Half of computers currently in use are about to become scrap this month

I'm, always confused about what existing Windows software, if any, will run on Linux. I have no interest in replacing it all with open source programs that may or may not have the features I want or keep them in future updates. Libra is an example of inconsistent updates. My laptop came with Win 11, but my desktop is not compatible with win 11.

isn't there an application that allows windows 10 PCs that don't qualify to beat the checks on the Win 11 updates?

I wonder what microsoft's angle is here in terms of obsoleting old PCs. There must be something on newer PCs that gives them a lot more data that nobody wants tracked, or makes them easier to overload with bloat and adware.

Added later 44 s:

by the way, win 10 just loses support, right? Otherwise functions until or unless it comes in contact with something infectious?

@Dale Stansbery,


You’re absolutely right that Linux doesn’t run Windows software natively. However, there are several practical options depending on what you use and how tied you are to certain programs.

• Many popular programs already work on Linux. Web browsers like Chrome and Firefox, video conferencing tools like Zoom, and office suites such as LibreOffice or OnlyOffice all have reliable Linux versions.

• For Windows-only programs, there are tools like Wine and Proton that let thousands of Windows applications run on Linux with little or no difference in performance. They don’t cover everything, but they can be surprisingly effective for many common programs.

• Virtual machines are another option. You can run Windows inside Linux using software like VirtualBox or VMware, so you can keep any critical Windows software while using Linux for everything else.

• Stability and longevity. One of Linux’s biggest advantages is that it doesn’t force you to upgrade hardware or drop support because of corporate decisions. If your computer runs well today, it will continue to run well with Linux for years to come. And because Linux is open-source, you’re not at the mercy of a company changing direction or ending support — the community keeps improving it.

So if your desktop doesn’t meet Windows 11’s requirements, Linux can give it a new lease on life without taking away your favorite tools. You can even transition gradually — keep Windows for specific tasks while exploring Linux for everyday use.

My advice is to experiment with an old computer you no longer use, if you have one. Understand that everything on it, if anything, will be wiped out and just try installing Linux on it. Don't try to get fancy with dual boots, setting up emulators, for virtual machines. Keep it simple; just a straight install that overwrites everything on the hard drive.

Because Linux is free and open source, anyone is free to take it and create their own version, so many do. That is why there are so many Linux distributions (distros) available, which can be confusing. However, nearly every Linux distribution today descends from one of these four roots: Debian, Red Hat, Arch, or Slackware.

Debian is #1 in this family and the basis for Ubuntu, Linux Mint, MX Linux, Pop!_OS, and Zorin OS. I would recommend either Ubuntu or Zorin OS for those with no experience. Both have extremely easy installations (boot from a USB drive where installation is mostly just accepting all defaults presented. A full install often takes less than 5 minutes, unlike Windows where I've had it take literally all day.

Here's the link to download Zorin OS. 
https://zorin.com/os/download/17/core/

And Ubuntu:
https://ubuntu.com/download/desktop

They just download an ISO file; nothing is going to install. 

If anyone is interested, I'll explain tomorrow what an ISO file is and how to write it to a USB drive. (You cannot just copy it, it needs a special Windows program to do that.)

What you will need:

1. An old computer you do not use or are willing to wipe all data. Desktop or laptop, not a "Chromebook" or tablet.

2. A USB thumb drive, 8GB or larger. (Smaller is better)

And a sense of adventure. It can be fun when things work. And frustrating when they don't. But aren't all things in life?

@DavidW,

>isn't there an application that allows windows 10 PCs that don't qualify to beat the checks on the Win 11 updates?

There are several, doing a "Rufus install" being one. Reports are that it is hit or miss. I am reading that it can allow Win11 installation, but updates will not work. And no doubt MS will be attempting to detect and disable it and systems upgraded that way.

>I wonder what microsoft's angle is here in terms of obsoleting old PCs. There must be something on newer PCs that gives them a lot more data that nobody wants tracked, or makes them easier to overload with bloat and adware.

Yeah, Win11 is rife with AI and privacy invading "features." You will own nothing (Microsoft will) and be happy!"

