July 4, Independence Day

Re: July 4, Independence Day

Halifax Resolves? Mecklenburg Declaration of Independence (NC thing)?

As for other countries, certainly France, probably Spain, maybe the Dutch (which leads me to a question: Are Holland and the Netherlands the same country, and why are they called 'Dutch' instead of 'Hollandische'?)

BobH, who has lived a lotta history but not this part

Re: July 4, Independence Day

Are Holland and the Netherlands the same country

Holland is part of Netherlands. They have 12 provinces, two of which are Noord(north)-Holland and Zuid(south)-Holland. I'm not positive that these are all the provinces of Holland, but they are definitely two of them. ;-)

Dave

just exhausted his Netherlands/Holland information store...

Almost made it....LOL

I almost made it thru this forth without hearing or thinking about the "Mecklenburg Declaration of Indepence". That would have been a first for me in 59 years I think....LOL

But I don't care what they say, Andrew Jackson, old hickory, was born right up the road from here in the Waxhaws of South Carolina. Ya'll can keep Pope.

Do you remember any part the Palmetto tree played in the war?

Basil

Re: Almost made it....LOL

Howdy Basil!

You got me on the palmetto's role in the Revolution. I don't have a clue.

However, Ole Hickory was born on the NC side of that line in the Waxhaw's and there's a statue on capitol square in Raleigh to 'prove' it. :>) Jackson shares the plinth with Andy Johnson and J. K. Polk. I was there when it was unveiled and dedicated by Harry S-for-nothing Truman (but a wee lad on me Dad's shoulder, you understand).

And then there's folk in the Smokey's that claim that Lincoln was the bastard child of a no good bunch of ridge runners too. At least they got part of it right.

BobH

And "Dutch?" Where'd That Slip In?

Answer, Independence DAy

Even though we celebrate the adoption of the Declaration of Independence on July 4, 1776, the war of independence was not legally, internationally recognized as complete until the Treaty of 1783 also called the Treaty of Paris (September 3).

The more important articles were:

1. The thirteen states were recognized as free, sovereign, and independent

2. National boundaries were described. The boundaries generally giving the U.S. land from the east coast to the Mississippi (except Florida and westward—including New Orleans)

3. Fishing rights were conceded

4. Involved "bona fide" debt recovery

5. Involved the recommendation of the restoration of loyalist rights and properties

Other provisions returned Prisoners of war, agreed to navigation rights on the Mississippi (which Spain disputed), and that the British should leave the ceded territories.

There were five Commissioners involved with the document but Thomas Jefferson and Henry Laurens did not travel to Europe. The “Americans” signing the treaty were John Jay, Benjamin Franklin, and John Adams.

Britain was also at war with Spain and France. After the treaty, Spain received the “territory” of Florida and laid claim to all west of the Mississippi—including the river. France, by far, got the worst of it because France’s territory in North America was unchanged. It was more important to France that Britain simply vacate the land of the colonies. However, 1. Britain didn’t do as it said it would –which later led to the war of 1812 2. France’s support of the U.S. revolution contributed mightily to the situation that bankrupted France. 3. As a result of the American war in France the inability to levy taxes got so bad economically it in no small way led to their revolution (July 1789). 4. Spain took advantage of France's dilemma to lay claim to the land west of the Mississippi river.

Re: And "Dutch?"

Various combined sites answer. The word Dutch comes from the old Germanic word theodisk, meaning 'of the people. Theodisk in modern German has become DEUTSCH and in Dutch has become the two forms: duits, meaning German, and diets meaning something closer to the existing Dutch people but no longer in general use. (Theodisk survives as tedesco in modern Italian.)

The English word Dutch has also changed with time. It was only in the early 1600s, with growing seafaring trade, gems and spices, cultural contacts and the rise of an independent country, that the modern meaning arose, i.e., 'designating the people of the Netherlands or their language'. Prior to this, the meaning was more general and could refer to any German-speaking area or the languages there (including the current Germany, Austria, and Switzerland as well as the Netherlands).

The Palmetto Tree.

Copied from http://www.richland2.org/rce/revoluti.htm

Fort Moultrie

In 1776, South Carolina troops built a palmetto-log fort on Sullivan's Island to defend Charleston from the British. On June 28, 1776, a week before the Declaration of Independence was signed, the successful defense of this fort in Charleston Harbor gave the colonists an important moral victory.

After the battle, the fort was named for its commander, Col. William Moultrie. In the victory South Carolina found symbols still used in its flag and seal.

The builders of Fort Moultrie used the only material at hand: palmetto trees growing on Sullivan's Island. When the British warships attacked, their cannon balls would only penetrate the spongy wood, not splinter it (actually absorbed them, added by me) and destroy the fort. The palmetto logs were credited with saving Charleston. the city was the leading commercial center and the largest seaport in the South. Its loss early in the war might have been devastating to the Americans.

Thanks, Basil!

As much time as I've spent in SC and in Charleston and even on Sullivan's Island, I'd never heard that (or I forgot it, which is happening all too frequently).

BobH