Tuesday Puzzle

2/10/09, 12:20 PM #1

Dan Donaldson
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Registered: 9/17/01

Tuesday Puzzle

First, thanks to Alex for covering for me. I had almost no computer access for the last couple of weeks.

OK, here is one that in one form or another is a classic. If you have seen it before, please let someone that has not take a shot before you answer.

There is a road that comes to a fork. One fork leads to a village where the residents always tell the truth. The other to a village where everyone always lies. You are traveling to the village of truth, but are not sure which fork to take. At the fork there are two people, one from each village, but you do not know which is which. You are allowed one question. What question would you ask to figure out which fork to take?

- - -

I have been woodworking for about 25 years now, and would consider myself an enthusiastic amateur. My claim to fame (or infamy) has always been fixing stuff. I spent time in the Air Force in the 60's then went to work as an electronic technician for civil service. I finally got my EE, and being fed up with the civil service nonsense, took a job with Ford Motor Company until I went with the split to Visteon last year. I got interested in music and started playing in a bluegrass band. I wanted a new guitar, and that kind of led me into woodworking. I bought some books, a few tools, and built a guitar. Luckily, I didn't know any better than to try that as a first ever project. I still play it when I get a chance, so it must not be too bad if it can live for over 20 years. After a stint in Mexico for my job, I moved into a new house and built a small shop. Since then I have been collecting tools and skills, probably more of the former than the latter ;-). Finding this site has done more for my skills and enjoyment than anything else. I have learned a lot and really enjoy the friendships that I have made here. I have been married to LOML (Lori) for 32 years now and have 6 kids. When they are all gone, I want to get a 1 bedroom house (so there is not room for them to move back in) and at least a 6 car heated/air conditioned garage for a shop. (Dream on...)

Re: Tuesday Puzzle

2/10/09, 1:24 PM #2

Ken Oakley-Sunny St. Cloud, Fla.
Guest

Re: Tuesday Puzzle

I know the answer but will wait--

Re: Tuesday Puzzle

2/10/09, 2:06 PM #3

Alex Yeilding
Guest

Welcome back

Once the answer to this one is revealed, I have a followup question.

Re: Tuesday Puzzle

2/10/09, 2:24 PM #4

Thomas Skaggs
Guest

Re: Tuesday Puzzle

I dunno...but maybe something like "what color is my shirt"?

T.

Re: Tuesday Puzzle

2/10/09, 4:25 PM #5

Dan Donaldson
Member
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5,264 posts

Registered: 9/17/01

Re: Tuesday Puzzle

That will tell who is lying, but not which way to go.

- - -

I have been woodworking for about 25 years now, and would consider myself an enthusiastic amateur. My claim to fame (or infamy) has always been fixing stuff. I spent time in the Air Force in the 60's then went to work as an electronic technician for civil service. I finally got my EE, and being fed up with the civil service nonsense, took a job with Ford Motor Company until I went with the split to Visteon last year. I got interested in music and started playing in a bluegrass band. I wanted a new guitar, and that kind of led me into woodworking. I bought some books, a few tools, and built a guitar. Luckily, I didn't know any better than to try that as a first ever project. I still play it when I get a chance, so it must not be too bad if it can live for over 20 years. After a stint in Mexico for my job, I moved into a new house and built a small shop. Since then I have been collecting tools and skills, probably more of the former than the latter ;-). Finding this site has done more for my skills and enjoyment than anything else. I have learned a lot and really enjoy the friendships that I have made here. I have been married to LOML (Lori) for 32 years now and have 6 kids. When they are all gone, I want to get a 1 bedroom house (so there is not room for them to move back in) and at least a 6 car heated/air conditioned garage for a shop. (Dream on...)

Re: Tuesday Puzzle

2/10/09, 4:25 PM #6

Dan Donaldson
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5,264 posts

Registered: 9/17/01

Re: Welcome back

Thanks. Had a good trip except for all of the driving.

- - -

I have been woodworking for about 25 years now, and would consider myself an enthusiastic amateur. My claim to fame (or infamy) has always been fixing stuff. I spent time in the Air Force in the 60's then went to work as an electronic technician for civil service. I finally got my EE, and being fed up with the civil service nonsense, took a job with Ford Motor Company until I went with the split to Visteon last year. I got interested in music and started playing in a bluegrass band. I wanted a new guitar, and that kind of led me into woodworking. I bought some books, a few tools, and built a guitar. Luckily, I didn't know any better than to try that as a first ever project. I still play it when I get a chance, so it must not be too bad if it can live for over 20 years. After a stint in Mexico for my job, I moved into a new house and built a small shop. Since then I have been collecting tools and skills, probably more of the former than the latter ;-). Finding this site has done more for my skills and enjoyment than anything else. I have learned a lot and really enjoy the friendships that I have made here. I have been married to LOML (Lori) for 32 years now and have 6 kids. When they are all gone, I want to get a 1 bedroom house (so there is not room for them to move back in) and at least a 6 car heated/air conditioned garage for a shop. (Dream on...)

Re: Tuesday Puzzle

2/11/09, 11:14 AM #7

Dan Donaldson
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5,264 posts

Registered: 9/17/01

Re: Tuesday Puzzle hint

This is version of the prisoner's dilemma. The answer that you get will be in the negative. Also, with a bit of thought, the same method will answer the question that Alex posted above.