>by the way, win 10 just loses support, right? Otherwise functions until or unless it comes in contact with something infectious?

Support for Win10 ends 14 Oct 2025:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/end-of-support?r=1

No more upgrades, security patches, or fixes for known problems. Prepare for an onslaught of millions of bots hitting IPs to find systems running Win10 for security exploits as they are discovered which will be published in lists for hackers.

Ya know what, at my age, I'll just buy a new desktop if I deem that I need it but probably will go with a laptop. My current laptop should last a few more years and the old Win 10 desktop is a back-up anyway. It will probably go on the shelf with my old Win 7 pro and a couple old DOS machines. I remember trying to install the very first Windows, what a POS.

DavidW wrote:

I wonder what microsoft's angle is here in terms of obsoleting old PCs. There must be something on newer PCs that gives them a lot more data that nobody wants tracked, or makes them easier to overload with bloat and adware.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqh_40hyGYw

Here’s a short blog post explaining how to install what I consider the best Linux operating system (GNU/Linux distribution) for older computers — especially for people who aren’t familiar with Linux, don’t care about the technical details, and just want something that works:

How to install Linux Mint

Once you’ve created the USB thumb drive, all you need to do is boot from it, start the installer, press Enter to accept the defaults (mostly), and wait a few minutes for the installation to finish.

If you have never used Linux before, I think you will be shocked at how fast it is, and how overly complicated Windows seems by comparison.

Watching a well-done video is always helpful when not knowing what to expect. This is one of the better ones IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjRwj0V09uY

admin wrote:

DavidW wrote:

I wonder what microsoft's angle is here in terms of obsoleting old PCs. There must be something on newer PCs that gives them a lot more data that nobody wants tracked, or makes them easier to overload with bloat and adware.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqh_40hyGYw

who does microsoft think they are, apple?

I've been waiting for about 28 years to install linux on something and I have a perfect PC to do it. Nothing on the thing but files that I need to back up, anyway. it's way into the range of acceptable for win 11 despite its age (4 core I7, 16 gigs of ram, 1 tb of storage), but the last thing I want to have on it is another win 11

presumably support on linux for bluetooth and USB is OK? This PC is about 8 years old, but it's an HP, which means the keyboard and touchpad don't work.

DavidW wrote:

presumably support on linux for bluetooth and USB is OK? This PC is about 8 years old, but it's an HP, which means the keyboard and touchpad don't work.

Re BT and USB, depends on the Linux version (distro). The Ubuntu family of distros has the best support for this w/o having to tweak things. That's why I chose LInux MInt, based on Ubuntu with a desktop that closely resembles Window 7. [edited 2025-10-09]

Re keyboard and touchpad not working, will it recognize an external USB keyboard and mouse? If so, you should be fine. If an HP, you'll need to tap the F9 key during startup to get it to boot from the USB containing the Linux install.

If it were a ThinkPad, the keyboard and touchpad can be replaced with new ones for about $30 using just a screwdriver. HPs not so much. The cost of a replacement keyboard can often exceed the cost of the entire laptop on eBay. This is the direction we are being forced, to make everything disposable to sell entire new systems, while companies brag about being "green" -- to sell more new systems.  Grrr...I'm calling BS on this hypocrisy.

If the keyboard and touchpad are not economically replaceable, just tuck it away and use it as a "desktop" computer. No laws saying a desktop computer has to look like a desktop computer. Not yet anyway.

yes on the HP - it recognizes external mouse, keyboard, etc without issue - either USB dongle and wireless or bluetooth. 

I am a cheapskate for the home PCs and know well what I'm getting. Just an odd occurrence, but the mrs. arrived with a dell that quickly lost its backlight. we fixed that and then it paperweighted itself a year later. So because I thought she would destroy an HP given their hardware fragility, I got her a lenovo. it paperweighted its harddrive in a year and a half for reasons I don't know - it had an easy life and she rarely used it, and since it wasn't that expensive, we opted to go the disposable route for her, too. Except she uses hers so little that the touchpad and keyboard don't wear out. 

the cheap cost of the HP stuff refurbished is almost insane. It's so cheap sometimes that I'm waiting for the time that I get scammed. You are in a position where you can do with even less than I can because of more knowledge, but the budget here is $100 per PC per year and we are below that. And I always get double the customary ram on a bigger HP laptop and some kind of I7. Last one two years ago has something like 12 or 16 cores. Time has passed me by, but luckily, the prices haven't. 

