer and sandpaper with a stable of planes ignor this above advice. However, if you intend to use a plane simply to make better furniture, write back in 2 years and tell me if my advice was sound. PS you are going to discover that once you know how to sharpen a working plane that it will take your furniture making to a higher degree of refinement, and accomplish some tasks quicker and more accurate than power tools. It all depends on getting a plane that works and getting its blade sharp.

Will someone justify the No5 recommendation?

bill tindall

>Its too long for anything I do and this opinion is shared by all my woodworking friends, people that are in their shop making furniture almost daily.

To be specific, in the context of building furniture , what will a No5 do that a 4 won't do better?

Don't just listen here

Bill Houghton, raining again...in Sebastopol, CA

>Read, too. Your local library will have books on hand tools. Get them all out, especially the new ones. Get confused, since they contradict each other, just like we all did (newer books are probably more useful than older books, because the technology has grown more refined). Then use your best judgment, balancing money you have to spend and time you have to spend on buying something less expensive and cleaning it up.

Recognize that you'll make mistakes in your purchases, unless you decide first to purchase knowledge by going to classes (and probably even then); accept that this is part of the price of learning.

First plane Recommendations (long)

Derek Cohen (in Perth Australia)

>Charles

There is excellent advice above but, as you will note, nothing excites the passions of handtoolers like a discussion on choosing a handplane. There are clearly Schools here - such as adherents to Bevel Up vs Bevel Down, long vs short bench planes, and paying-your-dues vs buy-new - and it is important that these choices not confuse you, or dissuade you from a most satisfying method of woodworking.

One further point on the above - ignore the discussion of the past two weeks (link above) since this was NOT about choosing a first plane but about choosing a single plane.

My recommendation to you, working on the premise that you do not own a handplane, is to get both a decent blockplane and a cheapish #4 benchplane.

In my opinion the most important quality in learning to handplane is feel. Handplanes are not machinery, they are tools that you guide with your hand. It is easier to develop the touch with a light and small plane. You will quickly discover that a block plane is your Best Friend as you use it to trim overhangs, bevel edges, clean up machine marks, and smooth end grain.

There are several choices in a block plane, but I would advise this purchase to be for a new plane - one that will work out of the box so that you can get going straight away. The two companies that come immediately to mind are Lie Nielson and Lee Valley. You cannot go wrong with either. Both make a small block plane (LN have the #102 and #103, while LV have the Apron). I can only speak about the LN #103 from personal experience (I own one). This is a "standard angle" block plane, very heavy in its bronze construction, with a performance that goes way beyond one's immediate expectation from its size. It is superb on both end-and face grain. I had intended buying the #102 and a few years down the track discovered that I should have worn my glasses on the day of purchase (!), but no matter - it does the job just as well. Still, if I were buying afresh, a low angle version is more flexible. Both the #102 and the Apron have excellent reviews.

A larger block plane is the LN 60 1/2 (again I own this one) and the LV LA Block Plane. I love my LN - it is a comfortable size for me, and I love its look (yeah, I know this should come into the equation). The LV is larger (I already had a Stanley #65, which is a similar size) and probably more versatile as a result (it is easier to use as a small bench plane as the blade is wider). The LV also comes with a range of accessories, such as a add-on tote and a chamfer guide. If I were only buying one block plane, I'd probably go for the LV as a result. Both are constructed to a very high level of quality.

Now I also said get a cheapish #4, and try and make this a pre-WW II model Stanley. The aim here is to get take it apart, clean it up, tune it, fine-tune it, fiddle and play. This is another part of the learning path. I do not believe that one must "pay one's dues" if this means doing it the hard way. However, it is important that you understand the dynamics of planing, and this comes from experience. Why a #4 and not something larger? Again, because you are just setting out on a new path and the #4 is easier to manage and get a feel with. It is a more versatile size. Plus you will need a smoother and the basic #4 on undemanding wood does a good job, and it is possible to upgrade it with a new blade. A larger plane, such as a #5 1/2, while an excellent general use plane, is too large for a novice. More experienced users will say that they wished they owned one earlier, but it takes time to get to that stage to be able to say this. Incidentally, my first plane was a #3 (from my father-in-law) and my next was a #5 1/2 (which I continue to use very frequently). It is all in the timing.

Certainly consider a new #4-size plane. And if you do so, I will always recommend a bevel up design here. These are just more versatile and easier to use than a bevel down plane. Getting the above two planes will enable you to explore this aspect for yourself. Both LN and LV make these types of planes, wilth my preference being the LV LA Smoother (the LN version is the #164) since it is cheaper and has a few additional features that puts its nose ahead of the LN in regard to user-friendliness. The end performance of both is much the same.

Lastly, get a decent blade sharpening set up. At the end of the day you will only plane as best as the blade permits.

Enjoy.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Oh My Lord....! No need for your fury.

HC Sakman @ Victoria, BC

>Your highness is absolutely correcto-domando. We should indeed write an article (collaboration) and link that article to this type of questions, which are asked very, very often.

BTW, I was just poking fun with the title. I have no problem with Baileys. Goes great with ice! ;-)

Seriously, any decent old plane is eligible.

Let's write it up and then somebody can edit and combine every contributers' points.

Have a nice evening my lord. (walking backwards...as I am outta here. ;-)

Chico...

Don't you mean....

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond,CA

>A shot (or 3) and a nice cold one...

Oh how I love degradeing posts!

Don't do it Charles!

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond,CA

>As you can surley read in all your responces it's better to just walk away. Leave all your hopes and dreams of owning a hand plane behind you.

Go back to your power tools and please watch your fingers!

As you can plainly see 1 plane is never enough. Soon you'll be haning around flea markets, the next in a van down by the river...

Beware of the the dark side young one.

If you truly need a light shaver start with a No. 5 and play with it.

A lot... BTW they don't sharpen them selves;^)

Re: Don't you mean....

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

>I like your idea about the cold ones better then the coffee. Good thinking.

Dan Clermont (who has a Pub at his workplace ;))

What should my second plane be

Alice Frampton, UK

>You're not hanging out with the right people, William; I've definitely seen that question more than once. Often it gets answered at the same time as the "Which plane should I get first" question, whether the OP asked it or not... :~)

Cheers, Alf