- - -

I have been woodworking for about 25 years now, and would consider myself an enthusiastic amateur. My claim to fame (or infamy) has always been fixing stuff. I spent time in the Air Force in the 60's then went to work as an electronic technician for civil service. I finally got my EE, and being fed up with the civil service nonsense, took a job with Ford Motor Company until I went with the split to Visteon last year. I got interested in music and started playing in a bluegrass band. I wanted a new guitar, and that kind of led me into woodworking. I bought some books, a few tools, and built a guitar. Luckily, I didn't know any better than to try that as a first ever project. I still play it when I get a chance, so it must not be too bad if it can live for over 20 years. After a stint in Mexico for my job, I moved into a new house and built a small shop. Since then I have been collecting tools and skills, probably more of the former than the latter ;-). Finding this site has done more for my skills and enjoyment than anything else. I have learned a lot and really enjoy the friendships that I have made here. I have been married to LOML (Lori) for 32 years now and have 6 kids. When they are all gone, I want to get a 1 bedroom house (so there is not room for them to move back in) and at least a 6 car heated/air conditioned garage for a shop. (Dream on...)

Re: Tuesday Puzzle

2/11/09, 11:14 AM #8

Dan Donaldson
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5,264 posts

Registered: 9/17/01

Go ahead ;-)

- - -

I have been woodworking for about 25 years now, and would consider myself an enthusiastic amateur. My claim to fame (or infamy) has always been fixing stuff. I spent time in the Air Force in the 60's then went to work as an electronic technician for civil service. I finally got my EE, and being fed up with the civil service nonsense, took a job with Ford Motor Company until I went with the split to Visteon last year. I got interested in music and started playing in a bluegrass band. I wanted a new guitar, and that kind of led me into woodworking. I bought some books, a few tools, and built a guitar. Luckily, I didn't know any better than to try that as a first ever project. I still play it when I get a chance, so it must not be too bad if it can live for over 20 years. After a stint in Mexico for my job, I moved into a new house and built a small shop. Since then I have been collecting tools and skills, probably more of the former than the latter ;-). Finding this site has done more for my skills and enjoyment than anything else. I have learned a lot and really enjoy the friendships that I have made here. I have been married to LOML (Lori) for 32 years now and have 6 kids. When they are all gone, I want to get a 1 bedroom house (so there is not room for them to move back in) and at least a 6 car heated/air conditioned garage for a shop. (Dream on...)

Re: Tuesday Puzzle

2/11/09, 1:49 PM #9

Alex Yeilding
Guest

Re: Tuesday Puzzle hint

"This is version of the prisoner's dilemma."

I don't see that connection at all.

"The answer that you get will be in the negative."

True if they are thinking of the same solution you are. But there are also many solutions where the answer will be in the positive.

Re: Tuesday Puzzle

2/11/09, 4:36 PM #10

Dan Donaldson
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5,264 posts

Registered: 9/17/01

Re: Tuesday Puzzle hint

For the solution that I am thinking of, I could use the exact same question for either scenario.

I misspoke about the prisoner's dilemma. Thanks for keeping me honest ;-)

- - -

I have been woodworking for about 25 years now, and would consider myself an enthusiastic amateur. My claim to fame (or infamy) has always been fixing stuff. I spent time in the Air Force in the 60's then went to work as an electronic technician for civil service. I finally got my EE, and being fed up with the civil service nonsense, took a job with Ford Motor Company until I went with the split to Visteon last year. I got interested in music and started playing in a bluegrass band. I wanted a new guitar, and that kind of led me into woodworking. I bought some books, a few tools, and built a guitar. Luckily, I didn't know any better than to try that as a first ever project. I still play it when I get a chance, so it must not be too bad if it can live for over 20 years. After a stint in Mexico for my job, I moved into a new house and built a small shop. Since then I have been collecting tools and skills, probably more of the former than the latter ;-). Finding this site has done more for my skills and enjoyment than anything else. I have learned a lot and really enjoy the friendships that I have made here. I have been married to LOML (Lori) for 32 years now and have 6 kids. When they are all gone, I want to get a 1 bedroom house (so there is not room for them to move back in) and at least a 6 car heated/air conditioned garage for a shop. (Dream on...)

Re: Tuesday Puzzle

2/11/09, 5:26 PM #11

Alex Yeilding
Guest

Hmmm. I'll have to think about that

The question I am thinking of for part 2 would suggest an analogous, but not identical, question for part 1.

Before I try to figure out a question that works in both cases, let me check to see if your answer fits some conditions that I did not make explicit. We are looking for a verbal question and a verbal response, and the only two words you know in the native tongue are bal and da. So "Will the left fork take me to the village of truth-tellers" is a "legal" if not very useful question. "Which fork takes me to the village of truth tellers" is also legal, but he needs to answer verbally, not by pointing, and since you don't know the words for left and right, it's not very helpful.

With that clarification, should I continue to look for a question that satisfies both? The only way I can think of to do that is pretty labored (basically "or" the two questions)

Re: Tuesday Puzzle

2/13/09, 2:40 PM #12

Alex Yeilding
Guest

Another solution

Dan gave one solution to this one, in responst to my version two of this puzzle (just substitute "no" or "yes", it matters not which, for "da" in his solution.)

But the solution for this one can actually be less convoluted -- just aske one of the people at the fork which way the other would tell you to go to get to the village of liars, and take that road.

Re: Tuesday Puzzle

2/13/09, 5:24 PM #13

Ed in Leaside
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Registered: 11/3/05

Why not ask ...

"Which is the road to your village"?

Re: Tuesday Puzzle

2/13/09, 6:08 PM #14

Alex Yeilding
Guest

Excellent!

And it works if there is only one person at the fork.

I think you may have found the simplest possible question.

Tuesday Puzzle

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