The tradeoff is that if you are a heavy user, you use the PCs with a mouse and external keyboard pretty quickly. 

Not sure if F9 works on the old PC. if it can't work with ubuntu, I'll just buy another cheap box. Everything I have to do with microsoft is on a work provided PC and the rest of what I do with my own PC is not very need specific other than maybe some of the import microscope software will require a virtual windows boot.

If using Win 10, be sure to do this now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am0O6GpB7qI

@DavidW,

What you are describing is common with consumer-grade computers like you find at Best Buy or other retailers that cater to the public. Most phones and computers are designed for production runs in the millions where a penny saved here and there adds up. They are competing in price and aesthetics. But computers designed to be used in commercial and industrial environments are designed for reliability, functionality, and ease of repair. The race to the bottom to compete on price and how thin and skinny (and fragile) they can make it are not factors. 

Most of this high-end stuff is budgeted to be replaced in three to five-year cycles and then hits the recycle market. Most is stripped down and separated for recycling (a shame IMO as it often has higher specs that what is currently being sold in the consumer world). Some ends up on places like eBay.

Look for used business-class Lenovo ThinkPads, and computers designed to be used in retail environments. It will be interesting to see how prices of used computers is affected by trying to make hundreds of millions of perfectly good computers "junk" in the eyes of Windows users.

I gotta say that I have had a few HP laptops at work.  One I carried to/from work daily in a backpack for several years.  It definitely had some battle scars when I gave it up after switching departments.  Worked fine.  Currently use an HP laptop at work, but it stays put, hooked to a dock box for the most part.  Occasionally, I drag it across the hall to our other office when I need to help cover the front desk because one of our front office staff is off, and the other is at lunch.

I'm not crazy about MS dumping support for Win10, but it doesn't surprise me.  It costs money to keep chasing bugs.  And, as in all things belt-tightening, it seems they have shortened the life cycle of their OS versions over the years.  I just looked it up--release was 10 years and a few months ago.  Seems like XP and 7 lived much longer.  Me and 8 couldn't die fast enough.  But, I'm typing this on a Mac...I don't think I have any Win10 machines that I use anymore between home, work, and church (just bought a laptop for streaming to replace a dead one, and I'm sure that's a 10 > 11 upgrade as well).

Jason

admin wrote:

@DavidW,
Look for used business-class Lenovo ThinkPads, and computers designed to be used in retail environments. It will be interesting to see how prices of used computers is affected by trying to make hundreds of millions of perfectly good computers "junk" in the eyes of Windows users.

If microsoft hasn't explained a reason why they are junking that many computers by spec requirements, there's definitely a reason, and it's definitely for their gain. I'm curious what it is, but almost certainly, it's a data driven reason. Do they feel like a newer system will have people online more and generate more revenue and data stream from the OS than putting it on an old system? I don't know what it is, but there's definitely a reason. 

the lenovo we had was a business PC - stripped down, terrible sound, no video that I can recall - but that was the time if integrated video. What made me get it was at work we switched from dell to lenovo, as that was also the time dell decided they'd save a few bucks on all of their PCs and go to lowest source pricing, and everything went to crap for us with them. The lenovo I had at work was good, and I traveled a lot at the time. 

The one we got was probably just a one off - worked fine for a while, then HD failed and I was busy enough at work that I wasn't interested in repairing it. I started with one of the large HP DV7 laptops for home use because I was VPN-ing to a laptop in another office - I think it was microsoft netmeeting at the time, and then later changed jobs and the job had a desktop PC for everyone except two people (stupid!). I wanted a laptop with the number keypad and a large screen. I guess I had maybe three of those and my house PC now with a dumb number of cores is a thinline version of the same large pig. 

My mother and an uncle of mine who worked home office - no employer, he was a programmer and applied mathematician and consultant, also bought one. My mother managed to break down the case of her laptop quickly, with help from the dog, who would get her attention by scratching at the keyboard. The keys didn't just come off, they broke. I broke each of mine over time  but if a case split at a connector, I glued it or even taped it and eventually learned just to use an external mouse and keyboard at the same time. 

But the larger fat ones are definitely not tolerant of anything. A slip and a small drop with each of the big ones, just once, and the bottom of the keyboard side of the case starts to separate from the top and even just opening the screen is iffy. 

The big ones had two holes for harddrives, too, which made copying files off of an old PC to a new one pretty easy. They were perfect for a cheapo like me. The current one is an "envy 17T". I don't think anyone has any envy over HP Pcs, but nice try on their part. 

We have dell laptops for work and I treat them better than my own, but they are not great and our IT group would let you use the same PC for 9 years if you didn't speak up. Maybe one of my biggest laments at large employers - how bad IT has gotten in terms of staffing and organization. My laptop needs to be replaced, is at least a year past the interval that it's supposed to be used (nearing 6 years old) and I haven't requested an upgrade because the chance that they actually install the apps that are on my PC, some of which are specialized for our subgroup, is zero. 

Working at a much larger company in the past, we also were equipment intensive, had an onsite IT specialist and the company in their infinite wisdom went to a managed desktop and fired all of the onsite employees. My first call to talk about a proprietary mathematical software went to India who wanted to tell me about the Microsoft file system and had never heard of the software we used, and I eventually left. For every $1000 they saved per employee in IT, it probably cost us $20K in revenue, per person. idiots. But I think they abided by "if it's not measured, it didn't happen". 

Looked at ubuntu laptops yesterday just to buy an old machine with install already on it. Looks like the specialty is for sellers to get old machines and crank up the SSD and ram size to make the PC look good spec wise, but the underlying machines are 12 year old 4 core CPUs, like the 3.5 mhz era of PC cores. How demanding is ubuntu as far as CPU - is it far more efficient than windows?

d

Apparently, Microsoft really doesn't make that much money off Windows sales; their main source of income are things like Office 365, cloud services, etc. If they wanted to make money off W11 the upgrades to all the machines in use wouldn't be free.
Windows has been backwards compatible for older hardware for quite some time and there is a lot of very old software versions that still run on newer Windows. This move to the restrictions for W11 is based on enhanced security. 
Since it will still run, you aren't being forced to abandon W10 but there may be an increased security risk especially if you aren't the best at safe computing on the internet.
Over the years, Microsoft Windows has been criticized for poor security compared to Apple and Linux. Some of this criticism was justified but a lot of it was due to the numerous 3rd party hardware (drivers) and software suppliers, not Windows itself. Over the years Microsoft has taken measures to tighten the requirements for supplied 3rd party drivers. 
Windows is the large target by a long shot if you want to cause mayhem or financial scamming. They have been somewhat hobbled by existing structures and this departure gives them a mechanism to increase security.
Here is some data from StatCounter for September 2025 on market share: Windows 72%, Unknown 11%, Apple OSX and AppleOS 12%, Linux 3%, Chrome 1.5%. Windows has declined from over 90% over the years and obviously the others have increased to compensate.
My guess is that Linux Ubuntu will run not too badly on the older processors. Solid-state drives have been the largest single performance improvement device, especially if they are the NVME models that interface via by PCI express rather than the older SATA interface. Unfortunately, you will only find NVME slots on machines that will run W11. Increases in RAM speed and even CPUs tend to be a only a couple percent but over the years the couple of percents have added up.
The main issue with Ubuntu and other Linux variants is whether or not it will run the software you need to do your work and it requires some learning. If it won't do what you need to do there is no point in running it.

@DavidW

>How demanding is ubuntu as far as CPU - is it far more efficient than windows?

Linux is more efficient except for things that require proprietary drivers; e.g., GPUs, DirectX in gaming. Its kernel design is lightweight and modular; most drivers and services are loaded only when needed. That's one of the reasons Linux is used on 95% of servers and embedded systems. It's more efficient and stable. Windows has a heavy kernel with many built-in background services, telemetry, and compatibility layers.

@Bill Howatt,

That’s a thoughtful analysis, and I agree with much of what you said — especially about Microsoft’s broader business model and the real improvements in security over the years.

Where I see things differently is in who really benefits from these newer hardware requirements. While security features like TPM and Secure Boot are useful in theory, they don’t explain why so many perfectly capable computers suddenly fail the Windows 11 “test.” The practical effect is that millions of working machines are labeled obsolete — not because they can’t perform everyday tasks like web browsing, email, or office work, but because Windows itself has become more demanding.

Most of the people I hear from aren’t trying to run enterprise servers or guard state secrets. They just want a stable computer that does what it always did. And for those users, the rising hardware bar seems less about security and more about control — and perhaps convenience for Microsoft and hardware makers.

Linux distributions show lean a modern system can be. The same old machines that choke on Windows 11 run smoothly with Linux — fast, secure, and private, with no constant background processes or upgrade pressure.

So while I appreciate Microsoft’s motives and recognize its achievements, I still feel that the upgrade cycle mainly serves Windows, not the user.

Added later 10 min 58 s:

Cut & paste of what I posted elsewhere:

What’s driving most Windows upgrades today isn’t the user’s needs — it’s Microsoft’s escalating system requirements, driven largely by the operating system’s own bloat, not by what people actually do with their computers.

Let’s unpack that idea a bit:

1. Most users’ needs haven’t changed much

The average computer user in 2025 is still doing the same core tasks they were doing 15 years ago:

• Browsing the web

• Sending email

• Writing documents

• Watching videos

• Maybe using a spreadsheet or video call

None of that requires multi-core CPUs, TPM chips, Secure Boot, or massive GPUs. A 10-year-old computer can still handle those tasks perfectly — just not with modern Windows.

2. What has changed is Windows itself

Every new version of Windows adds:

• Heavier graphical effects (animations, blur, transparency, rounded corners)

• Constant background services (telemetry, indexing, updates, “widgets,” Copilot, etc.)

• Increased hardware “security” requirements (TPM 2.0, Secure Boot, etc.)

• New layers of abstraction for compatibility, cloud integration, and ads

All of that burns CPU cycles, RAM, and disk I/O — for zero gain in the tasks most users care about.

So people end up buying new computers not because Excel or Gmail demand more power — but because Windows itself does.

3. The Linux contrast

Linux desktops show just how much of that overhead is unnecessary.
On the same hardware:

• Linux boots faster and idles with single-digit CPU use.

• The same “everyday” apps (Firefox, LibreOffice, Thunderbird) run just as smoothly.

• You can even run it on a 15-year-old laptop and still get a snappy experience.

That shows the truth: modern hardware is overpowered for everyday tasks — it’s Windows that’s inefficient.

4. The hidden cost

When the OS drives hardware upgrades:

• Millions of usable computers get scrapped early (e-waste).

• Users are pressured into buying new devices that provide no real improvement.

• Microsoft maintains control by forcing hardware lock-in under the banner of “security.”

Meanwhile, Linux distributions continue to support older machines gracefully.

5. The bigger picture

You could say that:

> “Windows upgrades are mostly about feeding Windows, not empowering users.”

In contrast, Linux — especially lightweight versions — puts your CPU back to work for you, not the operating system.

Why doesn't someone just manufacture a Linux machine to begin with including all the great benefits? That would save a lot of horsing around trying to retro fit old Windows machines?

If you're planning to resurrect an old computer in the closet with a mechanical hard drive, adding an SSD makes all the difference. Boot times can be reduced to seconds, and things will load almost instantly when clicked.

There are brand names and budget ones with names you may not recognize. How do you decide?

• OS / daily use → Spend a bit more on Samsung, Crucial, WD, or Kingston KC-series.

• Cold storage / backups / light duty → Budget SSDs are fine, but don’t expect them to last or perform well under heavy writes.

Details if interested:
https://www.woodcentral.com/-/peter/why-some-ssds-cost-more-what-budget-drives-leave-out/